Is there really any possible way that...

Fordham, St Bonnaventure, Duquesne, and Lasalle could get kicked out of the A-10?

Take out those 4 teams, add Charlotte and SLU, and you have a solid ten team A-10

I hope I’m wrong but I’ve heard Bruno does have the (girl’s version) balls to make such changes.

and st louis is it too early to kick them out?

[i]Originally posted by Chisox17[/i]@Dec 14 2004, 08:42 PM [b] Fordham, St Bonnaventure, Duquesne, and Lasalle could get kicked out of the A-10?

Take out those 4 teams, add Charlotte and SLU, and you have a solid ten team A-10 [/b]


The way Saint Louis is playing this year, the Billikens will be lucky to crack double digits in the W column. They have already lost 3 games in Savvis (Oral Roberts, Hawaii, and Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple of more home losses to Oakland tonight and Dayton on Saturday.

BTW, the SLU website says that the Charlotte game on February 12th in St. Louis has been changed to an evening tipoff of 7:30 CST (8:30 EST).

Billikens Change Two Savvis Dates to Saturday Nights

Anyway, back to the original thought. Yes, the A-10 should review the progress of the so-called bottom feeders. As of today, there is only one A-10 team with a winning record.

East

Fordham 3-4
Massachusetts 3-3
Rhode Island 2-6
St. Bonaventure 0-6
Saint Joseph’s 3-3
Temple 3-5

West

Dayton 3-3
Duquesne 2-7
George Washington 6-1
La Salle 1-5
Richmond 3-3
Xavier 2-3

Future A-10

Charlotte 5-2
Saint Louis 1-6

My God, please tell me the outlook for the A-10 is better for the future than I’m seeing this year. Had no idea it was that bad. I know Temple plays an unbelievable schedule, so they get a pass. But there’s no excuse for anyone else. That was an ugly post I probably didn’t want to see. Wow.
-G-

The future has to be brighter than the current situation in the A-10. It’s a shame, because there is a lot of historical talent in that league. But some of those teams are in dire need of ressurecting their programs. Maybe we can add a spark when he hop on board because as it stands, it’s pretty darn sad.

And if people want to complain about our current home schedule, get ready to file in Halton for the Fordhams, La Salles and Duquesnes of the basketball world. CUSA may not be the greatest conference but we’ll sorely miss having Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, etc. pay us visits.

I still think it was the best move for us but there is a lot of room for improvement in the A-10 and the potential is there.

[i]Originally posted by jcl49er[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 01:13 PM [b]And if people want to complain about our [i]current[/i] home schedule, get ready to file in Halton for the Fordhams, La Salles and Duquesnes of the basketball world. [/b]
Sorta like Southern Miss, Tulane, Houston, and South Florida.
[i]Originally posted by run49er+Dec 15 2004, 01:39 PM-->
[b]QUOTE[/b] (run49er @ Dec 15 2004, 01:39 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-jcl49er[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 01:13 PM [b]And if people want to complain about our [i]current[/i] home schedule, get ready to file in Halton for the Fordhams, La Salles and Duquesnes of the basketball world. [/b] Sorta like Southern Miss, Tulane, Houston, and South Florida. [/b][/quote] Our future affiliation and schedules have me a little worried about ticket sales too. If we adopt a similar format as we have now (play everyone once, "rivals" twice) it will compound matters. I think some season ticket holders will be hesitant to repurchase with the likes of LaSalle, St. Bona, UNC-As, etc. dominating the schedule. Just not attractive....sad but true.

Interesting thing will be to see if we can get some home & aways with upper echelon teams. I know we’ve tried hard…Indiana, Alabama, er, um, Arizona. We’ll need these games for NCAA Tourny resumes.

[i]Originally posted by run49er[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 01:39 PM [b] Sorta like Southern Miss, Tulane, Houston, and South Florida. [/b]
We can call that a [i]push[/i] I guess but I think comparing the top tier of both leagues is more appealing under the current situation. Even if they improve, what's the incentive for the casual fans coming out to Halton to see Temple, Umass, Xavier or St. Joe's over Cincy, Memphis, Louisville and Marquette. At least with the latter, you have some quality coaches (with the exception of Calipari :P )
[i]Originally posted by jcl49er[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 03:10 PM [b] Even if they improve, what's the incentive for the casual fans coming out to Halton to see Temple, Umass, Xavier or St. Joe's over Cincy, Memphis, Louisville and Marquette. At least with the latter, you have some quality coaches (with the exception of Calipari :P ) [/b]
The A-10 does have John Chaney, Phil Martelli, Jerry Wainwright, and Jim Baron, not to mention up-and-comer Karl Hobbs.

JCL, I know what you mean, though. Still, I’ve said this before - the casual fan in Charlotte isn’t very sophisticated when it comes to college hoops. We all know that the Niners play top-notch basketball, as does Conference USA, but we might as well be the SoCon (no offense to our cross-county foe!) to the masses.

