About the A10

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
1

After the Cincy win and recruit news I went looking at the A10 standings. We always use the Cincy game as a visit for potential recruits and I am sure that atmosphere has helped us sign a few kids. What team in the A10 becomes the game we bring recruits in to watch? My first thoughts were X maybe GW or St. Joes, but will our student body really get excited about those? Will any of those games be a lock to be televised?

At this point I went looking at Conf RPIs… CUSA is #9 mainly due to the bottom feeders in the league. The A10 which we have been sold on being more solid from top to bottom… #13! The highest RPI ranked team they have is GW at 71 (based on early out of conference wins). ALL the other schools are 84 or lower. This is very depressing.

It seems to me we have a number of challenges to make the A10 a move that doesn’t kill the success this program has seen in the last 10 yeras.

We have got to line up high profile out of conference home games. We need this to get the students involved and to have a game to sell to recruits. We also need this to make more of a case of making the tourny. The days of winning in the conference to make up for bad early losses is gone. We will have to win early and dominate the A10. Lutz’s teams have a history of playing to the level of the opponent, this will have to end.

If all this comes to pass Lutz WILL leave. No way he sticks around. From that point we will simply be a mid-major, in a mid-major conference that other coaches stop at as a jumping point to the big leagues.

The more I look at this move the more it worries me from a money aspect, interest from students, interest from the community, recruits… everything! We are a one pony show. We don’t have football to fall back on. Our basketball program has to be the marquee money generating piece of the AD and I fear that we are on our way to losing what we have and that our current administration is out of touch with many of these fears and concerns.

2

Where did the A-10 finish in the conference RPI standings the year the St. Joe’s made the final 4 ? I think everyone would agree that the A-10 is somewhat down this year. I have heard several analyst say that it’s a young leauge this year.

Let’s just hope that a few years down the road the A-10 can creep back up to be the #9 or #10 ranked leauge when some of these teams start maturing.

3

We need to dominate the A-10 like Cinci has C-USA. If we do that, we’ll be ranked in the top 20 consistently and continue to bring in very good talent. Students and locals will be excited. And we’ll need some high profile games, even if they are in the downtown arena. Of course, we have to market the heck out our winning program.

4

Not sure where they finished last year, but I don’t think you can count on an undefeated team to help out conference RPIs. A conference like the ACC or Big East I think you can count on a few sweet 16 teams maybe a final 4 team every year, but looking at the A10 I don’t think you can ever “expect” a final four repesentative. I did find this site http://www.richkern.com/vb/rankings/RPIHistory.asp
It shows some of the past rankings of teams, so the A10 does appear a little down this year compared to past years… but certainly not a power conference ever. As I said in my first post who becomes our Cincy in the A10?

5

Lefty I agree we need to dominate the A10 like Cincy dominated CUSA, the difference is though CUSA had some marquee teams. The louisvilles, us, memphis, south florida for a time, marquette. Does the A10 have that? Will they have that?

Your other point about marketing our team. Do you have faith that our AD can do that? I don’t think we have EVER done a good job of that. In fact I think our program has succeeded in spite of our AD. What will make that change?

I am just trying to make myself feel better, but everytime I think about it I feel worse.

6

Yes, the A-10 is down this year… mainly because it has a lot of young players. But just last year it produced two elite 8 teams and the national player of the year. It wouldn’t be our first choice of conferences to play in, but given our options it was our best choice. I think it will be better next year, but I am somewhat worried about fan support too… hopefully if we can become the team to beat in the league like lefty said, that will create some interest.

7

Last season, 2003-2004, Conference USA was fifth in Ken Pomeroy’s RPI while the Atlantic 10 finished seventh. The non-conference SOS for the leagues was sixth for C-USA and first for the A-10.

Figures for this season are Conference USA ninth and thirteenth for the Atlantic 10, the non-conference SOS is thirteenth for C-USA and again first for the A-10.

[SIZE=2]2004 Conference USA Basketball Standings
RPI rank: 5, Non conference SOS rank: 6, Non conference record: 100-49 vs. Division 1
Cincinnati, RPI 11, SOS 23
Memphis, RPI 32, SOS 65
Alabama Birmingham, RPI 33, SOS 35
Charlotte, RPI 34, SOS 58
DePaul, RPI 37, SOS 51
Louisville, RPI 24, SOS 16
Saint Louis, RPI 64, SOS 50
Marquette, RPI 83, SOS 76
Texas Christian, RPI 120, SOS 49
Southern Mississippi, RPI 123, SOS 71
East Carolina, RPI 151, SOS 129
Tulane, RPI 181, SOS 106
Houston, RPI 187, SOS 86
South Florida, RPI 222, SOS 94

