Can we get the facts straight about the Lee elbow?

[QUOTE=HappyCamper49;158882]Haha, good cover guys. Those A10 referees, they may wear zebra stripes on the court but off the court they are all stand up comedians.

ā€œWhat do you get when you pull a guy down to the court by the jersey?ā€

drumroll

ā€œA victory!ā€[/QUOTE]

Good call Happyā€¦no pun intendedā€¦

[QUOTE=NinerNation Inc.;158878]someone should tell him calling a technical foul in your head and not telling anyone, waiting for the review and then making your call is not the samething as making a call before the review.[/QUOTE]

LOLā€¦great postā€¦

I have had hours to digest this piece of shit game in my head, as well as seeing the replay about 400 times and it is clear to me what the ultimate issue isā€¦

sureā€¦Lee lost his coolā€¦he did something that he shouldnā€™t have doneā€¦and calling a tech on him would be ok in most instancesā€¦

howeverā€¦

THERE WAS NO TECH CALLED UNTIL AFTER THE PLAY WAS REVIEWED.

Who the hell does this ref think he is foolingā€¦does he not know that the game was televised? There was NO tech called prior to those idiots going to the monitor, and you canā€™t go to a monitor to make an INITIAL call.

WE GOT SCREWED!!! Plain and simple!!! I hope those refs get run back to the rec leagues they came fromā€¦

It is really unhealthy for me to be as emotionally invested in this team as I am. I was screaming so loud my dog ran under the bed. :frowning:

DA was fouled. Play was technically dead. Hall grabbed Leemire and Leemire retaliated. Lutz's complaint in post game was that they DID NOT CALL THE TECHNICAL FOUL ON LEEMIRE until they looked at the tape. I'm assuming that the officials cannot call a Technical foul based on reviewing a replay...based on Lutz's frustration.

So there were two fouls on GW and a tech on Leemire, yet only one foul was assessed. What is the right ruling on a dead ball since Alexander had already been fouled?

No they canā€™t. They claim they looked at the tape to see if Leemire swung a fist which would be an automatic ejection. However it was never called nor announced until after seeing the tape.

I expect that Charlotte will file a formal complaint and a very justified one. That was the worst display of refereeing in America.

Here is an example of the posters on espn board saying it was all Goldwires fault, and the refs had it right:

He did grab his jersey from behind ...[b] after[/b] he got hit upside the head ... and then he got elbow in the face again. Seems like those two acts were equal ... oh, wait ...
That's odd ... just watched the replay again on CBS. Two players tangled up, elbow to the face, jersey grab, elbow to the face.

Might want to schedule an eye appointment. Sorry to hear about your apparent glaucoma.

I thought the initial whistle had nothing to do with the Goldwire/Hall fiasco, but was on whoever fouled the rebounder(Alexander?) on GW. Then all the drama and refs got sidetrackedā€¦unbelievable but since it happened to us I believe it.

After watchign the replay many times, this was one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

YOU dopnā€™t let an official end the game as this one did.

Leemire was fouled and pulled WITHOUT the ball, should have been an intentional foul we get two shots and the ball. Yes he threw an elbow, but after he was pulled from behind twice.

BS call, and BS refs, I have never seen a game end like this one, except maybe the Wake game a few weeks agoe.

We are jinxxed.

Only good thing out of this game is it is obvious we can play with GW and I look fo r us to win the a 10 tourney.

Washington Post reports that the refs immediately had a phone call talking to the A-10 home office after the game. Is this normal ?

But in general we got hurt on both the regular time and overtime by a weak side rebound, it happened twice, that cost us the game. GW made what ever plays they needed to win.

Washington Post reports that the refs immediately had a phone call talking to the A-10 home office after the game. Is this normal ?

But in general we got hurt on both the regular time and overtime by a weak side rebound, it happened twice, that cost us the game. GW made what ever plays they needed to win.

The A-10 probably wants to know why the tech was never signaled. If it was never signaled or mentioned to anyone before reviewing the tape then Connolly should not have called one afterwards because the tape canā€™t be used as a criteria in accessing or verifying a foul.

Bottom line is the refs blew this one. Connolly should have called a double tech but he probably didnā€™t see Hallā€™s choke job nor did he have common sense to think ā€œgee I wonder why the kid threw an elbow?ā€

I still donā€™t see how the foul can be on Hall and Alexander shoots the free throws. (of course Hall did intentionally foul Leemire). Alexander grabbed the rebound and dribbled across the lane. Hall yanked on Leemireā€™s jersey pulling him backwards. After the officials look at the replay, PA guy says Hall is charged with a foul and Leemire a technical. DA then shoots 2. Makes no sense at all.

Who cares, if Leemire doesnā€™t fight back, then we just shoot the fts.

Because making a call or not is a judgement thing, and the order of the free throws a procedure thing.

