I would be okay with either FCS independent or CAA membership. The Colonial isnât a ton worse than the A14, and it would be interesting to see old rivals like ODU and VCU. There would be closer games for travel; New York and Philly would be the farthest rather than some of the closest cities. If for the short term, we will be in a conference that draws no interest from the non-diehard part of the fanbase, at least it will be against UNCW and schools we fit with geographically.
[quote=â49erAlumnus, post:20, topic:25469â]If we are going FBS quickly, then by all means, stay independent. However, if we are staying FCS for a while (which our âChancellorâ seems to indicate from time to time) then I think we need a conference. I disagree that no one cares about the playoffs. Three straight national titles are what put App St in the position they are in today. Just my two cents.[/quote]Can I disagree with your first bolded comment and agree with the second? FCS fans care about championships, but Walmart fans do not pull for FCS schools, so most people do not care. I do agree that Appâs three title have made them what they are todayâa top FCS school. Not an FBS school. They beat Michigan four years ago and have three titles but still no invite. It is because the only thing they bring to the table is those three trophies.
It would be great for us to win a championship, but when we get the FBS call it will be because the city of Charlotte is the headquarters to 10 Fortune 500 companies. It will be because we are a major research university with programs like EPIC that get national attention. We are one of the easiest away games that they can travel to with the 10th busiest airport in the US. We are in the Southeast and probably home to many of their alumni. And perhaps most importantly, they will think that they can leverage all of those assets with their brand to make us an FBS school. What we have to do is show a willingness and ability to get there.
It may be important for us to be good on the field, but I think it is more important for us to be great off the field. If those conferences are watching us they have to like the stadium we are building, and the staff we have hired for a start-up. If Major turns around hoops in the next three years we are going to look like a rising star.
I believe some of us dislike CHP so much that they have seen indications of us planning to stay FCS that arenât there or arenât that strong.
You are right, people care about the D1-AA playoff champion. I donât even know if they cared when it was only 1 championship. Either way, we arenât winning the whole thing anytime soon and regular folks would barely care about a playoff berth.[/quote]
âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS program and just do it the best way we can.â
Am I making this up? To me, this sounds like a guy who is planning on being FCS for a while.
Nugget is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.
Alumnus - That was my knee jerk too, several months ago. Now, Iâm not sure. I donât think we can tell if heâs being serious or just playing politics to appease the FCS conferencesâŚ
[quote=â49erAlumnus, post:43, topic:25469â]âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS program and just do it the best way we can.â
Am I making this up? To me, this sounds like a guy who is planning on being FCS for a while.[/quote]
if that is the case, i donât really have a problem with it honestly. Trust me, I want FBS football, but more than anything I want to know what we are doing.
If it is FCS football until I die, then let me know, let me go ahead and start getting to know the CAA better. JMU is expanding, ODU puts 20k buts in seats, GSU plays in the freaking georgia dome. not that bad of a place if that is our aspiration.
Unfortunately though weâve had the left hand doing one thing, the right hand doing another, the eyes looking a completely different direction, and the mouth not even moving.
[quote=âNugget, post:42, topic:25469â][quote=â49erAlumnus, post:20, topic:25469â]If we are going FBS quickly, then by all means, stay independent. However, if we are staying FCS for a while (which our âChancellorâ seems to indicate from time to time) then I think we need a conference. I disagree that no one cares about the playoffs. Three straight national titles are what put App St in the position they are in today. Just my two cents.[/quote]Can I disagree with your first bolded comment and agree with the second? FCS fans care about championships, but Walmart fans do not pull for FCS schools, so most people do not care. I do agree that Appâs three title have made them what they are todayâa top FCS school. Not an FBS school. They beat Michigan four years ago and have three titles but still no invite. It is because the only thing they bring to the table is those three trophies.
It would be great for us to win a championship, but when we get the FBS call it will be because the city of Charlotte is the headquarters to 10 Fortune 500 companies. It will be because we are a major research university with programs like EPIC that get national attention. We are one of the easiest away games that they can travel to with the 10th busiest airport in the US. We are in the Southeast and probably home to many of their alumni. And perhaps most importantly, they will think that they can leverage all of those assets with their brand to make us an FBS school. What we have to do is show a willingness and ability to get there.
