Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.
retain ciara gegory to teach our guyd how to shoot FTs.
[quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote]
It is a good question. It is also I think related to how players come up through a system now. Do AAU teams practice freethrows? I know when I played we shot a lot of freethrows and misses were rewarded by the team running. It forced you to practice on your own time. With the change in how these elite players come up is that still there? I guess what I am trying to say is once some of these players hit college campuses are now are they getting their first legit guidance on shooting FTs? Is it too late to correct bad habits created under poor coaching?
FTFY
[quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.
[quote=“4ever niner, post:5, topic:30110”][quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.[/quote]
FT Shooting is mostly mental and can be contagious within the team. For example, Braxton was (IIRC) listed as an ~88-90 FT shooter we he arrived here (after HS and one year at UF) and he is down in the low 70s now. Curran Scott was very good in HS as well and had a game earlier this year when we was 11-11 for us, yet he is only in the 70s for the season. We will eventually break through and improve. I am confident of that.
[quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote]
Agreed. Although, it doesn’t have to be 10% for me. Any increase would be great.
I think Demarco became a much better FT shooter over his career. But he’s definitely the exception and not the norm.
[quote=“4ever niner, post:5, topic:30110”][quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.[/quote]
Your thought that some posters here are unreasonable is totally correct. No one hating on Price like they did Major though our FT shooting is actually worse so far this year by 2% points, we basically have 4 guards on the floor at all times, and we got rid of Clayton, who was 1 player off from being the worst ft shooter in D1 last year.
That being said, I don’t think much of it is controllable by the head coach. You got to have confident players at the line. I really think previous posters are right, players have to get themselves comfortable and work on it on their own time (as long as they don’t have some very obvious mechanics flaw that coaching can help).
[quote=“Iron9er, post:8, topic:30110”][quote=“4ever niner, post:5, topic:30110”][quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.[/quote]
Your thought that some posters here are unreasonable is totally correct. No one hating on Price like they did Major though our FT shooting is actually worse so far this year by 2% points, we basically have 4 guards on the floor at all times, and we got rid of Clayton, who was 1 player off from being the worst ft shooter in D1 last year.
That being said, I don’t think much of it is controllable by the head coach. You got to have confident players at the line. I really think previous posters are right, players have to get themselves comfortable and work on it on their own time (as long as they don’t have some very obvious mechanics flaw that coaching can help).[/quote]
Each year under Major our FT % got worse. He stated that he didn’t like using practice time practicing them (when in reality we weren’t even using all of the time we had available). We are half way into Price’s first season with a roster of almost all new guys. I fully expect FT % to improve next year. Price has said there is an expectation to hit them and they do practice them.
No. Look at what Price did with MKG. Completely changing his mechanics over a 2 yr period. I am a firm believer that if you are a college level athlete…you can learn/change/alter anything within your specialty/craft and master it within 1-2 years. A baseball player changes his stance and swing mechanics all the time. There is no reason that if it is mechanics, rhythm, arc, release…it’s as simple as learning it and practicing it until it becomes habit.
Look at Lavar Batts…the #1 player in his class. I saw him in middle school and he was faster, quicker and had better handles and more athleticism than anyone else on the court. But he shot everything from his hip. My 8yr old daughter could block his shots. He STILL shoots free throws from his hip…but he changed his jumpshot this offseason. In one offseason he retooled his jumpshot. Why? Because he can’t go D1 shooting jumpshots from his hip like a 6th grader. I’ll bet he changes his free throw mechanics in time too. He is motivated to play high D1…so a highschool kid was motivated enough to retool a shot he’s used for the last 5 years and he did so in one offseason.
College kids or pros can do the same. It’s their craft. They can tweak anything they want if motivated to do so andwilling to put in the reps to practice it.
[quote=“NinerWupAss, post:9, topic:30110”][quote=“Iron9er, post:8, topic:30110”][quote=“4ever niner, post:5, topic:30110”][quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.[/quote]
Your thought that some posters here are unreasonable is totally correct. No one hating on Price like they did Major though our FT shooting is actually worse so far this year by 2% points, we basically have 4 guards on the floor at all times, and we got rid of Clayton, who was 1 player off from being the worst ft shooter in D1 last year.
That being said, I don’t think much of it is controllable by the head coach. You got to have confident players at the line. I really think previous posters are right, players have to get themselves comfortable and work on it on their own time (as long as they don’t have some very obvious mechanics flaw that coaching can help).[/quote]
Each year under Major our FT % got worse. He stated that he didn’t like using practice time practicing them (when in reality we weren’t even using all of the time we had available). We are half way into Price’s first season with a roster of almost all new guys. I fully expect FT % to improve next year. Price has said there is an expectation to hit them and they do practice them.[/quote]
Not technically true.
2010-11 72.9%
2011-12 65.9%
2012-13 65.4%
2013-14 64.8%
2014-15 65.0%
2015-16 62.7%
Major’s teams had a downward trend (though not straight down as the last year came up a bit), but really the rate was pretty stable over those 4 years - only 1.1% difference from best year to worse. I’m throwing out 2010-11 as the best by far, but that was mainly because Bobby’s players were generally recruited as better shooters. I don’t really give Major credit for them being good ft shooters that year.
