Recruiting in General - 2006

Is anyone else really worried? I mean, Tatum is the only think that there were many people on this board excited about for a while before he signed. And from the information i can find the kid is a great player. Carlos Williams sounds like a star too, but where will jerrell lewis and lee goldwire fit into the mix at that point. One of them will drop down to SG and with Alexander and jamison both being seniors at the 3 spot. I dont know where everyone fits in. Maybe we redshirt some guys (plural) but that doesnt really happen in basketball. Ian Anderson kinda popped up a while before signing but at that point we had tatum. Dewhurst thread was dead in the water, and two days ago i couldnt tell you who Sean Phaler was. The thing that worries me the most is we still have no big man, no i do not consider phaler a big man, and the fact that look at the list of teams we competed against for dewhurst, phaler and anderson. Hopefully phaler and anderson are just victims of west coast bias. Any comments?

i think you are overanalyzing things again. Lutz never has a problem recruiting players because he so good at it. If you worry about this you need to be flogged for being retarded. We generally get our big men from juco now because he is setting up the team for success. Since we have our name as a big juco receiving team that does decently we won’t have a problem getting players from juco. You have to remember we have antwon coleman too and he alone is masssssssssssive. Open your eyes and don’t worry ID lutz has everything under control.

[b]Lutz never has a problem recruiting players because he so good at it.[/b]

Should I laugh or have a glass of koolaid?

[b] If you worry about this you need to be flogged for being retarded. [/b]

I wanted comments not criticism. You didnt address a single point I made yet went of on…

the juco tangent which begins…

[b]We generally get our big men from juco now because he is setting up the team for success.[/b]

How many more years of this? How many more years of “setting up” for success? I guess while teams like UWM, Vermont and Manhattan are busy making it to at least the second round of a tourney we are building a trip to the final four over a decade. (off of 2 years and done juco’s)

The only thing I’m “worried” about is we do need to get another big man. At this point it’s probably going to have to be JUCO since we will need him pretty much right away with only Williams & Coleman on the roster. It would be nice to see a freshman PF/C come through here, but it would be risky for 06 considering how much we will need him to play right away.

The staff is setting us up nicely for the future. Tatum seems like he will be handed the SG spot once he gets here, unless Carlos Williams plays PG with Lee moving to SG(but either way Tatum will start at least 2 years for us). Dewhurst will get a year behind DA and then the chance to fight Harmon for the SF spot. Andersen seems likely to step in after Leemire goes to be our shooter for his junior and senior years. Carlos Williams should be good for his two years. Phaler seems to be Mullis’s replacement. A bigger guy who is probably best suited for SF but will probably have to play PF for us due to the roster. I think it would have been better to get a true PF, but Lutz loves his shooters.

There is a lack of a top 100 standout star in the group for sure. But Tatum will be good and I really like Dewhurst. I know it’s high school, but any kid getting over 20 points and 8 rebounds a game is alright by me. I think, at worst, we get 3 two year starters out of the 06 class(Williams, Tatum, Dewhurst). Maybe Andersen is actually a mid-major player like the recruiting sites think he is, maybe Phaler is the same way. With our history, we will almost certainly lose one of these guys somehow(not show up, transfer, drop out, ect ect), but we are bringing in two freshman who will potentially both start for us one day. When was the last time we could even think about that? Probably Withers and Grier in 02, when’s the last time it actually happend? I couldn’t tell you honestly…

Weber State, Valpo, Butler, Richmond, ODU…

What do they have in common…

These are all little teams that made splashes for a couple of years in the tourney…and then fell of the map. I’m not trying to go all Lefty or anything but at least we are a consistent program and when we make it to the sweet 16, we won’t fall off the map 3 years later. Bobby is building our program for the long haul by brining in players he thinks will have a role in this team 2 or 3 years down the line. He doesn’t need these guys for this year (Withers/DA) or next year with Williams/DA, and then their will be Beasley. What he needs is guys who are going to hit free throws, knock down shots, keep the defense honest and let our stars take us where we want to go. I am excited about the success we’ve been having. More and more kids are coming to Charlotte and are hearing about us. That’s a good thing.

AMEN!!!

I like that we are finaly getting some players to commit early and not being in players late just to fill a spot on the roster. Seems that we are still recruiting some high level players, but still losing more than we get signed. We seem set at the SG and SF for the next couple of years if these players pan out as we hope. Anderson seems like a reach and Philar could be a reach also. I would like to see some a couple of big bodies that could play, but that is always going to be a problem for us.

I think next year’s recruiting is going to be key if we really sign the big names that we have commited or in the running to sign.