It may be important for us to be good on the field, but I think it is more important for us to be great off the field. If those conferences are watching us they have to like the stadium we are building, and the staff we have hired for a start-up. If Major turns around hoops in the next three years we are going to look like a rising star.[/quote]
You can disagree with me any time Nugget! Youâd probably be wise to.
Now as for App, my point was that you never heard about App football until the titles, the Michigan upset and Armanti Edwards. In the two years prior to their championship run they were 7-4 and 6-5. If it wasnât for the run that theyâve been on, do you think they would be looking at moving up? Do you think their stands would be as full as they are? I tried to find attendance figures for 2003 and 2004 (the two seasons mentioned above) but gave up. I realize that App football as always been a big deal in Boone, but winning got them outside of Boone.
About what makes us attractive: The Charlotte market helps our case, but what about our ability to command that market? Currently App gets 25k in Boone. (heck, ECU gets 45k in Greenville) How do we get our numbers anywhere near those? Winning. I donât think that we get where we want to go with a small fan base in a big market. Again, I could be way off.
Can we talk about the elephant in the room? The reason CHP and Judy are trying to make FCS plans indefinitely is US. We havenât bought all the FSLs yet. We have no idea what kind of support we can drum for football once we actually start playing. If we have 2-3 seasons of completely sold out games, I say it makes us much more attractive to an FBS conference for a call up to the bigs. It also makes more financial sense to plan for a stadium expansion if we are selling out at 15k.
If however, we are filling our 15k stadium 2/3 of the way, with mediocre city support - you can bet your ass we will be stuck at FCS indefinitely. The more I think about it, the more this seems to be the major issue. CHP has no faith in our alumni, fans, or the ability of the U to penetrate the city of Charlotte.
The truth is, we need to spend as much time and attention marketing the program to the city and the WalMart fans as we are anything else. Lambert now has control over uniforms, field design, etc., so thatâs great. That doesnât mean the AD is done as Judy has sort of indicated. Instead, it means the AD has to bum-rush the city of Charlotte with advertising and more and more events to try to get the city interested.
I can promise you, if we donât market this thing to the disconnected alumni, the students, and especially the city, we will be FCS indefinitely. Itâs sad, I know we all thing the city of Charlotte will carry us - but the truth is, if we canât average 15k a game, we donât even qualify for a jump.
[quote=âNinerAdvocate, post:44, topic:25469â]Nugget is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.
Alumnus - That was my knee jerk too, several months ago. Now, Iâm not sure. I donât think we can tell if heâs being serious or just playing politics to appease the FCS conferencesâŚ[/quote]
Nugget is a good guy. Iâd vouch for him, but I donât want to hurt his credibility.
If CHP is playing politics to appease FCS conferences, howâs it working for him?
[quote=â49erAlumnus, post:46, topic:25469â][quote=âNugget, post:42, topic:25469â][quote=â49erAlumnus, post:20, topic:25469â]If we are going FBS quickly, then by all means, stay independent. However, if we are staying FCS for a while (which our âChancellorâ seems to indicate from time to time) then I think we need a conference. I disagree that no one cares about the playoffs. Three straight national titles are what put App St in the position they are in today. Just my two cents.[/quote]Can I disagree with your first bolded comment and agree with the second? FCS fans care about championships, but Walmart fans do not pull for FCS schools, so most people do not care. I do agree that Appâs three title have made them what they are todayâa top FCS school. Not an FBS school. They beat Michigan four years ago and have three titles but still no invite. It is because the only thing they bring to the table is those three trophies.
It would be great for us to win a championship, but when we get the FBS call it will be because the city of Charlotte is the headquarters to 10 Fortune 500 companies. It will be because we are a major research university with programs like EPIC that get national attention. We are one of the easiest away games that they can travel to with the 10th busiest airport in the US. We are in the Southeast and probably home to many of their alumni. And perhaps most importantly, they will think that they can leverage all of those assets with their brand to make us an FBS school. What we have to do is show a willingness and ability to get there.
It may be important for us to be good on the field, but I think it is more important for us to be great off the field. If those conferences are watching us they have to like the stadium we are building, and the staff we have hired for a start-up. If Major turns around hoops in the next three years we are going to look like a rising star.[/quote]
You can disagree with me any time Nugget! Youâd probably be wise to.
