I call it thread terrorism.[/quote]Then we must immediately give the mods the power they need to stop it. Everyone please turn over the passwords to their email accounts.
clt learned today that governor pat gets $15/ hr and free cheeseburgers at mcd.
I call it thread terrorism.[/quote]Then we must immediately give the mods the power they need to stop it. Everyone please turn over the passwords to their email accounts.[/quote]
By Allah we shall destroy this thread if he wills it.
He should if they dont bother raising pay some more.[/quote]
Yeah, I voted for McCrory and now I’m pissed about that. You could make the same amount as a teacher working at McDonalds.[/quote]
If they give them $15 an hour being a fry guy at McD’s is a better career choice.
My wife is a teacher and it is an honorable profession that will become economically not viable if the teacher pay stays were it is relative to the cost to attend college.[/quote]
I know your wife is a teacher, but I have friends who are as well and a daughter about to be. I think you are really exaggerating here. Will teachers get “rich”? No, but its still no comparison to working at McD’s. Thats ridiculous.[/quote]
Note I said IF they give them $15 an hour mcds is a better career choice. 31,200 a year based On a 40 hr week. So in 2014 they did bump teacher pay for first yr teachers to 33k. My wife after teaching for nearly a decade makes 36k. Based on the escalating costs of college tuition and paying student loans I stand by my statement. The future of the teaching profession is with out a doubt in jeopardy in NC. With the cost of attending plus potential student loan interest and the pay given to teachers it just isn’t a wise economic choice unless you plan on marrying someone that can provide for you.
As far as hours worked it greatly depends on grade and experience in my wife’s 9 years she has taught 3 grades, focus on math and reading for AIG as well as lower performers. What that means is almost every year entirely new lesson plans. Each principle is different in expectations on how detailed those need to be. Her first principle didn’t care second one expects fairly detailed ones. Then there is after school programs. My wife leads robotics. That’s a couple hours a week plus weekend competitions 4 times a year. Add in if the teacher is a grade level leader those are additional hours in meetings with school or county leadership. I haven’t even mentioned the required professional development. So perhaps not all teachers work a full 40 or 50 hrs but based on their position and responsibilities they certainly could. I would say on average my wife clocks in around 43 or 44. Which equates to 15.73 an hour and oh yeah the health insurance which used to be great now sucks.
Also they don’t get 2 months off. They get two months of unpaid time during which their contract can not be renewed. Also the teachers end up bringing in supplies on their own for kids. The school might have a great pat that covers it, but every year I end up paying for two or three kids to go on fields trips or need supplies. My wife would probably pay the out of her pocket of I wasn’t around which is just another drain on the low salary they bring in.
My wife is getting her masters in May which will bump her up into the 40s. So after ten years in a profession with an advanced degree she has finally broken 40k.[/quote]
My mom is a teacher in rural Upstate NY and was offered a position at CMS last fall. Cost of living index there is identical to Charlotte She would have taken a $16,000 pay cut. She said she has no idea how people can teach here and afford to live.
He should if they dont bother raising pay some more.[/quote]
Yeah, I voted for McCrory and now I’m pissed about that. You could make the same amount as a teacher working at McDonalds.[/quote]
I don’t remember us paying teachers like bankers before McCrory was elected 2 and a half years ago. Pretty sure if you want to lay the underpaying of teachers in this state on someone’s door McCrory would have a relatively smaller pile than Purdue, Easley and Hunt.
He should if they dont bother raising pay some more.[/quote]
Yeah, I voted for McCrory and now I’m pissed about that. You could make the same amount as a teacher working at McDonalds.[/quote]
I don’t remember us paying teachers like bankers before McCrory was elected 2 and a half years ago. Pretty sure if you want to lay the underpaying of teachers in this state on someone’s door McCrory would have a relatively smaller pile than Purdue, Easley and Hunt.[/quote]
Don’t think I would put Hunt in that list if you want to seem credible.