That being said, Price’s team is a 2.1% less than Major’s worst year so far. Yes, they are new players, etc and I’m not giving coach grief about the performance, but pointing out that some of our posters see what they want to see and complain just to complain. I personally agree with Major about practice time on ft’s. Like I said before, I think kids have to put their own extra time into it. I saw guys like Basden, Jobey, etc in the gym doing it all the time because they wanted to be good.
No. Look at what Price did with MKG. Completely changing his mechanics over a 2 yr period. I am a firm believer that if you are a college level athlete…you can learn/change/alter anything within your specialty/craft and master it within 1-2 years. A baseball player changes his stance and swing mechanics all the time. There is no reason that if it is mechanics, rhythm, arc, release…it’s as simple as learning it and practicing it until it becomes habit.
Look at Lavar Batts…the #1 player in his class. I saw him in middle school and he was faster, quicker and had better handles and more athleticism than anyone else on the court. But he shot everything from his hip. My 8yr old daughter could block his shots. He STILL shoots free throws from his hip…but he changed his jumpshot this offseason. In one offseason he retooled his jumpshot. Why? Because he can’t go D1 shooting jumpshots from his hip like a 6th grader. I’ll bet he changes his free throw mechanics in time too. He is motivated to play high D1…so a highschool kid was motivated enough to retool a shot he’s used for the last 5 years and he did so in one offseason.
College kids or pros can do the same. It’s their craft. They can tweak anything they want if motivated to do so andwilling to put in the reps to practice it.[/quote]
Jump shooting and FT shooting not the same thing. But forget conjecture, where are the stats?
I’m too lazy to look it up but Uchebo seems to shoot a lot of free throws and he is a really poor free throw shooter. This has got to have a significant negative impact on the team’s free throw percentage.
I’m no fan of Major, but I do think some folks went overboard blaming him for everything, when reality was less extreme, while giving Price and co. a pass on some glaring issues (e.g. defense). Free throw shooting is obviously a problem right now, hopefully it gets better.
I’m hoping that with the young guards, their free throw shooting woes are because they are currently retooling and refining their mechanics and they aren’t used to it yet. Or maybe just nerves since they are so inexperienced. We’ll get to see if it improves. It’s too bad, because I’d love for these guys to be rewarded for playing hard with some wins, but missing ft’s makes that really tough even against mediocre teams.
As for Jackson, he’s definitely an intriguing player, and I don’t really care too much yet that his ft shooting could improve. He’s appears to be a dynamic player, this program needs more like him.
[quote=“Iron9er, post:11, topic:30110”][quote=“NinerWupAss, post:9, topic:30110”][quote=“Iron9er, post:8, topic:30110”][quote=“4ever niner, post:5, topic:30110”][quote=“NLP49, post:1, topic:30110”]Spanning the entire realm of basketball, what percentage of players actually improve their FT% by 10% or more once they’re past the age of 18?
I feel like we’re hunting unicorns here expecting head coaches to fix something that’s very psychological and not just mechanics/muscle memory.[/quote] I dunno. I tried to make the argument that our free throw failures under Major weren’t his fault and that was met with some derision.
I’m agreeing with you and, at the same time, pointing out that some posters here are entirely unreasonable.
If Mark Price can’t get guys to make their FREE throws, I’m pretty sure its a well nigh impossible task.
Bad free throw shooting generally hurts the game in my opinion, because it encourages more fouling and thus more play stoppage.[/quote]
Your thought that some posters here are unreasonable is totally correct. No one hating on Price like they did Major though our FT shooting is actually worse so far this year by 2% points, we basically have 4 guards on the floor at all times, and we got rid of Clayton, who was 1 player off from being the worst ft shooter in D1 last year.
That being said, I don’t think much of it is controllable by the head coach. You got to have confident players at the line. I really think previous posters are right, players have to get themselves comfortable and work on it on their own time (as long as they don’t have some very obvious mechanics flaw that coaching can help).[/quote]
Each year under Major our FT % got worse. He stated that he didn’t like using practice time practicing them (when in reality we weren’t even using all of the time we had available). We are half way into Price’s first season with a roster of almost all new guys. I fully expect FT % to improve next year. Price has said there is an expectation to hit them and they do practice them.[/quote]
Not technically true.
2010-11 72.9%
2011-12 65.9%
2012-13 65.4%
2013-14 64.8%
2014-15 65.0%
2015-16 62.7%
Major’s teams had a downward trend (though not straight down as the last year came up a bit), but really the rate was pretty stable over those 4 years - only 1.1% difference from best year to worse. I’m throwing out 2010-11 as the best by far, but that was mainly because Bobby’s players were generally recruited as better shooters. I don’t really give Major credit for them being good ft shooters that year.