[b]2005 Conference USA Basketball Standings, as of 2/9/05
RPI rank: 9, Non conference SOS rank: 13, Non conference record: 106-58 vs. Division 1[/b]
Louisville, RPI 18, SOS 76
DePaul, RPI 42, SOS 126
Charlotte, RPI 37, SOS 119
Cincinnati, RPI 22, SOS 41
Alabama Birmingham, RPI 49, SOS 113
Memphis, RPI 137, SOS 116
Houston, RPI 96, SOS 132
Marquette, RPI 62, SOS 83
Texas Christian, RPI 95, SOS 92
South Florida, RPI 195, SOS 170
Saint Louis, RPI 227, SOS 59
Tulane, RPI 260, SOS 217
East Carolina, RPI 194, SOS 24
Southern Mississippi, RPI 254, SOS 222

2004 Atlantic 10 Conference Basketball Standings
RPI rank: 7, Non conference SOS rank: 1, Non conference record: 84-59 vs. Division 1
St. Joseph’s, RPI 3, SOS 46
Dayton, RPI 40, SOS 84
George Washington, RPI 74, SOS 80
Xavier, RPI 35, SOS 43
Richmond, RPI 47, SOS 38
Temple, RPI 100, SOS 77
Rhode Island, RPI 82, SOS 89
Duquesne, RPI 162, SOS 114
LaSalle, RPI 188, SOS 87
Massachusetts, RPI 174, SOS 81
St. Bonaventure, RPI 198, SOS 59
Fordham, RPI 211, SOS 56

2005 Atlantic 10 Conference Basketball Standings, as of 2/9/05
RPI rank: 13, Non conference SOS rank: 1, Non conference record: 53-78 vs. Division 1
Saint Joseph’s, RPI 84, SOS 81
Temple, RPI 94, SOS 56
George Washington, RPI 71, SOS 177
Richmond, RPI 87, SOS 103
Dayton, RPI 113, SOS 150
Massachusetts, RPI 111, SOS 47
Xavier, RPI 178, SOS 188
Fordham, RPI 187, SOS 117
Duquesne, RPI 272, SOS 186
Rhode Island, RPI 297, SOS 179
LaSalle, RPI 243, SOS 167
Saint Bonaventure, RPI 320, SOS 231[/SIZE]

8

St Joe’s was no flash in the pan. Martelli got ever recruit he wanted. I would expect them to rise again soon.

9

Doesn’t Indiana come here next year? If so, this could be a big draw, especially if they bring in a new big name coach. Who knows what will happen with them. They are not that good but they have great tradition and people recognize that.

10

I don’t see why you need a big rival to land recruits. Maybe it helps to have a big game atmosphere to bring recruits to, but…I don’t see Memphis having any huge rivalries and they’ve recruited a ton of (questionable) players.

It all goes back to winning - we win like crazy in the A-10, we’ll be fine. We start to get in 5 way ties in the A-10 or finish 3rd or 4th and we’re in trouble. Also, Xavier, St. Joe’s and Dayton are all gonna become good games/rivalries. Not to mention Temple.

11

Rivalries in the A-10 will be difficult to develop by only playing once yearly other than your 3 mirror teams.

12
[i]Originally posted by WBNiner[/i]@Feb 9 2005, 09:13 AM [b]At this point I went looking at Conf RPIs... CUSA is #9 mainly due to the bottom feeders in the league. The A10 which we have been sold on being more solid from top to bottom... #13! The highest RPI ranked team they have is GW at 71 (based on early out of conference wins). ALL the other schools are 84 or lower. This is very depressing.

It seems to me we have a number of challenges to make the A10 a move that doesn’t kill the success this program has seen in the last 10 yeras.

[/b]


I hope everyone here remembers to look at more than the current season of the A10.

Thanks to those who are providing some previous history for the A10. Its not fair to compare either conference based on one season. IMO, at least 3-5 years worth of data is needed to verify that one is better than the other.

I still don’t see where the A10 is going to kill this program. Without a football team, the A10 is best available option.

Its been repeated ad nauseum:

Why doesn’t Charlotte (have/want to start) football?

Hell, I don’t why. IF the school had started even 2 years ago, could Charlotte have justified their way to the Big East? Very possibly. But the school didn’t & now “it is what it is”.

Instead of whining about the lack of football or that the A10 move will really suck, why don’t fans try to find to promote what the immediate future is for this school?

I don’t know the A10 teams either, but I’d rather try to find a way to start rivalry with those schools than wonder why Charlotte doesn’t have football OR consider what the future would’ve been if the school stayed in C-USA OR worry that the A10 move is gonna suck.

