Gravity Payments CEO cuts his $1mil salary to $70k to pay employees same.

Ramblings
41

This is something I have thought as well. I would say middle-college though. As a college student in NC you are required to take a science with a lab, multiple liberal arts classes, but not one class on personal finance. I have always been a big proponent of this. So many graduates get out of school and don’t understand time value of money, how important early savings for retirement, how to read a HUD statement, etc. I was fortunate even to have parents who taught it, but the fact that students are not required to do this is part of the problem. Makes absolutely no sense.[/quote]

The problem with middle college timing is that you miss on the people that don’t go to college. What if I am in college and realize that the ROI on my degree is not there? The basics like how compounding interest works can be taught to young children. My kids learned about stocks and had trading accounts in high school.

42

[quote=“Niner_Alum_2000, post:37, topic:29556”]I could write a book on my thoughts on the subject, but let’s look at what a business is. It is an entity created to make money. Two of the easiest ways to make money is to create goods or services at the lowest cost possible and sale them at the highest costs possible or to sell shares of ownership. The biggest cost to producing products and/or services in most businesses is labor. Therefore, the company is always looking to keep labor costs down through a lower skilled workforce or automation.

By selling ownership to shareholders the company is using their money (loan) to run operations, invest in cost saving technologies, etc. In turn for using investor capital, investors would like to be compensated at the best rate possible. Otherwise, they will pull their funds and invest in other companies. Companies or the people who invest in them are not evil, but are just trying to be better than the next company or person.

If this CEO wants to do right by his people, he should pay them $65,000 and spend the other $5,000 teaching them how to invest and grow their money. The knowledge is what separates the wealthy from the poor. You can increase the minimum wage to $100 and not solve the issue. This is because inflation would rapidly catch up to any gains made by minimum wage increases. The government should invest in teaching money management in the public schools starting at the elementary school levels on through high school. I think the minimum wage should increase in steps to give people some breathing room before inflation catches up, but to raise it $3, $4, or doubling it at once would only hurt the economy in my opinion.

Even still, at the end of the day there will always be wealthy people and there will always be poor people. That is human nature and the way all economic systems work.[/quote]

I disagree with the bolded type. If the money in circulation stays the same, but more of it goes to folks on the lower end of the income pole I don’t believe inflation will be an issue.

The top of the market dictates the price, not the bottom. Maybe some lower cost items will go up in price (fast food) but higher end items should go down (homes).

43

This is something I have thought as well. I would say middle-college though. As a college student in NC you are required to take a science with a lab, multiple liberal arts classes, but not one class on personal finance. I have always been a big proponent of this. So many graduates get out of school and don’t understand time value of money, how important early savings for retirement, how to read a HUD statement, etc. I was fortunate even to have parents who taught it, but the fact that students are not required to do this is part of the problem. Makes absolutely no sense.[/quote]

College is great - but these are basic skills everyone needs. I say teach it in middle school right as some kids start getting jobs so that they understand how things work.[/quote]

I meant middle school through college. Every year

44

This is something I have thought as well. I would say middle-college though. As a college student in NC you are required to take a science with a lab, multiple liberal arts classes, but not one class on personal finance. I have always been a big proponent of this. So many graduates get out of school and don’t understand time value of money, how important early savings for retirement, how to read a HUD statement, etc. I was fortunate even to have parents who taught it, but the fact that students are not required to do this is part of the problem. Makes absolutely no sense.[/quote]

College is great - but these are basic skills everyone needs. I say teach it in middle school right as some kids start getting jobs so that they understand how things work.[/quote]

I meant middle school through college. Every year[/quote]

Ah yes - total agreement

45

This is something I have thought as well. I would say middle-college though. As a college student in NC you are required to take a science with a lab, multiple liberal arts classes, but not one class on personal finance. I have always been a big proponent of this. So many graduates get out of school and don’t understand time value of money, how important early savings for retirement, how to read a HUD statement, etc. I was fortunate even to have parents who taught it, but the fact that students are not required to do this is part of the problem. Makes absolutely no sense.[/quote]

College is great - but these are basic skills everyone needs. I say teach it in middle school right as some kids start getting jobs so that they understand how things work.[/quote]

I meant middle school through college. Every year[/quote]

lol, that makes sense now.

46

[quote=“Charlotte2002, post:42, topic:29556”][quote=“Niner_Alum_2000, post:37, topic:29556”]I could write a book on my thoughts on the subject, but let’s look at what a business is. It is an entity created to make money. Two of the easiest ways to make money is to create goods or services at the lowest cost possible and sale them at the highest costs possible or to sell shares of ownership. The biggest cost to producing products and/or services in most businesses is labor. Therefore, the company is always looking to keep labor costs down through a lower skilled workforce or automation.

By selling ownership to shareholders the company is using their money (loan) to run operations, invest in cost saving technologies, etc. In turn for using investor capital, investors would like to be compensated at the best rate possible. Otherwise, they will pull their funds and invest in other companies. Companies or the people who invest in them are not evil, but are just trying to be better than the next company or person.

If this CEO wants to do right by his people, he should pay them $65,000 and spend the other $5,000 teaching them how to invest and grow their money. The knowledge is what separates the wealthy from the poor. You can increase the minimum wage to $100 and not solve the issue. This is because inflation would rapidly catch up to any gains made by minimum wage increases. The government should invest in teaching money management in the public schools starting at the elementary school levels on through high school. I think the minimum wage should increase in steps to give people some breathing room before inflation catches up, but to raise it $3, $4, or doubling it at once would only hurt the economy in my opinion.

Even still, at the end of the day there will always be wealthy people and there will always be poor people. That is human nature and the way all economic systems work.[/quote]

I disagree with the bolded type. If the money in circulation stays the same, but more of it goes to folks on the lower end of the income pole I don’t believe inflation will be an issue.

The top of the market dictates the price, not the bottom. Maybe some lower cost items will go up in price (fast food) but higher end items should go down (homes).[/quote]

I disagree and here is why. It is not only fast food workers and retail that are minimum wage workers. Look at what goes into a home such as lumber, wire, plastics, concrete, etc. Many of these things are manufactured in the Southern half of the US just like where all of the other US manufacturing is relocating to. The reason is because of low wage workers. These people make just above minimum wage so any bump in minimum wage would automatically warrant a bump in these salaries. You can’t tell a guy/girl who is making $12/hr that you are keeping him/her at $12/hr when minimum wage is increased.

Even fast food will take a bigger hit than most expect. First, the people who process the meat, create the packaging materials, and bake the breads will want more money causing the cost of goods to increase. This is before the fast food companies have to factor in the wage hikes for their employees. The entire supply chain will be affected by a large minimum wage hike. Also, the same folks that create the raw materials for the fast food industry also do so for companies who supply the grocery stores.

The end result to a large wage hike is going to be automation and a reduced workforce. McDonald’s is already looking at this on the west coast with self ordering kiosks. You can’t go into a grocery store today without seeing a self checkout. This is what the future is going to with increases in labor rates. It is people complaining to the point that they eliminate their own jobs.

47

[quote=“Niner_Alum_2000, post:46, topic:29556”]The end result to a large wage hike is going to be automation and a reduced workforce. McDonald’s is already looking at this on the west coast with self ordering kiosks. You can’t go into a grocery store today without seeing a self checkout. This is what the future is going to with increases in labor rates. It is people complaining to the point that they eliminate their own jobs.[/quote]Even if you took minimum wage away companies will still move towards automation.

To me, it’s simple. Someone working 40 hours a week shouldn’t be below poverty and generally shouldn’t be on gov’t assistance programs.

48

why 40?

49

why 40?[/quote]Because that’s what I consider a full-time position. 8 Hours, 5 days a week.

Honestly, it could (arguably should) be less, but not in today’s climate.

50

In 2011:

5.2% of the hourly workers in the country were paid at or below the minimum wage.
About half of them over the age of 25. This is not full time workers - it is all hourly workers.
Nearly 74 Million workers total were paid hourly rates
In 1979 13.4% of the hourly workers made minimum wage compared to the 5.2 in 2011
6 out of 10 workers making min wage or less work in the service industry where many recieve commissions or tips
Part time workers (under 35 hours) nearly 25% of those that make min wage or less
13% of min wage or less earners have less than a HS diploma

So basically out of the 5.2% making min wage or less (3.8 million in 2011) half of them are under 25. Also out of about half of the 5.2% there is a significant chance they are making additional compensation in tips. And 13% of these people do not have a HS diploma.

I def think there is an issue with senior level pay and I can agree that yes min wage needs to be increased some - but it is important to look at the actual data. I am sure now someone will say but what about the person making .25 over min wage - I don’t feel like digging any more today.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm

51

I’m in favor of cutting corporate welfare, teaching money management to kids, and don’t buy from the automatic machine at the grocery store. Anyone who does is complicit in firings. I always go to a person checkout.

52

[quote=“Niner_Alum_2000, post:46, topic:29556”][quote=“Charlotte2002, post:42, topic:29556”][quote=“Niner_Alum_2000, post:37, topic:29556”]I could write a book on my thoughts on the subject, but let’s look at what a business is. It is an entity created to make money. Two of the easiest ways to make money is to create goods or services at the lowest cost possible and sale them at the highest costs possible or to sell shares of ownership. The biggest cost to producing products and/or services in most businesses is labor. Therefore, the company is always looking to keep labor costs down through a lower skilled workforce or automation.

By selling ownership to shareholders the company is using their money (loan) to run operations, invest in cost saving technologies, etc. In turn for using investor capital, investors would like to be compensated at the best rate possible. Otherwise, they will pull their funds and invest in other companies. Companies or the people who invest in them are not evil, but are just trying to be better than the next company or person.

If this CEO wants to do right by his people, he should pay them $65,000 and spend the other $5,000 teaching them how to invest and grow their money. The knowledge is what separates the wealthy from the poor. You can increase the minimum wage to $100 and not solve the issue. This is because inflation would rapidly catch up to any gains made by minimum wage increases. The government should invest in teaching money management in the public schools starting at the elementary school levels on through high school. I think the minimum wage should increase in steps to give people some breathing room before inflation catches up, but to raise it $3, $4, or doubling it at once would only hurt the economy in my opinion.

Even still, at the end of the day there will always be wealthy people and there will always be poor people. That is human nature and the way all economic systems work.[/quote]

I disagree with the bolded type. If the money in circulation stays the same, but more of it goes to folks on the lower end of the income pole I don’t believe inflation will be an issue.

The top of the market dictates the price, not the bottom. Maybe some lower cost items will go up in price (fast food) but higher end items should go down (homes).[/quote]

I disagree and here is why. It is not only fast food workers and retail that are minimum wage workers. Look at what goes into a home such as lumber, wire, plastics, concrete, etc. Many of these things are manufactured in the Southern half of the US just like where all of the other US manufacturing is relocating to. The reason is because of low wage workers. These people make just above minimum wage so any bump in minimum wage would automatically warrant a bump in these salaries. You can’t tell a guy/girl who is making $12/hr that you are keeping him/her at $12/hr when minimum wage is increased.

Even fast food will take a bigger hit than most expect. First, the people who process the meat, create the packaging materials, and bake the breads will want more money causing the cost of goods to increase. This is before the fast food companies have to factor in the wage hikes for their employees. The entire supply chain will be affected by a large minimum wage hike. Also, the same folks that create the raw materials for the fast food industry also do so for companies who supply the grocery stores.

The end result to a large wage hike is going to be automation and a reduced workforce. McDonald’s is already looking at this on the west coast with self ordering kiosks. You can’t go into a grocery store today without seeing a self checkout. This is what the future is going to with increases in labor rates. It is people complaining to the point that they eliminate their own jobs.[/quote]

Do you think companies will automate themselves out of business? They need people to have jobs to buy their crap.

53

clt applauds this discussion. Good points, and no mention of lebo, will wade, Apple state, the observer, unccc Charlotte, sloppy joe, major’s hairline, fantasy dollars, Bruce tall, hair dryers, Byron dinkins, good ol roy, the c pick, blue line, CHP, dee tolliver, the inevitable sec move, Obama, football lights, just saying, seat backs, cheap 49er sweatshirts, massive academic fraud at another state school, Britt mchenry and the Spanish Inquistion.

54

I heard about this thread at burger King

55

I think things are done with good intentions in mind, but no one thinks about the repercussions. Companies will do whatever it takes to make larger profits. You can’t think about the people who run the company. It is their fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the company. If that means automation to turn a profit this year then so be it regardless of the impacts in 10 years.

Look at the government’s drive to make automobiles more fuel efficient. Good for the environment so it is good for everyone, right. Crap, they forgot about the taxes from each gallon of gas that they lost because cars can go much farther on a gallon. Now the highway infrastructure sucks.

