G Doyel

[KissMyAxe]

[i]Originally posted by LutzFan[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 08:45 AM [b] Mitch is our best option at PG right now. He will bring more speed and better defense (one of our downfalls last year) than Demon did. His shooting range and ball handling might not be as good, but his shot selection is better. Demon took more than his share of bad shots last year. From what I hear Mitch is a hard worker, so I am sure we will see some improvement in his game from last year.

I guess Leemire could win the job from Mitch later in the season, but as others have said he has to prove himself at the D1 level first.

This is the most excited I have been about a basketball season in a long time. I just hope Bobby stresses defense and FT shooting in practice. [/b]

Exactly - And here is a tidbit to chew on. In recent past our PG was either our number 1 or number 2 scoring option. This year it is our 5th. Thats good stuff if you ask me.

[LeftyNiner]

[i]Originally posted by NinerAdvocate+Aug 11 2004, 09:16 AM-->

[b]QUOTE[/b] (NinerAdvocate @ Aug 11 2004, 09:16 AM)

[bobblinlutz]

[b]Add me to that list!!! Major talent coming back, promising new guys, and an "opening" at PG. Should be fun!!! [/b]

I’m on that list. Looking forward to Curt continuing his progression to one of the best players in the country. Go Niners!!

[system]

[i]Originally posted by bobblinlutz[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 08:13 AM [b]

[b]Hey at least we're debating this and not Plav bashing again. Then again, I can't wait for that topic to pick back up because I'll know the season's upon us. [/b]

… PLAV AT PG???

Thoughts??? [/b]

No way is Plav a point guard. Too slow, not a good enough ball handler, shaky court vision and wayyyy too slow to defend the position.

[system]

[i]Originally posted by LeftyNiner+Aug 11 2004, 08:58 AM-->

[b]QUOTE[/b] (LeftyNiner @ Aug 11 2004, 08:58 AM)

[LeftyNiner]

[i]Originally posted by 49erpi+Aug 11 2004, 12:16 PM-->

[b]QUOTE[/b] (49erpi @ Aug 11 2004, 12:16 PM)

Originally posted by LeftyNiner@Aug 11 2004, 08:58 AM [b]

[system]

[i]Originally posted by LeftyNiner+Aug 11 2004, 01:15 PM-->

[b]QUOTE[/b] (LeftyNiner @ Aug 11 2004, 01:15 PM)

Originally posted by 49erpi@Aug 11 2004, 12:16 PM [b] Originally posted by LeftyNiner@Aug 11 2004, 08:58 AM [b]

[49erFan1]

PI I disagree. Plavich is an excellent shooter. His overall FG % is low, but when you consider he is primarily a 3 point only guy it changes the perception. Furthermore FG% doesn’t account for the range factor. Plavich has to be guarded out to about 23 feet very closely. That really stretches a defense. He is a phenomenal shooter and IMO is the 3rd best shooter in the country (JJ Reddick and Gerry McNamara only 2 who I feel are better.)

[system]

[i]Originally posted by 49erFan1[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 04:07 PM [b] PI I disagree.

He is a phenomenal shooter and IMO is the 3rd best shooter in the country (JJ Reddick and Gerry McNamara only 2 who I feel are better.) [/b]

You just lost any remaining credibility with me cowboy.

But just incase you want to know why, here are the numbers to back up my stance…

Reddick: 95% free throws, .395% three pt.

McNamara: 87% free throws, .384% three pt.

Plavich: 77% free throws, .365% three pt.

That is quite a gap between the #2 and #3 shooters on your list. We could field a freakin football team with the number of guys that would fit in that gap.
Plavich isn’t even a good shooter when standing still from 15 feet away at the free throw line. Don’t ever tell me he is the 3rd best shooter in the country with these numbers… and that free throw percentage makes your statement less than laughable.
“Phenomenal” (your word) shooters can shoot over 80% from the stripe.

[49erFan1]

Didn’t realize he shot that pedestrian from the line. However I’m not surprised. He doesn’t have a pure stroke, he just has a good outside shot. All I’m referring to is his ability to hit the outside shot aka the 3 pointer. Heck Sager’s a better pure shooter than Plavich, but I take into account more than just percentage. I look at range, quickness of release, ability to hit big shots. It’s a biased way of grading but heck it’s my opinion and I do what I want with it.

[switchfoot]

Anyone else think that Powerbait and the rest of the anti-Plav group this year will cheer for him once the whole year and thats when he graduates? I can’t think of a more disliked player by certain fans on this board then Plavich with the exception of Iti.