I think I’ve gotten to the point where I only want the real fans at our home games – the ones who are going to show up whether we play Duke or Duquesne, North Carolina or NC A&T, etc. You and I know that we will have formidable A-10 competition in the likes of Xavier, Dayton, Saint Joe’s, George Washington, Rhode Island, Richmond, Temple, UMass (if they get rid of Steve Lappas!), and hopefully Saint Louis. Sprinkle that with the likes of Indiana, Alabama, South Carolina, etc. and we should be okay.

You’re right, though, about Duquesne, LaSalle, St. Bonnie, and Fordham (though the latter has the Dereck Whittenburg/NC State angle to play on).

[i]Originally posted by GMadness[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 01:04 PM [b] My God, please tell me the outlook for the A-10 is better for the future than I'm seeing this year. Had no idea it was that bad. I know Temple plays an unbelievable schedule, so they get a pass. But there's no excuse for anyone else. That was an ugly post I probably didn't want to see. Wow. -G- [/b]
Hey...A GW fan here...I posted this the other day in another thread about the future of the A10. You can't use this year as a measuring stick for the league. Like someone here already said, the A10 has historically been a strong league with some very well respected programs and coaches. This year is just a down year due to a few things.
  1. Its a letdown when compared to last years run by #1 in the country St. Joes, TWO Elite Eight Teams (Xavier, SJU), and FOUR Tourney teams. That was a great year for the league and most would argue above expectations. Anything else is gonna pale in comparison. Just think about SJU…they were still hyped for this year even after they lost 80% of their scoring to the NBA…its just a big letdown after one great season.

  2. Injuries. Teams like URI, Temple, Xavier, and Duquense were all supposed to be contenders this year. Due to injuries they have had difficulty living up to that, but the season is still young.

  3. Young teams. Look at Xavier and Dayton as the perfect example. Those two teams have dominated the A10 for years. They graduated guys like David West (NBA) and Sato and Chalmers…any team who loses talent like that in 2 years needs a year to rebuild a bit. They’ll be back (unfortunately – you will soon find out what I mean).

One final note regarding RPI’s and OOC games and regular conference games. The A10 has had the #1 Non-Con schedule in the nation since the 1999-2000 season. We have 4 wins against Top 15 opponents this year (my GDub with 2 of those) with even more last year (I forget them but Richmond’s win over Kansas comes to mind)…All this said I think the A10 will return to glory again next year and with Charlotte’s addition to the league it will be even stronger (Hopefully they’ll put Charlotte in the West with GW, X, Dayton, and Richmond). Charlotte and St. Louis (hopefully) are what can push the A10 out of Mid-Major Purgatory for good and into the ranks of the big boys.

lets hope so.

I really do think they should drop back to a 10 team league.

Playing richmond, xavier, temple, gw, st. joes, saint louis, umass, uri, and dayton twice a year would be pretty strong. I think twice a year would also helo the rivalries. And we would have one of the few leagues with a true champion. You can’t have a true champion unless you play everyone the same number of times.

I think GW is correct. This is just a down year for the league given their loses to the NBA and graduation. I look for improvement next year and for Charlotte to dominate if Withers and Iti return. :toast:

[i]Originally posted by run49er[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 04:14 PM [b] I think I've gotten to the point where I only want the real fans at our home games -- the ones who are going to show up whether we play Duke or Duquesne, North Carolina or NC A&T, etc. [/b]
Amen...right there with ya on that one Run. If you can't justify going to a game like Georgia State, UNC-A or Long Beach State, then don't even bother showing up for Cincy or Louisville. Those games are easy to be a fan at but it's the others that reveal the true colors.

And I’m not talking about not going because of holidays, work, church, family problems, etc. I’m talking strictly about those who just can’t get psyched up for inferior opponents, because every single game is important in the big picture. I hope the A-10 gets back on track in the next year or two to help fill the void of losing the crowd-drawing teams/coaches of CUSA. If teams like St. Joes, Dayton, Xavier, etc. can get back to being top 30 teams on a regular basis, then it will become a very strong league. But if it hovers where it’s at, we’re going to be labled a mid-major conference which I cringe at.

[i]Originally posted by minerniner[/i]@Dec 15 2004, 08:53 PM [b] lets hope so.

I really do think they should drop back to a 10 team league.

Playing richmond, xavier, temple, gw, st. joes, saint louis, umass, uri, and dayton twice a year would be pretty strong. I think twice a year would also helo the rivalries. And we would have one of the few leagues with a true champion. You can’t have a true champion unless you play everyone the same number of times.

I think GW is correct. This is just a down year for the league given their loses to the NBA and graduation. I look for improvement next year and for Charlotte to dominate if Withers and Iti return. :toast: [/b]


That would be one HECK of a conference schedule… Those are legit teams who have the potential to be in the post-season each year. There really is not a “down” game in that lineup. Anyone know if there has been any talk about dropping the ‘bottom’ teams of the A10?