Also, the drive to stop smoking pretty much killed the tax revenue from tobacco. Hopefully, they will legalize pot to help us offset the losses.

Minimum wage hikes is the next thing that sounds good on paper, but will suck for most if not all of us. I am all for helping poor people get ahead, but a large hike in the minimum wage is likely going to bring the middle class even closer in line with the poverty level. This will be the opposite of spreading the wealth. Wealthy people could care less if a restaurant, Wal-Mart, or grocery store prices increase. These are things that people on a budget worry about. The wealthy are the ones invested in the companies that will increase these costs.

56

Minimum wage hikes is the next thing that sounds good on paper, but will suck for most if not all of us.[/quote]

I’d like to point out that the belief that a raise in the minimum wage actually harms economic growth and middle class families has been largely debunked by most peered reviewed journals the past 15 years. Much like trickle down economics, this is a vestige of a particular economic theory of the 80’s. It just doesnt bear out in the reality of local municipalities that have taken it upon themselves to raise the minimum wage.

57

Minimum wage hikes is the next thing that sounds good on paper, but will suck for most if not all of us.[/quote]

I’d like to point out that the belief that a raise in the minimum wage actually harms economic growth and middle class families has been largely debunked by most peered reviewed journals the past 15 years. Much like trickle down economics, this is a vestige of a particular economic theory of the 80’s. It just doesnt bear out in the reality of local municipalities that have taken it upon themselves to raise the minimum wage.[/quote]
Doesn’t a rise in minimum wage actually increase the poverty level line as well? Not saying that’s a reason to do it or not do it, just that folks that are at the line with today’s minimum wage may very well be at the same line with a new minimum wage, etc.

58

It creates more consumer activity, which reciprocates and expands throughout the economy. It is a good thing.

59

Minimum wage hikes is the next thing that sounds good on paper, but will suck for most if not all of us.[/quote]

I’d like to point out that the belief that a raise in the minimum wage actually harms economic growth and middle class families has been largely debunked by most peered reviewed journals the past 15 years. Much like trickle down economics, this is a vestige of a particular economic theory of the 80’s. It just doesnt bear out in the reality of local municipalities that have taken it upon themselves to raise the minimum wage.[/quote]

I think the question is though what is the impact if you double it nationwide. When it is being raised locally and the impact is muted that is one thing. So this one area may pay their servers 2 dollars more an hour, but their suppliers are still paying the lower wage. The local owner can either higher one less person or simply take less money themselves or a national owner can deal with it because it is a small portion of their business. If however everyone accross the nation was suddenly paying $15 an hour what is the impact of that? Will every company simply take a loss? Will they raise prices to offset their increased costs - since at most companies labor is the highest cost associate with the business? The fact is if you increase your costs the money has to come from somewhere. You say it won’t have an impact - so what is your story on where the money comes from?

Also important to note we already have lost many low pay manufacturing jobs over seas. Those jobs are finally starting to return because it is evening out over seas with a growing middle class and expecations in those countries. 20 years of US manufacturing over seas has elevated social classes there. Would increasing the minimum wage here stop the reshoring that is happening? Might not be a big deal since the stats say over half of the min wage earners are in service industries, but still important to consider.

Lastly - and I mention this before. At $15 an hour those with out a HS diploma are now close to a first year teacher. In fact by hours worked they would make more than a teacher since a typical teacher puts in more than 40 hours. I have a serious problem with this and I don’t trust the government to take any increased revenue to pay a teacher more. Not to mention that at $15 an hour you start hitting a pay grade of many entry level jobs where a college degree is expected. I am not even going to go into if I have worked at a resteraunt for 2 years and worked myself to be rewarded with making $2 more an hour and then the new guys comes in and we are both making the same amount? So the business owner now has to increase the starter to $15 and me to $17?

Like many things I think it sounds great until you start thinking about impact. I do think it needs to be raised and I think it needs to be raised every 2 years so that it stays with inflation and companies can plan for it. I don’t think raising minumum wage to $15 dollars makes any sense.

60

$15 an hour is about the pay of a pharmacy tech or brick mason. $15 an hour over a 40 hour work week at 52 weeks is about the salary of a school teacher with a 4 year degree in the south with some experience.

It’s laughable that the bare minimum skilled employee is worth the same.