**** the T, it happened, we should get penalized for it.

I want to know why DA shot two dead ball foul shots. GW should have gone the length of the floor on their last possession.

[QUOTE=Powerbait;158983]Who cares, if Leemire doesnā€™t fight back, then we just shoot the fts.[/QUOTE]
Bingo.

I personally think it should have been a double tech. But, if youā€™re Goldwire, youā€™ve got to know the situation. Itā€™s hard not lose your cool when somebdy twice your size grabs and jerks you bakward. I think he was basically trying to get the guy to let go of him, but you canā€™t react with elbows.

You let the refs sort it out, watch as DA hopefully ices it, then look at him during the post-game handshakes and say see you in a week motherf***er.

Sounds like the refs may have called the possession wrong, ie., should of been Tā€™s first and then DA ftā€™s, meaning that GW would have had to gone the length of the court. Since GW was number 6 and we were playing on their home court, we need to go back to history for a minute:

A few years ago a reporter wrote about 2 of the worst calls in the history of college basketball, one was I think in a Big ten game and the other a call against Charlotte in the 80ā€™s.

Charlotte in the 80ā€™s was playing at #1 Kentucky at the time, I think if I remember correctly, not sure the exact events, but Charlotte up by 1, with a few seconds left in the game Dinkins has rebound under the basket and it looks like Charlotte has locked up the upset, as he is shoved out of bounds by Kentucky player to stop the clock. Instead of Charlotte being awarded FTā€™s, Kentucky either got ftā€™s or was awarded the ball and won the game.

Wow. I forgot about that UK game. Dinkins was pushed out of bounds and we lost possesion the best I remember.

The worst had to be our losses in Chapel Hill. I was there for that and ā€œbiasedā€ would be putting it kindly. The arrogance of the officials was the most frustrating part of it.

If I remember correctly Rex Chapman was the player that pushed Dink out of bounds. He did apologize to Dinkins after the game.

[QUOTE=NinerLoudNProud;159001]Because making a call or not is a judgement thing, and the order of the free throws a procedure thing.

**** the T, it happened, we should get penalized for it.

I want to know why DA shot two dead ball foul shots. GW should have gone the length of the floor on their last possession.[/QUOTE]

I wonder about that also. It seems that the dead ball foul shots from the tech should have been shot, and then the personal foul shots by DA. Isnā€™t a missed 2nd foul shot always supposed to be in play unless time has expired? It seems that GW was given an extra possesion. I think there has been some rule change in the past year or so concerning possesions and techs. The technical doesnā€™t automatically mean change of possesion. I would like to hear the rule concerning this.

Mire Wire fā€™ed up. We had two shots coming with a 3 point lead and 5.7 seconds left. Do not throw an elbow no matter what. He cost his team the game.

ā€œIf I remember correctly Rex Chapman was the player that pushed Dink out of bounds. He did apologize to Dinkins after the game.ā€

No - it was Ed Davender. We were behind a point with several seconds to play. Dinkins went to get the inbounds pass and was shoved out of bounds. I think they called Dink for traveling.

A few seconds prior to that Jeff West missed a shot that could have put us ahead.

The Leemire thing is over and done with. I want Judy on the horn tomorrow making sure we get an apology from the league and the officials reprimanded.

These things come in handy during the A10 tournament, which is 10000 times more important than a silly game against a flash in the pan program with a coach whoā€™ll never roam the sidelines in foggy bottom again.

After watching the replay over 25 times the last 24 hours, hereā€™s what I saw:

Deā€™Angelo gets the rebound and was fouled by someone (not Hall). The refs then rushed in to break up the altercation between Hall and Lee. Hall grabbed Leeā€™s jersey to keep him from getting to the ball. Leeā€™s first elbow appeared to be inadvertant (i.e. he was just trying to free himself to get to the ball). After Hall figures out where heā€™s at, he then hits Lee in the back of the head and Lee responds with an intentional elbow. I still think that no foul was called on Hall. If there was one, Lee would have shot the free throws instead of 'Gelo. Also, Iā€™m not sure on the possession deal with the technical. It may be different for players versus a coach/bench getting one. When the coach gets one, I donā€™t think you lose possession if you have the ball. The other team shoots free throws, and then you get the ball back.

What the refā€™s decided: Deā€™Angelo got fouled, so he shot the two shots he was due since we were in the double bonus. Then GW gets to shoot their shots for the technical. GW then gets the ball because of the technical or because they have the possession arrow in their favor.

What I think should have happened: There should have been double technicals on Lee and Hall. After each team shot their free throws, 'Gelo should have then been on the line to shoot his two shots. Play would have proceeded per usual upon the making or missing of 'Geloā€™s free throws. Worst case scenario from that is that we would have been tied if we had missed all four of the free throws, and GW would have had the ball. More likely, we would have been up two or three instead of the one we actually were up by after the officials screwed up.