I’m not aware that the A-10 is looking to pare down, though I wouldn’t be surprised to see some teams (Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle) look for more appropriate affiliations in mid-major conferences. I’m not ready to dismiss St. Bonaventure just yet due the bizarre circumstances surrounding their recent downfall from the upper echelon of the A-10. If Linda Bruno is looking for a NYC presence, then Manhattan is a much better fit.

[i]Originally posted by run49er[/i]@Dec 16 2004, 11:05 AM [b] I'm not aware that the A-10 is looking to pare down, though I wouldn't be surprised to see some teams (Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle) look for more appropriate affiliations in mid-major conferences. [/b]
I heard something about the A10 implementing new standards/objectives for it's members to meet. Hopefully something that would be looked at next year once us and SLU are in-house.

The Atlantic 10 does have a policy in place for basketball scheduling (too low of an average RPI). Of course it remains to be seen if that would matter in getting rid of the bottom feeders, they can schedule a top 5 team and just take the $$$.

From A-10 Policy Manual…
SCHEDULING GUIDELINES-NON-CONFERENCE GAMES
8.01 No member institution may schedule a non-Division I opponent during the season, except exhibition games and as a permissible alternative to the Foreign Team in US and USA Basketball Club Team exemptions.
8.02 If an Atlantic 10 institution is participating in a tournament in which a non-Division I institution is also participating, the Atlantic 10 institution may not play the non-Division I opponent in the first round of the tournament.
8.03 The following requirements must be met by all Atlantic 10 women’s basketball teams. The penalty for noncompliance is outlined in the Conference Constitution & Bylaws.
A. Each women’s team must maintain a 2.0 average for all non-conference games scheduled. The RPI at the conclusion of the NCAA Tournament of the preceding season will be used for the pre-season analysis and the current season’s pre-NCAA Tournament RPI will be used for the post-season analysis. The point values are as follows:
Ranked 1-50 in the RPI: 4 points
Ranked 51-100 in the RPI: 3 points
Ranked 101-125 in the RPI: 2.5 points
Ranked 126-150 in the RPI: 2 points
Ranked 151-175 in the RPI: 1 point
Ranked 176-200 in the RPI: 0.5 points
Ranked 201 + in the RPI: 0 points
B. Any Atlantic 10 institution playing a non-conference game against an opponent from the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC or Big East will receive no less than 2 points, regardless of the team’s RPI.
C. Any Atlantic 10 institution playing a non-conference game against an opponent from the PAC-10 or Conference USA will receive no less than 1 point, regardless of the team’s RPI.
8.04 The following requirements must be met by all Atlantic 10 men’s basketball teams. The penalty for noncompliance is outlined in the Conference Constitution & Bylaws.
A. Each men’s team must maintain a 1.8 average for all non-conference games scheduled. The RPI at the conclusion of the NCAA Tournament of the preceding season will be used for the pre-season analysis and the current season’s pre-NCAA Tournament RPI will be used for the post-season analysis. The point values are as follows:
Ranked 1-50 in the RPI: 4 points
Ranked 51-100 in the RPI: 3 points
Ranked 101-125 in the RPI: 2.5 points
Ranked 126-150 in the RPI: 2 points
Ranked 151-175 in the RPI: 1 point
Ranked 176-200 in the RPI: 0.5 points
Ranked 201 + in the RPI: 0 points
B. Any Atlantic 10 institution playing a non-conference game against an opponent from the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, PAC-10 or Big East will receive no less than 2 points, regardless of the team’s RPI.
C. Any Atlantic 10 institution playing a non-conference game against an opponent from Conference USA or Mountain West will receive no less than 1 point, regardless of the team’s RPI.
8.05 An institution is permitted to fall short of the 2.0 requirement for women and a 1.8 for men twice in a 3-year period without being subject to the financial penalty. This exception is contingent on the overall conference scheduling average to be ing above a 2.3. The conference average will be determined entering the start of the season. If, at that time, it falls below a 2.3, the average will be calculated once more at the end of the season. When the final average is calculated, it shall then be determined if institutions which fell below a 2.0 /1.8 are subject to the financial penalties. Effective with the 2003-04 season.

Wow, an A-10 team gets more points for scheduling a Big 10 or PAC-10 team than one from C-USA. Hmmm…

[b]Any Atlantic 10 institution playing a non-conference game against an opponent from the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, PAC-10 or Big East will receive no less than 2 points, regardless of the team’s RPI.[/b]
Yep, that should tell you where we'll be attempting to schedule a few OOC games. Playing the bottom feeders of those conferences is a plus as far as the A-10's thinking.

HP, I guess they’ll have to update the points system after this season to factor C-USA out of the 1-point list. Perhaps they will move the PAC-10 to the 1-point group! :lol: