Electric cars - How quick will mainstream adopt?

#301

Caddy is going 100% electric Nugget.

0 Likes

#302

If I understand it correctly (which I may not), they released their patents in a reciprocal manner, so that if another company wants to use those patents, Tesla then gets to use that company’s, hence why no one has taken them up on it. Even with it being inferior tech, none of these bigger companies want to give up their trade secrets in order to get Tesla’s.
I can’t remember where I read that, and like I said I could be way off. Any patent lawyers out there?

0 Likes

#303

I don’t understand it either. Tesla is truly a remarkable American success story. It represents what we are most proud of as a nation. An underdog building itself up through grit and determination and innovation, battling off the foreign companies along the way. I don’t get why it isn’t celebrated as such.

0 Likes

#304

All I know is at some point I’ll end up owning both an electric car and an electric motorcycle and their performance and usability will be amazing and I’ll like that, I will also bet my soul I’ll enjoy driving experience of my ICE vehicle more.

1 Like

#305

Because EVs are seen as liberal and some people cant separate politics from any aspect of their lives.

If it is something liberals support they want to see it fail even if it comes at the expense of american success.

0 Likes

#306

That seems entirely reasonable to me NWA…

Though Joe Rogan felt the same way too and has come around a good bit. So, you never know.

I’ll take this opportunity to discuss something that I saw which made me wrinkle my nose at EVs:

One of the various YouTube bloggers took a Hyundai Kona on a road trip out west. He wanted to test the ~250 mile range claims. What he found is that going up into the mountains decreased range enough to reintroduce some range anxiety, enough that he stopped for a 50% recharge (which was overkill, and took 45 minutes), even though his estimated reduced range was probably enough to still make his destination. At the time he stopped, he had gone a little over 100 miles (almost all uphill) but had used 147 miles of range.

MPG also goes in the toilet in a petrol car in that situation, but it’s of course a lot easier to deal with.

Because of that, and because of range reductions in extreme cold, I think EVs are going to me popular in flatter, warmer locales that also have access to good charging networks. The non political holdouts are probably going to shy towards the more rural, higher elevation, and colder regions, and I can’t blame them.

0 Likes

#307

I’d counter that I prefer a straight drive over an automatic all day long even though the new automatics are so much better. Better performance doesn’t always mean better experience. if performance is you bar then the electrics will win out easy.

0 Likes

#308

You don’t shift electric cars. As long as shifting = driving enjoyment to you, I can’t see your opinion ever changing.

Some people ascribe handling and acceleration as other key factors in driving enjoyment, and EVs seem to do quite well in both categories. The lower center of gravity especially being a factor.

0 Likes

#309

I will say that Tesla moved the needle hard on EV’s, but they are becoming more and more like the mainstream automotive companies. I don’t think you will continue to see releases and build cycles continue at the pace they have been. I also don’t believe that Tesla is truly releasing all of their technical data to other manufacturers. Some of the specs of other auto companies don’t seem on par with Tesla.

I will also add that Elon Musk is a nut job that needs to stay in the think tank and out from the cameras.

0 Likes

#310

Amazon could make it work if they are interested after reviewing all of the data on Rivian. Amazon is more software driven than hardware and have invested heavily on the autonomous driving part of automobiles.

Shell oil was also an investor in Aurora which is interesting.

If I were Rivian I would stray from GM because their management would weigh the company down. Maybe their thought is to have Amazon on the other side to balance that out. GM will be cash heavy going into 2020 after lay-offs and plant closures so they will likely not want to show that as earned income and let the IRS take it.

0 Likes

#311

I don’t see electric vehicles as political, but I do think like anything else one side wants to claim it as theirs and make out like they are better people for embracing it first while the other side will react as if being insulted and associate the technology with it’s somewhat arrogant supporters who just also happen to be on the other side of the political aisle from them too.

Pretty sure there was a South Park episode about this.

0 Likes

#312

I mentioned earlier that cars today are becoming appliances, and I meant that with some level of derision, but that probably isn’t fair because I drive a Honda precisely because they are dependable vehicles that need almost nothing beyond gas and scheduled maintenance. My Honda turns on the headlights, and does bright/dim automatically. It has smart cruise, and lane keeper assist. It is approaching Level 2 autonomy (0-5). I like this stuff in my daily commute and I will probably never go under the hood with a wrench. This part of me looks forward to autonomous EVs.

The other part of me owns a 1967 MGB and I like working on it as much as driving it. This fulfills my need to shift the gears, hear the engine, and really connect with the car. The MG is not about getting there, it is about going there.

I think the truth is all of us will be driving appliances soon, and some of us will own multiple cars to scratch that itch. I need more garage space. Anyone know where I can get a 1976 Jeep CJ5 with no rust?

0 Likes

#313

I am cursed with engineering logic. I question most anything technical of interest. If I question Tesla, I get labeled negatively. How dare I question a company that has lost billions of dollars when everyone swears they are profitable based on future dollars? Judy called it fantasy? As far as fraud and Tesla goes, the SEC is watching, but when has government ever been rapid and efficient. Time will tell. I am no gambler, but have at it. Its your money. Buy that Chevy volt if it makes you feel better. Warm yourself by the fire. I don’t hate you for believing in electric cars. Far from it. If you do lose your investment, I will have empathy. If it succeeds, I will happily admit I was wrong.