[system]

Plav was fat, hurt, and too often our only half court option on offense last year. The stats are meaningless. And yes, he forced shots way too often. If he hadn’t done it though, someone else would’ve had to. Years after Sean Colson, we’re still suffering from a lack of a true playmaker. We depend way too much on the fast break (when we don’t play good enough D to get the opportunities) and limited half court sets that the competition figures out too quickly (thank you VCRs & TIVO).

This disucssion is all moot if Mitch or Leemire becomes the defensive, ball handling, playmaking guard we need. If we have that guy, Plav won’t be forcing shots anymore. He’ll be wide the hell open like Syracuse left him, and we know what he did in that situation. Those numbers will shoot way up because he is one of the top 5 shooters in college basketball, behind guys like Bracey Wright and JJ Reddick.

But back to your regularly scheduled deification of certain players and effigy hanging of others. I guess it’s more entertaining than common sense. :rolleyes:

[switchfoot]

[b]He'll be wide the hell open like Syracuse left him, and we know what he did in that situation.[/b]

The funny part is I actually could hear members of the Plav-haters boo Plavich when he shot the ball wide open behind the 3-point line last season. I say the Plav haters because I had one late in the season last year yell in my ear when I cheered for a Plav shot.

One of my favorite moments last year was late in the Louisville game when Plav hit a key 3 and I heard members of the student body booing him as it swished.

I won’t argue with his poor defense but I don’t think I have ever booed a player on our team.

[system]

[i]Originally posted by NinerAdvocate[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 08:19 PM [b] he is one of the top 5 shooters in college basketball, behind guys like Bracey Wright and JJ Reddick.

But back to your regularly scheduled deification of certain players and effigy hanging of others. I guess it’s more entertaining than common sense. :rolleyes: [/b]

Sorry NA but common sense will tell you that a guy that shoots 77% from the free throw line is not one of the top 5 shooters in the country.

It’s really not Plav’s fault. He was over-hyped coming in here and way too much was expected of him. Like I said before he is not a great shooter because he does not have a quick release, cannot come off screens, does not create his own shot and above all else HE DOESN’T SHOOT ACCURATLEY. To top it all off he is slower than Jobey, which is tough to do.

You have him in your top 5 shooters in the country and, without doing any research, I would guess he isn’t even in the top 500 free throw shooters in the country. :lol:

[LeftyNiner]

I think most people are glad Plavich’s on this team. He’ll be thinner and in better shape this year. Maybe Iti and Nance will set some solid screens. Defense will also have to sag inside with Withers, Drayton, Basden and Iti doing damage in there. If he’s open, he’s deadly.

After Syracuse, the whole country knew about Plavich. I wonder why they guarded him to 25 feet and game-planned to stop him…for the rest of the season??? Maybe they thought he could shoot-it a little.

[KTown49er]

[i]Originally posted by LeftyNiner[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 09:05 PM [b] If he's open, he's deadly.

After Syracuse, the whole country knew about Plavich. I wonder why they guarded him to 25 feet and game-planned to stop him…for the rest of the season??? Maybe they thought he could shoot-it a little. [/b]

Lefty…are you crazy!!!

Who do you really think knows more about Great shooters and the game of basketball?

A. Opposing Coaches who gameplan for and guard Plav to 25’ (which by the way also make their living and get paid ALOT of $$ to evaluate, scout and gameplan such talent)

or

B. PI

I’m going with “B.”

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this board, it’s that PI is ALWAYS…and I mean ALWAYS right. Just ask him.

[system]

I can vouch that Powerbait cheered (maybe accidently) for BP at least once.
He does look like he’s lost weight (BP), and hopefully that’ll improve his D and speed. I wish he’d utilize his pump fake more. Usually he’d do that, and then try to shoot again from the same spot, which is unwise. We’ll see. When he’s on, it’s freaking disgusting. I just want him to be smarter when he’s off. People know when they’re off.

[system]

Since we’re so obsessed with statistics, and not the underlying factors:

Charlotte FT %'s 2003-04
(Source)

Plavich .776
Clemmons .714
Brown .707
Withers .687
Sager .667

Since Plavich lead all of our scholarship players in FT shooting, it’s obvious he cannot shoot. “Better pure shooter” Chris Sager only shot .667 from the line, so, using the reasoning explained above, that’s unacceptable and he shouldn’t ever be playing. He obviously can’t shoot! And since Plav obviously cannot shoot, and he’s the best shooter on our team, NO ONE ELSE should be shooting the ball. Ever. Never mind game situations, who is or who isn’t guarding who and who we run our offense through, who carries the water for us and who other teams prepare for. It’s all decided on FT shooting. So it has been decreed, so it shall be.