I agree with what some of you guys are saying. We’re in good shape now at 1-3. (Although, I do hate we’re still missing on a lot of high priority guys). My biggest concern is landing the bigs. Of course, they are scarce compared to 6’2" to 6’6" guys. I think we’ll likely feature 3 guys across the back at 6’5" to 6’8" and be fine in the A-10. Bigger teams will give us trouble in the tournament but someone like Beasley could put us over the top.

Ian Anderson= Dee Tolliver= Chris Sager

This kid for his own sake should not come here. He will end up just like Tolliver and Sager, riding the pine. He should go to a mid-major and light up the nets.
This is why I get sick of people saying “he’ll be like Jobey Thomas”, about white 2 guards we get in. I’ve heard that said about Plavich, Sager and now with Dewhurst and Anderson. Jobey was a player and competitor. So right now all that Dewhurst and Anderson have when being compared to Jobey is that they too are white and like to shoot.

[i]Originally posted by mineshaft[/i]@Sep 30 2005, 08:40 PM [b] Ian Anderson= Dee Tolliver= Chris Sager

This kid for his own sake should not come here. He will end up just like Tolliver and Sager, riding the pine. He should go to a mid-major and light up the nets.
This is why I get sick of people saying “he’ll be like Jobey Thomas”, about white 2 guards we get in. I’ve heard that said about Plavich, Sager and now with Dewhurst and Anderson. Jobey was a player and competitor. So right now all that Dewhurst and Anderson have when being compared to Jobey is that they too are white and like to shoot. [/b]


i think that anderson is supposed to be the shooter, not dewhurst. one article said that dewhurst needs to develop his outside game.

Jobey Thomas was also ranked in the Top 100 when he was in HS as well…unlike these other guys.

I’ll be honest, it’s awesome we’ve been able to already lock up 5 guys for next year quality is better than quantity. I am excited about Tatum. Hopefully Lutz sees something that NO other coaches are seeing in these other guys though. We need size big time. We have NO big men for 2007-2008 season as of right now (Beasley is a big forward at best).

There are guys on the radar…he may also hold one or two scholarships for next year, that way we have some separation from Williams and Coleman (e.g. if we sign juco big men, it would make more sense for us to do that next year rather than this year).

[i]Originally posted by mineshaft[/i]@Sep 30 2005, 08:40 PM [b]Ian Anderson= Dee Tolliver= Chris Sager

This kid for his own sake should not come here. He will end up just like Tolliver and Sager, riding the pine. He should go to a mid-major and light up the nets.
This is why I get sick of people saying “he’ll be like Jobey Thomas”, about white 2 guards we get in. I’ve heard that said about Plavich, Sager and now with Dewhurst and Anderson. Jobey was a player and competitor. So right now all that Dewhurst and Anderson have when being compared to Jobey is that they too are white and like to shoot.[/b]


Dewhurst averages over 20 point and 8 rebounds in HS and he isn’t a shooter. I don’t see the Jobey Thomas comparisons there. He’s a scorer, but scores from slashing and driving rather than the 3 ball. Plus his rebounding ability at 6’5" is impressive. He was also ranked in the top 150 in his class at this time last year, so at worst he’s still a top 200 player. If he can play some defense he could be a great player for us.

Everyone says Tatum is much better, but Tatum is at the very verge of the top 150(140 I believe on one site), so people being excited about Tatum but not Dewhurst doesn’t make much sense to me. They are probably within 20-30 spots of each other according to most recruiting sites.

I dug up my 01-02 media guide. (Jobey’s senior year and Rodney’s only year). Jobey listed at 6’4" 190 as a Sr at Charlotte

Anyways, Jobey’s stats from high school.

-Ranked 82nd by All Star Sport and 102 by recruiter’s handbook.
-Junior year at Independence: 13.3 ppg, 2.5 apg, .525 fg, .474 3PG and .810 FT
-Senior year: 22.6, 6.1 rbs, 3.2 apg, .542 FG, .490 3PG, .910 FT

I’m certainly not trying to discount Jobey Thomas. He is one of my favorite all-time Niners and a great 49er. But if Dewhurst has the desire Jobey had, he could be a very good player for us.

And as CMack said, Dewhurst isn’t known as a three point shooter. He scores inside and out but will focus on his perimeter game this year because that’s what Benny Moss and the coaches want him to do.

[i]Originally posted by 49erFan1[/i]@Sep 30 2005, 02:20 PM [b]Weber State, Valpo, Butler, Richmond, ODU...

What do they have in common…

These are all little teams that made splashes for a couple of years in the tourney…and then fell of the map. [/b]


FWIW (since 1980)…

Butler (4,500 students)
1985 NIT
1991 NIT
1992 NIT
1997 NCAA
1998 NCAA
1999 NIT
2000 NCAA
2001 NCAA
2002 NIT
2003 NCAA

Old Dominion (22,000 students)
1980 NCAA
1981 NIT
1983 NIT
1984 NIT
1985 NCAA
1986 NCAA
1988 NIT
1992 NCAA
1993 NIT
1994 NIT
1995 NCAA
1997 NCAA
1999 NIT
2005 NCAA

Richmond (3,000 students)
1982 NIT
1984 NCAA
1985 NIT
1986 NCAA
1988 NCAA
1989 NIT
1990 NCAA
1991 NCAA
1992 NIT
1998 NCAA
2001 NIT
2003 NIT
2004 NCAA

Valpo (4,000 students)
1995 NCAA
1996 NCAA
1997 NCAA
1998 NCAA
1999 NCAA
2000 NCAA
2002 NCAA
2003 NIT

Weber State (18,000 students)
1999 NCAA
2003 NCAA
[NOTE: can’t tell if there is more postseason for Weber State from their website]

I wouldn’t exactly call this recruiting class the greatest either, but '07 is looking pretty damn good. I think it’s good to have a few marginal guys with guts and heart, who’ll listen to the coaches and give it everything they’ve got. As we’ve learned in the past, talent isn’t everything.

Wow run…so much for those programs falling off the map…(sans weber state).

I’ve been thinking about our last (and only) splash in the tourney, which was in 1977. That’s almost 30 years ago! Geez… :o

[i]Originally posted by run49er[/i]@Oct 3 2005, 06:02 PM [b]I've been thinking about our last (and only) splash in the tourney, which was in 1977. That's almost 30 years ago! Geez... :o[/b]
But the fact remains that the vast majority of D1 college basketball teams would kill to have the consistency we have had over the past decade. One of 22 teams in the whole country to make the NCAA tourny 7 out of the last 9 years. Yes, I know "what have we done once we got there?" but I would take our consistent good seasons over one good Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run over the same time period.

It says a lot about our program when we expect to make the NCAA tourny year in and year out.

[b]Yes, I know "what have we done once we got there?" but I would take our consistent good seasons over one good Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run over the same time period.[/b]

No way… I would trade 7 of 9 years for a title, ala Syracuse. I might even trade it for a final 4 run. In the state of NC making the NCAA means nothing… ZERO. Like it or not we have to measure up to the Duke/Wake/UNC ideal of success… and that is making the 16 at the least, anything less is not success. We always complain that our program doesn’t get the respect we deserve… well we have done enough for that respect in about 49 states… in the one we are in though, we are not there yet. When we start making it to weekend #2 in march consistently then we will have arrived in the state of NC. Until that time we are simply a “mid-major” with mild success in the eyes of most here in ACC land.

[i]Originally posted by WBNiner[/i]@Oct 3 2005, 06:30 PM [b]No way... I would trade 7 of 9 years for a title, ala Syracuse. I might even trade it for a final 4 run. In the state of NC making the NCAA means nothing.. ZERO. Like it or not we have to measure up to the Duke/Wake/UNC ideal of success.. and that is making the 16 at the least, anything less is not success. We always complain that our program doesn't get the respect we deserve... well we have done enough for that respect in about 49 states... in the one we are in though, we are not there yet. When we start making it to weekend #2 in march consistently then we will have arrived in the state of NC. Until that time we are simply a "mid-major" with mild success in the eyes of most here in ACC land.[/b]
I never said I wouldn't trade for a title, that's a whole other story, anyone would take a title in a heartbeat. But we are comparing ourselves to Weber State, Butler and ODU? I would easily take our consistency over one year of being a giant killer or one trip to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. If you start talking National Championship, it's a no brainer, even a Final 4 would be a hard choice, but anything less isn't worth trading our continued consistancy for.

And who gives a flying f about comparing ourselves to the ACC schools in the state? We don’t compare to those schools in terms of the money they have to spend on their program or in terms of the free national exposure they get every week to help their recruiting. If we were in the ACC then it would be a fair comparison, but we aren’t so just let it go. You have to compare apples to apples, compare us to the majority of CUSA teams that we consistently outpreformed every year, most are probably on the same level as us as far as interest/funding for their programs(of course Louisville, Cincy and Memphis are on a different level). Compare us to the rest of the A10 a few years down the line. Just don’t compare us to schools that are on a completely different level as far as money and national exposure is concerned.

How can we expect Final 4’s and Elite 8’s when we can’t afford to keep a coach and are excited to get on TV 6 times in a season(at least half of which probably won’t be shown in our own city because of ACC games)?