0 Likes

#314

Ah ok, so now there’s no fraud. Got it.
Nothing wrong with questioning anything. More people need to be skeptical and seek answers. I didn’t mean to start a whole derailment of the thread, just wanted to point out a few misconceptions in the thread. I’m surprised and glad to see that a thread on EVs has garnered so much interest. I love it. Though it’s the offseason, and basketball is at 6 wins so that may have something to do with it.

0 Likes

#315

There might be fraud with Tesla and that wouldn’t shock me at all. Time will tell because if there is, Tesla will likely implode sooner than later. I am certainly a Tesla skeptic based on what I have come to review. Still, I admit to being among the least educated on the electric car subject matter that appears to cause many of you believe that electric cars are some sort of nectar from the gods that will take us to Nirvana. That electric car technology is lightyears ahead of the combustion engine, even if combustion engine fuel remains relatively abundant and affordable.

I love great America success stories., such as Microsoft, Apple, Henry Ford, Nicolás Tesla, Carnegie, Westinghouse, the Wright Brothers, Duke Ellington, Elvis, Hendrix and the mighty Van Halen. When I look at Tesla’s historical annual public business financial records, I think of stories that are more similar to Enron, mortgage derivatives, Madoff, Jim Baker and his PTL. If I am wrong about Tesla, I will be thrilled… If I am not wrong about Tesla, the world will keep on churning and the gas will keep on burning. I certainly do not rule out a new power contender to appear that will at least compete with gas or electric power. The unfortunate reality is that many new innovations that have really benefited mankind, were pushed forward to that end by war. Penicillin is an example. The airplane was fast-tracked because of war. The electric car got a boost by the government and because of high fuel prices, and there are certainly military uses for electric motors.

0 Likes

#316

Maybe I can help with the technology side of things. I have been in the electric vehicle industry since I graduated from “The University of Charlotte” in 2000 up until 2017 when I moved to other forms of industrial automation. Electric vehicles are not some new concept, but they have not been in a car offered to the public. Electric fork trucks have been around for generations and autonomous (self-guided) electric fork trucks were first developed in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1954. There are 4 to 5 companies in Charlotte that make these today, and Charlotte is one of the most active areas in the world for this technology today. Many Charlotte grads have worked in the business. I have helped create 100’s of custom self-guided electric vehicle systems over two decades. There is at least 1 item in your house that was carried by a self-driving electric vehicle. So with all of the years of technology, why are we just now seeing electric cars? #1 is the battery technology and #2 is battery charging technology. In the industrial world we love lead-acid batteries because they are heavy. They allow us to use counter-balance to lift objects. This is 95% of the job of electric vehicles in a factory. The move to lithium-ion has created a much better weight/power ratio. The rest of the technology from electric trucks in industry and automobiles is the same. Fast charging came along about 20 years ago which also made more sense for an automobile, but has been helpful in industrial settings as well.

I don’t believe that Tesla is a fraud as it takes unbelievable amounts of money to produce a large quantity of cars that are tested by the government for safety. To me that sets companies apart, like Rivian who just has a great concept. For Rivian to now bring their product to mass production versus build 5 or even 50 in the shop is a huge financial challenge. This is why they are bringing in investors like GM and Amazon. From just a labor point of view, a small auto assembly factory is about 1000 employees. Before building the first car they need maybe 160 hours of training. At $40/ hour including benefits, which is on the low side you are putting out $6.4 million just in training. Then you have the suppliers. Many people don’t think about the Tier 1, 2, and 3 suppliers that you have to bring along to manufacture the components of the vehicles. The BMW facility in Greenville has about 8,000 employees, but the surrounding tier suppliers have between 20,000 and 30,000 employees. This is all huge startup capital investments. Everyone wants a down-payment and no supplier is risking their money on Rivian. This is why Tesla bleeds money most likely. You have to continuously sell 100’s of thousands of cars to make money at it. Look at the major brands or car companies that have gone away over the last two decades.

0 Likes

#317

Thank you. My uncle, now retired and well into his 80’s, is an extremely accomplished electrical and aerospace engineer. He had direct role in or was primarily responsible for many great innovations and inventions. His grand resume’ seems impossible, but it is real. He claims to have invented a super-efficient electrical motor, or a hybrid motor based on the rotary engine in the 1960’s or 70’s. The company he worked for was also a major supplier of the American auto industry. My uncle claims it was so effective and efficient, that his company buried it and quietly sold off the tech rights to a golfcart manufacturer. They apparently were very worried that Detroit would retaliate by their pulling business because one of their primary suppliers would be threatening to become their competition. I certainly believe him. It is an uphill climb vs big oil. They will not play fair or nice.

0 Likes

#318

clt is just happy that golf carts now include usb chargers

0 Likes

#319

Because it goes vroom vroom and you have to wait for the revs to kick up to get the power you need?

This is coming from the guy who has a dedicated 6 speed manual V8 droptop for nice days only.

0 Likes

#320

It’s just a more connected driving experience to me. I’ve driven small convertibles for most of my life. Never with a ton of power so 0-60 isn’t the end all be all. Hell my Mazda 3 is a faster better handling more powerful car - every category you can make it’s a better car but I hate it and the experience of driving my MG is hands down more enjoyable.

My dad was a pilot and detested the move to fly by wire and computerized aircraft. He acknowledged the new aircraft were far superior vehicles but that while the plane stepped up performance in many ways it lost part of what the experience to fly was. He always got excited when he got an old plane that he had to “fly”. This is the same thing.

0 Likes