Now as for App, my point was that you never heard about App football until the titles, the Michigan upset and Armanti Edwards. In the two years prior to their championship run they were 7-4 and 6-5. If it wasnât for the run that theyâve been on, do you think they would be looking at moving up? Do you think their stands would be as full as they are? I tried to find attendance figures for 2003 and 2004 (the two seasons mentioned above) but gave up. I realize that App football as always been a big deal in Boone, but winning got them outside of Boone.
About what makes us attractive: The Charlotte market helps our case, but what about our ability to command that market? Currently App gets 25k in Boone. (heck, ECU gets 45k in Greenville) How do we get our numbers anywhere near those? Winning. I donât think that we get where we want to go with a small fan base in a big market. Again, I could be way off.[/quote]
Exactly the point of what I posted below you. I just donât know that making FCS playoffs in the city of Charlotte is going to do it. If we market excellent, then making the playoffs will be big. If we canât reach the market - it wonât matter what we do, just like CUSA days.
The fact that discussions were made with the Big South and SoCon using the term âTemporaryâ really tells a lot. It says that either we donât really want to be in those conferences, but there is just nowhere else to go. If I was a conference chair, that would be insulting to me.
I think that if we get into a conference, we will not move for awhile unless a BCS conf calls. Otherwise, if the CAA falls through I think we will stay independent until we break the FBS door down. I think staying independent will be our fastest route to FBS, but I still think the CAA would be a good fit.
[quote=âUniversal Niner, post:50, topic:25469â]The fact that discussions were made with the Big South and SoCon using the term âTemporaryâ really tells a lot. It says that either we donât really want to be in those conferences, but there is just nowhere else to go. If I was a conference chair, that would be insulting to me.
I think that if we get into a conference, we will not move for awhile unless a BCS conf calls. Otherwise, if the CAA falls through I think we will stay independent until we break the FBS door down. I think staying independent will be our fastest route to FBS, but I still think the CAA would be a good fit.[/quote]
I am just worried that the CAA says no to us for Football only, then we refuse to move all our sports to CAA. We are stuck as an Independent for who knows how long without an FBS conference coming to save us and our football program fails because of it.
[quote=âMr. Bojangles, post:51, topic:25469â][quote=âUniversal Niner, post:50, topic:25469â]The fact that discussions were made with the Big South and SoCon using the term âTemporaryâ really tells a lot. It says that either we donât really want to be in those conferences, but there is just nowhere else to go. If I was a conference chair, that would be insulting to me.
I think that if we get into a conference, we will not move for awhile unless a BCS conf calls. Otherwise, if the CAA falls through I think we will stay independent until we break the FBS door down. I think staying independent will be our fastest route to FBS, but I still think the CAA would be a good fit.[/quote]
I am just worried that the CAA says no to us for Football only, then we refuse to move all our sports to CAA. We are stuck as an Independent for who knows how long without an FBS conference coming to save us and our football program fails because of it.[/quote]
I would hope to god that the AD knows that independent in FCS isnt sustainable. So if we donât work out a deal with CAA then they know what they are doing with regards to FBS.
Iâm not a big fan of our Admin and Athletics Department putting us into a position to look like we got rejected by a bottom feeder conference in FCS. I canât even imagine what Judy was thinking when she told David Scott about the Big South? She VOLUNTEERED that info!
Iâve seen a few things that make me think the Big South skipped us because our budget for football is twice as much as anyone else in the BS. The problem is it doesnât look that way to the public at large. We canât explain this to the average fans/Joe Q. Public because it would make the BS look bad as a conference and we have to schedule their schools in football.
Also have seen some rumors that App and Georgia Southern pushed to get us in the SoCon but the private schools rejected it. None of which will ever be public because we have to schedule them TOO.
This whole damn thing has been a public relations FUBAR since the news came out last Friday about the presentation to the SoCon. Never helps when the AD publically lets the conferences that we might want to join in football know she thinks that their basketball sucks donkeyballz.
We need to be on friendly terms with these schools for however long we play FCS. If we donât have a CUSA invite in writting in Britton Banowsky and Terry Hollandâs blood then she and Phil sure are brass balling the FCS world right now.
What I donât get: Why would the CAA want to have anything to do with a SoCon and BIG SOUTH reject?
Do you have those numbers by chance?
I voted CAA full membership, but that is contingent on the idea that we will be FCS for 10+ years.
If that is, in fact, the case⌠then we are putting all of our programs at risk by keeping our football in an unsustainable environment.