He should if they dont bother raising pay some more.[/quote]
Yeah, I voted for McCrory and now I’m pissed about that. You could make the same amount as a teacher working at McDonalds.[/quote]
I don’t remember us paying teachers like bankers before McCrory was elected 2 and a half years ago. Pretty sure if you want to lay the underpaying of teachers in this state on someone’s door McCrory would have a relatively smaller pile than Purdue, Easley and Hunt.[/quote]
Don’t think I would put Hunt in that list if you want to seem credible.[/quote]
I was a public school student during Hunt’s second tenure. Our teachers were underpaid then and they are underpaid now because the taxpayers in this state are happy to underpay teachers to not raise their taxes. That’s all there is to it. Our state doesn’t worry about teacher availability or retention. There’s plenty of UNC System Schools of Education graduates waiting in line to make $32k.Supply has always been greater than demand in NC for teachers.
They get a 10 month contract which they can elect to have paid out over 12 months - they are getting paid for 10 months of work and go unpaid for 2 months. Some counties actually do not offer a 12 month pay option. If a teacher works in a year round school then they do actually have a 12 month contract and make more. If my wife could work during the summer and make more and receive a 3 or 4 week bank of PTO she could take when she elects rather than be dictated to she would take the trade off in a heart beat. As it is if she gets sick she has to pay the sub out of her pocket and then take the days that she is told to. Want to take a week off in April to see family or go on a vacation? Better plan on paying whoever has to work for you in that time frame. The summer off sounds great and it is a benefit - but people don’t quite understand what that really means and the expectations around what is done during the summer. It isn’t three months (all though you make that distinction many don’t) - it is closer to 8 weeks and during that 8 weeks they typically have professional development session they need to attend and most dedicated teachers start going to their classroom and working at least half days 2 weeks before they are required - again for the same amount the shitty teacher gets.
The teachers that arrive at 8 and leave at 4 are the ones with a slack principle and have been teaching the same grade and subject year over year and have taken zero additional roles at their school And you know what sucks about teaching? They make the EXACT same amount as the one doing all of the other stuff sometimes even more - unless it’s a coach of a sport and then maybe they make an extra $250. Which is a good indication of why the education system in NC is in poor shape - how would you feel if no matter how hard you worked the slack ass dude next to you got the exact same raise as you did?
I am not sure why you are so quick to defend the value our state puts on the profession when national studies show we are bringing up the rear in valuing teachers. My mom was a teacher, my sister is and my wife is. I said a million times it is an honorable profession and the people that go into are blessings to society (for the most part - looking at you shitty teachers). The fact is though that this state does not value or reward the profession in a way that makes it a profession that is worthy of the cost of the tuition it takes to be in it especially if the person is going into debt to get the degree. My wife has told me multiple times that if she had not met me (or I assume someone else at a equal or better level) she would not be able to stay in the profession. My sister had roomates for years before she got married. My mom was married to a airline captain. The fact is NC is at the bottom of the barrel when recognizing and rewarding those that choose to go into teaching. It isn’t about being wealthy it is about making ends meet. Is it right that a teacher that is a single mom qualifies for food stamps? Or that after working a decade in a profession you have all of 3K to show for it? And it really doesnt matter if you were a good teacher or a crappy teacher over that 10 years you still get the same amount?
The govenor actually did help get some money back into the professional after 5 or so years of zero pay increases while the health insurance got worse. After threatening to take masters pay away they left it in place so that is good. My wife said the folks over in the educatiuon department have said new students coming into the college of education is down something like 22% so at some point state government will have to either fix this or be prepared to increase class size to insane amounts.
I am not assaulting the profession - I am assaulting the value the government of NC puts on the profession.
Here is some data: http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/NEA-Rankings-and-Estimates-2013-2014.pdf Focus on pages 18-23 to see where we really suck
Sorry to have totally derailed the thread.
I am not “defending” our state on this matter at all (I agree that starting pay should be a little higher and increases should be larger, based off of performance) but at the same time I despise seeing exaggerations about how bad teachers have it. As for the “they are paid for 10 months of work” argument you keep making, then fine stop comparing teachers “annual salaries” with jobs that require actually working full time all 12 months of the year. You can’t argue it both ways. If you want to compare teachers “10 month salary”, then use other profession’s annual salaries, minus 2 months (16.6%). Also, I am sorry you are never going to win the “time off” argument (ie; summers, spring break, Christmas). Most of us that have kids (between Kindergarten and 12th grad) aren’t able to take vacations anytime other than the summer either. Sorry, I am not one of those parents who will take kids out of school to go on vacation for a week. I have no sympathy for "only " getting 8 weeks off in the summer, in addition to a week of Spring Break and 1-2 weeks off at Christmas.