13

While the A-10 is a step down, it’s the best option we have at this point. Staying in C-USA would have been a mistake. Increased travel for teams rated below the A-10. I think we made the right move. Some seem to think our next stop is the Big East after they split up over football. It appears that BE football schools -Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, and new members Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida will split off. They will try to lure Penn State from the Big 10 (or Big 11) and Notre Dame to get to 9 or 10. If not those, they will look at Temple, Navy, Army, ECU, UCF, Marshall or UMass (if they move up to I-A).
As for us joining the remaining 7 (not including ND) Big East basketball schools, I’d say we would be choice #9 or #10 and don’t see it happening. Here’s why:

Villanova (Catholic-Augustinians), Providence (Catholic-Dominican Fathers), Georgetown (Catholic-Jesuit), Seton Hall (Archdiocese of Newark), St John’s (Catholic-Vincentian Comm), and former C-USA members DePaul (Catholic-Vincentian Fathers) and Marquette (Catholic-Jesuit) will likely pick other A-10 members over us. At the top of their list would be Dayton (Catholic-Marianist), Duquesne (Catholic-Spiritans), Fordham (Catholic-Jesuit), LaSalle (Catholic-Christian Brothers), St Bonaventure (Catholic-Fransiscans), St Joseph’s (Catholic- Jesuit) Xavier (Catholic-Jesuit) or ex C-USA member St Louis (Catholic-Jesuit).

I think we then battle George Washington (large Private school) for the next spot. I just don’t think it will happen. We need to seriously be exploring other options and we need to be doing it now.

14

I’m not reading much into conference RPIs this season. Conference USA seems to be headed toward 5-6 entries in the Big Dance according to most prognostigators. In fact, here’s how Joe Lunardi breaks down his most recent “Bracketology” as regards multiple-bid conferences with current RPI ranking:

[b]# 4 Big East (7)

9 C-USA (6)

2 Pac 10 (5)

1 ACC (5)

#3 Big 12 (5)

5 Big Ten (5)

6 SEC (4)

7 WCC (2)

13 A-10 (2)

8 MVC (2)

10 WAC (2)[/b]

I still think the A-10 will be a good fit for the Niners. Afterall, Conference USA never lived up to all its hype until last season, the Marquette 2003 Final Four-run notwithstanding.

As far as which game you bring the recruits too, here’s something on how Xavier does it:

Muskies show off for pair of recruits

And, let’s be honest, most blue chippers today don’t care about conference championships, the Big Dance, Final Fours, or National Championships. They are looking to the NBA and how quickly you can get them there. If I’m recruiting a guy to play for Charlotte and the A-10, then I point out:

  1. The A-10 has had 3 National Players of the Year over the past decade
  2. The A-10 is historically a multi-bid conference
  3. The A-10 is well represented in the NBA
  4. The A-10 has its own TV network as well as ESPN coverage
  5. You get to visit New York City, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, etc. (though I’ll admit that a trip to Olean, NY, probably isn’t on anyone’s list!)
  6. The NBA is right here in Charlotte with the Bobcats

Anyway, my 2 cents…

15
[b]You get to visit New York City, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, etc. (though I'll admit that a trip to Olean, NY, probably isn't on anyone's list!)[/b]

Heck, Charlotte’s already had to sell recruits on going to Hattiesburg…Olean, NY can’t be worse…can it?

If I’m a recruit, I’ll take NYC, DC & Phily over Louisville, Milw & Memphis.

Of course, Cincy is a wash (XU for UC).

16

I don’t know if anybody mentioned this yet but it looks like the A-10 has the #1 SOS outside the conference, maybe they bit off more than they could chew this year.

17
[b]Of course, Cincy is a wash (XU for UC).[/b]
gruehls, didn't you tell us that Xavier was on the bad side of the city?
[b]I don't know if anybody mentioned this yet but it looks like the A-10 has the #1 SOS outside the conference, maybe they bit off more than they could chew this year.[/b]
They had the number one SOS last season too. Atlantic 10 teams have played this season: Dayton – Cincinnati, DePaul, Saint Louis, Vanderbilt Dusquene – Boston College, Pittsburgh, Santa Clara, West Virginia Fordham – Boston University, Villanova George Washington – Maryland, Michigan State, Wake Forest, West Virginia LaSalle – Cincinnati, Southern California, Villanova Massachusetts – Boston College, Boston University, Connecticut, Florida State, Gonzaga, Miami Rhode Island – Boston University, DePaul, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall Richmond – Alabama Birmingham, Arizona, Colorado, Pittsburgh, Seton Hall, South Florida, Virginia, Wake Forest Saint Bonaventure – Syracuse, West Virginia Saint Joseph’s – Kansas, Ohio State Temple – Alabama, Arizona State, Auburn, Duke, Georgetown, Maryland, South Carolina, Villanova, Wake Forest Xavier – Cincinnati, Creighton, Iowa State, Mississippi State, Tennessee
18

How in the heck does Memphis have an RPI of 32, they’re friggin’ 13-10! I don’t know where this formula comes from but if they make it into the tournament it’s going to be nothing short of horrible.

19

By what source? Monday Jerry Palm had them at 138.

20

Well ya’ll have eased some of my fears. I do agree with Zone though, this will not be the last shakedown. Hopefully the AD will be thinking towards the future and have a plan in place for the next realignment. I hate to utter the evil word here… but hopefully the new chancellor can atleast consider football and help us out with the next move we have to make.