I am sure not going to say that there is a grand plan and we are executing itâthat would give us more credit than I am comfortable withâbut there is no way I believe the Athletic Dept laid all their cards on the table. We know that just isnât how they operate. We have seen this time and time again.
We know that the NCAA says you have to play FCS for 2 (or is it 3?) years before you can even apply to be FBS. I know that we have had a conversation with the NCAA and were told that if an FBS opportunity was presented to us sooner there is an exception process where that requirement could be waived. I wonder if we try âdesperatelyâ to get into an FCS conference but nobody will take us, then an FBS conference offers a home if that strengthens our position for an exception? Certainly the NCAA tilts in favor of conference membership.
I have this feeling that we are standing in the on-deck circle and want to stay there for now, not because we know what is going to happen, but because we know we need to be ready when it does. I canât think of anything that sends a stronger signal that we want to be in the bigs than the $60 million football expansion line item in the future budget. There is some backroom politicing going on, I am just sure of it.
Do you have those numbers by chance?
For us or the BS average?
Ours was in the range of $6.5 million annually from the feasability committee numbers (probably havenât gone done since).
As for them not sure but Coastal and Liberty would be at the top end if you can find thereâs.
I believe some of us dislike CHP so much that they have seen indications of us planning to stay FCS that arenât there or arenât that strong.
You are right, people care about the D1-AA playoff champion. I donât even know if they cared when it was only 1 championship. Either way, we arenât winning the whole thing anytime soon and regular folks would barely care about a playoff berth.[/quote]
âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS program and just do it the best way we can.â
Am I making this up? To me, this sounds like a guy who is planning on being FCS for a while.[/quote]
Hah. I actually replied to someone about this very quote in another thread. Iâll just paste it.
[quote=â49or bust, post:121, topic:25451â][quote=âHXC Niner, post:103, topic:25451â]I keep thinking there is a secret master plan and then every time I get my hopes up there is some CHP quote about him trying to slow the progression.
âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS proglram and just do it the best way we can.â[/quote] I'm pretty sure you are reading into this wrong. This is important with that:
Dubois acknowledges that when the 49ersâ football feasibility committee publically recommended moving up to FBS, their chances at finding a temporlary conference might have been hurt.
âWe needed to SAY weâreâŚâ He wasnât saying we should go slow, he was saying we should have SAID something neutral like âdo the best we canâ so that at this point we still had more options. Basically we jumped into the poker game and laid down one of our cards off the bat.[/quote]
I believe some of us dislike CHP so much that they have seen indications of us planning to stay FCS that arenât there or arenât that strong.
You are right, people care about the D1-AA playoff champion. I donât even know if they cared when it was only 1 championship. Either way, we arenât winning the whole thing anytime soon and regular folks would barely care about a playoff berth.[/quote]
âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS program and just do it the best way we can.â
Am I making this up? To me, this sounds like a guy who is planning on being FCS for a while.[/quote]
Hah. I actually replied to someone about this very quote in another thread. Iâll just paste it.
[quote=â49or bust, post:121, topic:25451â][quote=âHXC Niner, post:103, topic:25451â]I keep thinking there is a secret master plan and then every time I get my hopes up there is some CHP quote about him trying to slow the progression.
âWeâve got to crawl before we walk, walk before we run,â said Dubois, who added that he didnât agree with the FBS recommendation. âThe committee did an outstanding job, but we needed to say weâre going to start football as an FCS proglram and just do it the best way we can.â[/quote] I'm pretty sure you are reading into this wrong. This is important with that:
Dubois acknowledges that when the 49ersâ football feasibility committee publically recommended moving up to FBS, their chances at finding a temporlary conference might have been hurt.
âWe needed to SAY weâreâŚâ He wasnât saying we should go slow, he was saying we should have SAID something neutral like âdo the best we canâ so that at this point we still had more options. Basically we jumped into the poker game and laid down one of our cards off the bat.[/quote][/quote]
I get what youâre saying bust, I do. I see the semantics in play there. However this is where my distrust of CHP comes into play.
BTW, this is just the latest statement. There are others. When I get a chance Iâll try to dig them up.
Donât bother. I know what you are talking about. I donât like CHP either. Iâm just saying, I think some of yall let your distrust/dislike of him get the better of you sometimes. I could be wrong as well.