I for one am thankful for the crappy teacher pay. If not for that guys like me and JWA might not have found wives. ;D
[quote=“919R, post:29, topic:29563”]I am not “defending” our state on this matter at all (I agree that starting pay should be a little higher and increases should be larger, based off of performance) but at the same time I despise seeing exaggerations about how bad teachers have it. As for the “they are paid for 10 months of work” argument you keep making, then fine stop comparing teachers “annual salaries” with jobs that require actually working full time all 12 months of the year. You can’t argue it both ways. If you want to compare teachers “10 month salary”, then use other profession’s annual salaries, minus 2 months (16.6%). Also, I am sorry you are never going to win the “time off” argument (ie; summers, spring break, Christmas). Most of us that have kids (between Kindergarten and 12th grad) aren’t able to take vacations anytime other than the summer either. Sorry, I am not one of those parents who will take kids out of school to go on vacation for a week. I have no sympathy for "only " getting 8 weeks off in the summer, in addition to a week of Spring Break and 1-2 weeks off at Christmas.[/quote]mostly agree with you, but I think paying for performance is difficult. All schools are not equal. You can be a great teacher in a shit school and your results will look terrible. meanwhile yiu can be a bad teacher at a great school and look awesome.
I had some truly bad teachers in high school that didn’t really do much other than show us movies and give us group projects, but Weddington is high income with high parental involvement so it masked the teachers that were just there collecting a check.
[quote=“Niner National, post:31, topic:29563”][quote=“919R, post:29, topic:29563”]I am not “defending” our state on this matter at all (I agree that starting pay should be a little higher and increases should be larger, based off of performance) but at the same time I despise seeing exaggerations about how bad teachers have it. As for the “they are paid for 10 months of work” argument you keep making, then fine stop comparing teachers “annual salaries” with jobs that require actually working full time all 12 months of the year. You can’t argue it both ways. If you want to compare teachers “10 month salary”, then use other profession’s annual salaries, minus 2 months (16.6%). Also, I am sorry you are never going to win the “time off” argument (ie; summers, spring break, Christmas). Most of us that have kids (between Kindergarten and 12th grad) aren’t able to take vacations anytime other than the summer either. Sorry, I am not one of those parents who will take kids out of school to go on vacation for a week. I have no sympathy for "only " getting 8 weeks off in the summer, in addition to a week of Spring Break and 1-2 weeks off at Christmas.[/quote]mostly agree with you, but I think paying for performance is difficult. All schools are not equal. You can be a great teacher in a s*** school and your results will look terrible. meanwhile yiu can be a bad teacher at a great school and look awesome.
I had some truly bad teachers in high school that didn’t really do much other than show us movies and give us group projects, but Weddington is high income with high parental involvement so it masked the teachers that were just there collecting a check.[/quote]
I agree on all counts. Weddington, huh?
[quote=“919R, post:32, topic:29563”][quote=“Niner National, post:31, topic:29563”][quote=“919R, post:29, topic:29563”]I am not “defending” our state on this matter at all (I agree that starting pay should be a little higher and increases should be larger, based off of performance) but at the same time I despise seeing exaggerations about how bad teachers have it. As for the “they are paid for 10 months of work” argument you keep making, then fine stop comparing teachers “annual salaries” with jobs that require actually working full time all 12 months of the year. You can’t argue it both ways. If you want to compare teachers “10 month salary”, then use other profession’s annual salaries, minus 2 months (16.6%). Also, I am sorry you are never going to win the “time off” argument (ie; summers, spring break, Christmas). Most of us that have kids (between Kindergarten and 12th grad) aren’t able to take vacations anytime other than the summer either. Sorry, I am not one of those parents who will take kids out of school to go on vacation for a week. I have no sympathy for "only " getting 8 weeks off in the summer, in addition to a week of Spring Break and 1-2 weeks off at Christmas.[/quote]mostly agree with you, but I think paying for performance is difficult. All schools are not equal. You can be a great teacher in a s*** school and your results will look terrible. meanwhile yiu can be a bad teacher at a great school and look awesome.
I had some truly bad teachers in high school that didn’t really do much other than show us movies and give us group projects, but Weddington is high income with high parental involvement so it masked the teachers that were just there collecting a check.[/quote]
I agree on all counts. Weddington, huh?[/quote]'05
Certainly the amount of time is a benefit - but it comes at the price of not being able to take time off or get sick without having to pay for your replacement. As for pay it is just illustrating the challenge for teachers. Many actually take jobs waiting tables during the summer or other jobs (which negates your time off arguement). Paying for performance and responsibility is something that really needs to happen - but can be difficult to peg since parental and resources play such an important role.
