Electric cars - How quick will mainstream adopt?


#141

How about some 'murica love for that Rivian. Despite the brits in the video, that thing was designed and is being manufactured in good ole U S of A… Illinois to be specific.

I thought the thing was still too overpriced, but the base price of the Truck is $61k, and the SUV is $65k, before federal tax credit. That puts it in the wheelhouse of Ford and Toyota trucks, especially when you figure out how much cheaper it will be to operate.

Also, the ingenuity of the design… stick around and watch the truck tour. Its so effing practical… youtube guy was speechless. This thing deserves to sell like Model Ts did if it delivers on everything they described. Just incredible. Gotta salute the home grown ingenuity.


#142

The SUV looks badass. Base $65k doesn’t seem too bad.


#143

pretty cool. tesla/rivian (if they get off the ground) are where its at. I fear for old ICE manufacturers that botch their initial entry. Gonna be like Kodak.


#144

Rivian’s leadership team is proven from other auto brands (and they have 600 employees), and they acquired the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal Illinois. They have two working models. I think they will produce models, but let’s see if they can hold pricing. They are going the Tesla route and making the most expensive version first, which will hurt them the same way Tesla waiting to deliver the cheap model 3 has.


#145

any of these newer companies are going to have to poach key people from established car makers for their knowledge. tesla did the same with a few design mfgr folks. smart way to go.

gonna look up some of their info over the weekend, wonder where they getting their funding from?

define “hurt them”? imo. if tesla tried to make the 3 first, they would have failed. the S and X were learning trials in order to now build the 3.


#146

What is there even going to be left to inspect? Wiper blades, turn signals, working headlights, that’s it. They will just be safety checks, zero emissions vehicles.

I trust one thing above all else, the state will figure out how to get their tax money, so whether it’s from mileage from inspections, or the gas tax turns into something just levied more generally across the population, it’ll happen. The gas tax has always been interesting anyway, since even people who don’t use roads still benefit from them. Their groceries, wares, etc., most all come in - at least final mile - on roads, and many of them for a significant portion of their journey. It wouldn’t be incomprehensible to think it’d be spread across all citizens. Heck, even if you don’t ride light rail for example, the lower road congestion still benefits drivers.


#147

I didn’t mention the previous auto experience to be disparaging anborn. Quite the opposite. I think it shows that they have people who know what it takes to bring a product to market.

The comparison I made wasn’t to the S or the X, but to Tesla bringing out the higher spec’d model 3’s instead of the PR trumpeted $35k model. Rivian is going to do the same thing. Their first models are going to be the ones with the largest battery packs and other options which will shoot the price way over the quoted low to mid 60k entry level model which they will probably produce much later, like Tesla did. I don’t see the design advantage of doing that - I think its all about the premium they can get on those models to help recoup costs and drive down the marginal expense to make later production cheaper. But the public is going to ask where the $62k model is.

I just saw who they were funded by. I think it was some kind of US backed capital company and a Saudi (IIRC royal) family also has a material stake. That may scare some people off.


#148

clt asks what happens when an electric car gets struck by lightning.

Does that recharge the batteries?

clt doesn’t want to wait on a lightning strike


#149


#150

gotcha mate… totally on the same page with all that. i think the advantage is to produce models that have higher profit margins before producing models that have slightly lower margins. leaves a sour taste in consumer/reservation holders mouths if a realistic timeline isn’t provided (and met) though. This is ultimately where tesla struggled. they didn’t effectively manage consumer expectation (with regards to timeline). If they had just said, the 35k model wouldn’t be out until mid 2019 from the very start, then things are better.


#151

Gasoline powered cars will eventually be replaced, but never by a battery powered vehicle as we define it today. Just my opinion.


#152

That is interesting that the Rivian guys bought the Mitsubishi plant. I installed some electric vehicles in that plant to move the dies used for stamping and to move the sheet steel to be stamped into the hoods. That is a huge facility. I guess they need to rename the road the goes next to it from Mitsubishi Motorway to Rivian Motorway. :smile:

As far as electric vehicles and cold temps go, they currently run in 24/7 temps of -10 to -20. They do have less charge, but the bigger problem is charging at those temps. It is just not efficient. I am sure the car companies do some work on both hot and cold temps of the batteries. The good thing about electricity is that you can easily heat things. A little bit tougher to cool things.


#153

I’m curious if the Rivian truck range decreases if you are hauling a camper or hauling a full load in the back of the truck. It will take a long time for the Rivian truck to overtake the big 3 in the truck market. Truck owners are very loyal to their brand.


#154

Hard to gauge loyalty, but the tech crosses simple loyalty and is a totally different consumer consideration. That said, I would rather buy a Toyota/Lexus EV than a Hyundai, for the reason you said. But I’d buy an EV from Hyundai before I would buy a gas guzzler from anyone, as long as the price/value is comparable (still an issue for EVs, but I’m thinking it will equal out by around 2025).

The Rivian guy claimed* (this deserves an asterisk) that the towing capacity, which was based upon 1,400nm or about 1,000 lb ft of torque if my math is right, is 5 tons. That is a considerable amount of power, though admittedly not as much as many diesel HD trucks (then again the Rivian is smaller and not aimed at that group - if you need to tow 10 tons, get yourself a diesel). My common sense wisdom says that unless you are really taxing that towing capacity, it’s not going to have a meaningful impact on battery life. I have a buddy with one of those souped up go cart vehicles that are kind of a fad recently, and he has told me that unless he is towing a really heavy load with it, it makes no noticeable difference in how often he has to recharge.

One of my favorite things about several of these EV designs is that they have motors at all 4 wheels (4 wheel drive). The Rivian can also employ multiple levels of torque vectoring.


#155

I’m a truck owner and I haul a camper. Recently had to upgrade to a newer truck (kids car seats don’t fit well in extended cabs). If you are hauling a camper even a pop up which we have, you notice it, especially hauling it up the mountains. You’re right though most will get a 2500 series for camper hauling but while researching trucks I read recently brand loyalty is hard to overcome which is why Toyota and Nissan have not been able to take over the big 3 in the full size truck market.

Innovation is great though, Chevy recently introduced a version of the Colorado for those that do overlanding and it’s causing the other manufacturers to up their game.


#156

The interesting this about towing with electric is all the torque is available the moment you touch the throttle. No buildup required, no gassing it up a hill. It pulls as hard from the moment you leave the line as it ever will. Hard to wrap your head around, I’ve done my fair share of towing too, but towing with a decent EV SUV or truck is gonna blow away ICE towing.


#157

Im sure it’ll crush the range in a similar scale towing crushes gas mileage. My guys tow a 12ft 5000lb trailer. Gas mileage without it is about 16mpg. With it 9 or 10.


#158

Yeah my last Jeep I lost about 30-40% MPG towing ~4k lbs. And up a mountain oh boy, instant readouts of 4 and 5 MPG going up Old Fort u der load with a full trailer.


#159

well up a mountain - do we really need physics lessons?

If you’re just towing a wave runner on a small trailer up to lake norman, I don’t think it’s going to make a huge difference. Any large load and of course going up hill will tax the battery the same way it kills mpg.


#160

Actually, my point is, maybe not. Since it requires more fuel to get more RPMs, which are needed to make peak torque, versus all the torque being available at the lowest end of the RPM spectrum with an electric car. Arguably, from my limited understanding, you’d get better effective MPG or whatever they are calling it than with gas, because you don’t need to add more ‘fuel’ to get revolutions up to make the torque required to move the weight.