By the way, Bracey Wright, who was a contender for the U20 team that Curtis played on, and is widely regarded as one of the BEST pure shooters in college basketball by a wide variety of sources from loudmouth Dickey V to NBA scouts, blew Plav away from the line. I mean just BLEW HIM AWAY last year. Observe:

Wright 142 -180 .789
Plavich 38 - 49 .776

Total freaking ownage! A whole percentage point, and three tenths! And it’s obvious that Plav’s whopping 49 trips to the line in our perimeter based offense are a representative statistical sample of his shooting prowess. It’s just so obvious. How could you deny it? I mean, if he went to the line two more times and made them both, he’d suddenly be (40-51) .784, playing in “BIG BOY” territory as an elite shooter, right? I hope he can climb that mountain! I believe in ya Plav!

Oh, and by the way, even though actual FG %, especially 3P FG % doesn’t matter (so it has been decreed), Wright (also the feature shooter on his team) owned Plav there too:

Plav 97 - 266 .365
Wright 70 - 204 .343

Oh and lest I forget some of the other names:

Justin Gray 97-256 .379 (same # of makes in 10 fewer tries)
JJ Reddick 102-258 .395 (the BEST shooter had a whopping 5 more made 3’s in 8 less tries… talk about “separation”!)

Yep, Plav was PwN3d. He obviously doesn’t belong in their company. He’s not even sniffing the top 5. Not even in the same ballpark.

So much for my freakish common sense. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

[system]

[i]Originally posted by KTown49er+Aug 11 2004, 09:31 PM-->

[b]QUOTE[/b] (KTown49er @ Aug 11 2004, 09:31 PM)

[system]

[i]Originally posted by NinerAdvocate[/i]@Aug 11 2004, 09:36 PM [b] Since we're so obsessed with statistics, and not the underlying factors:

Charlotte FT %'s 2003-04
(Source)

Plavich .776
Clemmons .714
Brown .707
Withers .687
Sager .667

Since Plavich lead all of our scholarship players in FT shooting, it’s obvious he cannot shoot. “Better pure shooter” Chris Sager only shot .667 from the line, so, using the reasoning explained above, that’s unacceptable and he shouldn’t ever be playing. He obviously can’t shoot! And since Plav obviously cannot shoot, and he’s the best shooter on our team, NO ONE ELSE should be shooting the ball. Ever. Never mind game situations, who is or who isn’t guarding who and who we run our offense through, who carries the water for us and who other teams prepare for. It’s all decided on FT shooting. So it has been decreed, so it shall be.

By the way, Bracey Wright, who was a contender for the U20 team that Curtis played on, and is widely regarded as one of the BEST pure shooters in college basketball by a wide variety of sources from loudmouth Dickey V to NBA scouts, blew Plav away from the line. I mean just BLEW HIM AWAY last year. Observe:

Wright 142 -180 .789
Plavich 38 - 49 .776

Total freaking ownage! A whole percentage point, and three tenths! And it’s obvious that Plav’s whopping 49 trips to the line in our perimeter based offense are a representative statistical sample of his shooting prowess. It’s just so obvious. How could you deny it? I mean, if he went to the line two more times and made them both, he’d suddenly be (40-51) .784, playing in “BIG BOY” territory as an elite shooter, right? I hope he can climb that mountain! I believe in ya Plav!

Oh, and by the way, even though actual FG %, especially 3P FG % doesn’t matter (so it has been decreed), Wright (also the feature shooter on his team) owned Plav there too:

Plav 97 - 266 .365
Wright 70 - 204 .343

Oh and lest I forget some of the other names:

Justin Gray 97-256 .379 (same # of makes in 10 fewer tries)
JJ Reddick 102-258 .395 (the BEST shooter had a whopping 5 more made 3’s in 8 less tries… talk about “separation”!)

Yep, Plav was PwN3d. He obviously doesn’t belong in their company. He’s not even sniffing the top 5. Not even in the same ballpark.

So much for my freakish common sense. What was I thinking? :rolleyes: [/b]

Just because Plavmiss was the best scholarship FT shooter on a terrible FT shooting team doesnt make him one of the top five shooters in the country.
And, this just in, Bracey Wright isn’t in the top five either. Just because Dick “I know nothing” Vitale dropped his name, doesnt make him one of the best. Shame on you for using Vitale to back your argument.
Also, in that novel you called a post, did you compare Plavmiss to Justin Gray??
Justin Gray is a well rounded basketball player on both sides of the ball. Plavmiss is a one trick pony who’s only trick isn’t very good.