That being said, Price’s team is a 2.1% less than Major’s worst year so far. Yes, they are new players, etc and I’m not giving coach grief about the performance, but pointing out that some of our posters see what they want to see and complain just to complain. I personally agree with Major about practice time on ft’s. Like I said before, I think kids have to put their own extra time into it. I saw guys like Basden, Jobey, etc in the gym doing it all the time because they wanted to be good.[/quote]
So one year it went up the rest went down. Close enough for me. I do include Bobby’s players because he took a team that had decent shooters from Bobby and they got worse under him. We would ALL love for players to be like Eddie and Jobey and spend hours away from official practice time shooting them, but if thats the expectation and it’s happening and not getting better then you have to do something about it or be ok with continuing to lose games at the line. I pretty much gave Major a pass on his first season and considering that Price, unlike Major, has mostly recruiting leftovers and virtually no one playing decent minutes from last year except for Brax it is hard for me to hit him hard on FTs or really anything this year. I will be shocked if we shoot FTs so poorly next season. In talking to Mark you can tell his attitude is totally different on FTs. When I asked about practicing them he said you practice anything that helps you win. We just need more dogs. Major’s issues came down to being a sucky coach, let’s hope Mark’s issues aren’t getting kids that can play.
Go ahead and rip for this but Major wasn’t entirely offbase. Practice time is limited and should be used for game planning, etc. Now whether he actually did anything in the given time is the rub.
D1 basketball players are not prohibited from touching a basketball outside of practice hours, they can, and should, work on them in their own time. I sincerely doubt good shooters around the nation only shoot during practice.
[quote=“hootie, post:16, topic:30110”]Go ahead and rip for this but Major wasn’t entirely offbase. Practice time is limited and should be used for game planning, etc. Now whether he actually did anything in the given time is the rub.
D1 basketball players are not prohibited from touching a basketball outside of practice hours, they can, and should, work on them in their own time. I sincerely doubt good shooters around the nation only shoot during practice.[/quote]My issue is we had APR penalties that limited our amount of practice time, and we still weren’t using our max allowed amount of time. How that make sense when we weren’t winning I’ll never know.
[quote=“2k, post:17, topic:30110”][quote=“hootie, post:16, topic:30110”]Go ahead and rip for this but Major wasn’t entirely offbase. Practice time is limited and should be used for game planning, etc. Now whether he actually did anything in the given time is the rub.
D1 basketball players are not prohibited from touching a basketball outside of practice hours, they can, and should, work on them in their own time. I sincerely doubt good shooters around the nation only shoot during practice.[/quote]My issue is we had APR penalties that limited our amount of practice time, and we still weren’t using our max allowed amount of time. How that make sense when we weren’t winning I’ll never know.[/quote]
THIS! If we were maxing out our practice time then I get it. If we aren’t using all of practice time allowed then require their asses to be in there and practice them.
[size=2][/size][quote=“hootie, post:16, topic:30110”][size=2][/size]Go ahead and rip for this but Major wasn’t entirely offbase. Practice time is limited and should be used for game planning, etc. Now whether he actually did anything in the given time is the rub. D1 basketball players are not prohibited from touching a basketball outside of practice hours, they can, and should, work on them in their own time. I sincerely doubt good shooters around the nation only shoot during practice.[/quote][font=verdana]
Don’t get me wrong I agree with not using much if any time on FTs BUT if the team sucks at them and keeps sucking at them to the point it costs you games then you are an idiot if you dont start devoting some scheduled practice time to getting better at them. [/font]
[quote=“NinerWupAss, post:18, topic:30110”][font=verdana]
Don’t get me wrong I agree with not using much if any time on FTs BUT if the team sucks at them and keeps sucking at them to the point it costs you games then you are an idiot if you dont start devoting some scheduled practice time to getting better at them. [/font][/quote]
Here’s my thesis: It won’t help. You can’t replicate the mental aspect of shooting FTs in game situations.
2K, our exchange from last January…
Quote from: moss2k on January 11, 2015, 12:07:37 am[size=11px]Quote from: MEGRNiner on January 10, 2015, 11:42:50 pmQuote from: Tintin on January 10, 2015, 10:37:48 pmWe make our free throws late, we don’t sweat this win. We missed 7 in the last 4 minutes.
[/size]
Again, I say for every game we shoot below 50% from FT line, coaches start losing digits. That will fix this problem fast.
Coaches aren’t the ones missing FTs. This is something kids need to work on during their own time, especially since we already have reduced practice time.
[font=tahoma][size=13px]Bur ARE they?? I don’t see a significant improvement over the course of 15 games. Coaches make things happen[/size][/font][size=10px][font=verdana].[/font][/size][size=small] Hell, hire a psychologist if you have to. Other teams hit 70% of their FTs, We can’t… Why??[/size]
[font=arial][size=small]…[/size][/font]
[font=arial]Willie Clayton took the most free throws of anyone on our team last year and he was our worst shooter. In fact, his 38% clip was the worst of any Division 1 player with more than 60 attempts. Willie had horrible mechanics, but you you could tell that his issue was more mental than anything. [/font]
[font=arial][[size=small]FT shooting is about repetition, muscle memory, and VISUALIZING the shot. Every big time professional golfer has a psychologist that travels with him/her. I am convinced that coach Price can fix the FT mechanics, but we need someone to come in and work between their ears… [/size][/font]