Debate Topic: 9ers better now than team

Just curious what others think. The latter team came out the gates strong and murdered their opponents. I really thought we would see that in this years team. Hopefully, we finish stronger this season.

i think the team with jobey and co. was better. they wouldnt have lost to rutgers thats for damn sure

I think that this team is better. That team lost to…

St. Bonaventure (by 1)
Indiana (by 4)
Pepperdine (by 11)
Arizona State (by 13)

Then proceeded to a 6 loss conference record, including losses to lowly Houston, South Florida, and being swept by St. Louis.

That was a good team, but I don’t think this one will stumble that often. Time will tell.

no comparision…this team is much better at every position and much deeper.

Most talent we’ve had since I’ve been watching us (1983). However, you’ve got to hit FTs to be elite, I don’t see any hope of this. Plav has simply got to straighten himself out. No excuse for it, quit thinking and shoot the damn thing. If Baldwin can hit his, he can too. No hope for Iti, Basden can be okay, Curtis is 60% and that’s about it.

We’re good, very good and deep. We basically beat a Big East team and a SEC team that’s okay and pissed them both away. The good news is we’re going to be 9-2 OOC (I think). But we won’t have beaten anybody. Better play hard.

We’ve got five guys averaging double-figures in scoring (Withers, Plavich, Basden, Baldwin, Drayton). Iti is just behind at 8.9 and 6 rbs. Goldwire and Nance have helped off the bench. Everything is going as planned, EXCEPT of course the 2 losses by a total of 3 points.

This still can be a great year and top the 2000-2001 team. Of course, we’d have to win either the C-USA reg season or tournament or both…and then advance at least to the second round.

We’ve got some solid senior leadership in Eddie and Brendan. If everyone stays together (which I think they can), this team can do some damage.

[i]Originally posted by JKniner[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 09:57 PM [b] no comparision...this team is much better at every position and much deeper. [/b]
I don't know man. Maybe their record wasn't as good as it should have been but I think that starting 5 was better than this one. This team may be deeper. Rodney was the 9th player taken in the NBA draft.

Baldwin - Demon Brown/Diego Guevara
Plavich - Jobey Thomas
Basden/Drayton - James Zimmerman
Withers - Rodney White
Iti - Kenkay Jones

Is that correct? Can someone add the bench for 00-01?

Wasn’t Jermaine Williams on that team, split time with KenKay? And I know you forgot Cam Stephens. He wasn’t great that year, but he added a bunch of athleticism.

I think the two teams are close, but Rodney was better than anyone else. However, this year’s team is is deeper. Goldwire is a great fill in for either guard spot and Nance is a good backup for Iti.

I like that we have so many guys averaging double figures. I would think that’s ideal. On Rodney’s team, you could shut him down and sometimes we’d struggle to score. This year’s backcourt is better defensively too.

Bench… Cam Stephens, Butter Johnson, Tory Reed, Dee Tolliver, Malik El-Tamer, Jermaine Williams, Johnathan Williams and Matas Niparacicius

Rodney was the ninth pick…but that was based on potential. I would said that curt is equally effective in the college game.

Curt’s numbers are a little shy of Rodney’s and Rodney was younger at the time (I believe).

To me, Curtis’ biggest flaw is hanging around perimeter. This may be a byproduct of our offense, but he needs to play on the blocks during the course of a game. He’s not a PG or SG. Rodney did it effectively and showcased his inside/outside game.

Judging talent from year to year is very difficult, but players properly fitting into a system can be determined fairly easily. I believe it is a fact that the Rodney/Jobey/Diego team had personnel that was better suited for the Lutz System. There were 5 guys on that team that could shoot the 3 - Diego, Jobey, Demon, Rodney and JZ. Diego and Jobey were outstanding and the other 3 were very good. This fit perfectly into Lutz’s philosphy.

Additionally, while I think this year’s team is a talented, Lutz’s reliance on the 3, while only possessing 1 legitimate 3 point shooter, will result in a mediocre season for the Niners (16-18 wins). If you live and die by the sword (or the 3) your chances of survival are greater if you have more swords. The Niners are going to battle with only one this year - and he’s awfully streaky.

We have something that most coach’s would love to have, but I feel are under utilized in the Lutz System: 3 guys who love to play defense and excel at it. Baldwin, Goldwire and Basden are all quick, athletic and hard-nosed as hell on the ball. You throw in a long, athletic power forward (Withers/Drayton) to steal errant passes forced by the tough on-ball pressure by the aforementioned players and a shot-blocker (Iti) to protect the basket if the pressure is broken and this is a great mix of talent for a style such “40 minutes of Hell” a la Arkansas of the early 90’s or a trapping, match-up zone such as Jerry Tarkanian’s UNLV teams from the same era. However, Lutz doesn’t believe in and/or doesn’t know how to teach this style effectively. Therefore, we will keep heaving the 3’s in spite of the fact we really don’t have the personnel this year to effectively employ that system. Because of this, I believe we will be only marginally successful this season.

So to answer the question, while it’s debatable whether this year’s team may or may not be more talented than the Rodney/Jobey/Diego teams, in my opinion the '04-05 Niners will not enjoy the same success as that team enjoyed (20+ wins, CUSA title, NCAA tourney win) because this year the personnel doesn’t fit the Lutz system.

[i]Originally posted by 4AMer[/i]@Dec 17 2004, 01:10 PM [b] So to answer the question, while it's debatable whether this year's team may or may not be more talented than the Rodney/Jobey/Diego teams, in my opinion the '04-05 Niners will not enjoy the same success as that team enjoyed (20+ wins, CUSA title, NCAA tourney win) because this year the personnel doesn't fit the Lutz system. [/b]
I like this year's balanced attack. I'm sure Lutz would prefer it over a bunch of long-range shooters. We had weapons in 00-01 and weapons this year. We're going to the line a bunch. Just hit 70% of the free-throws, improve defense and this team has unlimited potential.

Good topic, it is really hard to tell so far, that 01 team was loaded and put it together at the end of the season.

It is interesting the other night on the post game show, Odom asked coach that question whose hands do you want the ball in when the game is on the line. Odom/Lutz named the guys they had in the program, and a lot of the guys were on that 01 team.

Lutz said they have a lot more options on this years team and it is more situational, in years past he said there was only two choices typically. But he does like the ball in the seniors hands; Plavich and Eddie.

[i]Originally posted by amnesiac[/i]@Dec 18 2004, 11:04 AM [b] Good topic, it is really hard to tell so far, that 01 team was loaded and put it together at the end of the season.


End of the season being the key here. Lutz’s teams have traditionally finished strong down the stretch. I’d like to see the numbers on that, ie the record for the last 10 games of the season. I think last year we were 7-3.

And if you listen to Coach talk about these non-conf games, the coaches really do look at it as a work in progress. They’re trying to find out where the team is, weaknesses, strengths, how they respond, who steps up, etc. It’s always interesting to see the progress as the year goes on.

Great topic. It’s too early to tell. At this point, it’s all speculation. I sure hope this team is better than the 2000/2001 team… & better than the '97/'98 team… & better than the Final 4 team too.


I think this year’s team has more talent, but whether or not it’s a “better team” remains to be seen…