Once your daughter starts working in a school we will see if you change your tune. It will give you a peak inside the profession and the craziness that surround it. Something like 22% of new teachers quit within the first 3 years so if she makes it through that then she has made it through the toughest part. My wife considered it after the her first two years.
Certainly the amount of time is a benefit - but it comes at the price of not being able to take time off or get sick without having to pay for your replacement. As for pay it is just illustrating the challenge for teachers. Many actually take jobs waiting tables during the summer or other jobs (which negates your time off arguement). Paying for performance and responsibility is something that really needs to happen - but can be difficult to peg since parental and resources play such an important role.
Once your daughter starts working in a school we will see if you change your tune. It will give you a peak inside the profession and the craziness that surround it. Something like 22% of new teachers quit within the first 3 years so if she makes it through that then she has made it through the toughest part. My wife considered it after the her first two years.[/quote]
Most every job (career) has its advantages and disadvantages. As for the “summer jobs”, I know many do that and I would too, but again that simply brings the teacher’s schedule back to what most everyone else does already and adds to that “annual salary”. So, don’t forget to include that summer income when you compare to “12 month jobs” then. You are correct, that when my daughter starts working it might alter some of my thoughts, but I do know a number of teachers personally already. You don’t HAVE to be married to one to have an “somewhat educated” opinion about it.
Certainly the amount of time is a benefit - but it comes at the price of not being able to take time off or get sick without having to pay for your replacement. As for pay it is just illustrating the challenge for teachers. Many actually take jobs waiting tables during the summer or other jobs (which negates your time off arguement). Paying for performance and responsibility is something that really needs to happen - but can be difficult to peg since parental and resources play such an important role.
Once your daughter starts working in a school we will see if you change your tune. It will give you a peak inside the profession and the craziness that surround it. Something like 22% of new teachers quit within the first 3 years so if she makes it through that then she has made it through the toughest part. My wife considered it after the her first two years.[/quote]
Most every job (career) has its advantages and disadvantages. As for the “summer jobs”, I know many do that and I would too, but again that simply brings the teacher’s schedule back to what most everyone else does already and adds to that “annual salary”. So, don’t forget to include that summer income when you compare to “12 month jobs” then. You are correct, that when my daughter starts working it might alter some of my thoughts, but I do know a number of teachers personally already. You don’t HAVE to be married to one to have an “somewhat educated” opinion about it.[/quote]
No but trust me when I say when your monthly income becomes dependent on what they bring in it brings to light some of the crap.
Could it be that teachers don’t have it as bad as some make it out to be, but North Carolina still isn’t treating its teachers as well as it should?
Your voice of reason has no place here.
Certainly the amount of time is a benefit - but it comes at the price of not being able to take time off or get sick without having to pay for your replacement. As for pay it is just illustrating the challenge for teachers. Many actually take jobs waiting tables during the summer or other jobs (which negates your time off arguement). Paying for performance and responsibility is something that really needs to happen - but can be difficult to peg since parental and resources play such an important role.
Once your daughter starts working in a school we will see if you change your tune. It will give you a peak inside the profession and the craziness that surround it. Something like 22% of new teachers quit within the first 3 years so if she makes it through that then she has made it through the toughest part. My wife considered it after the her first two years.[/quote]
Most every job (career) has its advantages and disadvantages. As for the “summer jobs”, I know many do that and I would too, but again that simply brings the teacher’s schedule back to what most everyone else does already and adds to that “annual salary”. So, don’t forget to include that summer income when you compare to “12 month jobs” then. You are correct, that when my daughter starts working it might alter some of my thoughts, but I do know a number of teachers personally already. You don’t HAVE to be married to one to have an “somewhat educated” opinion about it.[/quote]Was going to say the same thing, but didn’t really want to get drawn into the argument because my thoughts are pretty much what J Felt posted anyway.
Teachers in NC are woefully underpaid for the imporatance of their position and impact they have on society. There is absolutely zero incentve for a high perfroming student to get into the education field at this time.
The current people in power are doing their level best to eviscerate Public Education and privitize it.