I was researching schools starting football programs online and found this posting on the UNC Pembroke site. It is funny how they can justify football and UNC Charlotte, a school with more resources, canât even analyze a football program.
Money for a UNCP team vs. a Charlotte team donât even compare. Lenoir Rhyne has a football team too. My 2A high school has a bigger following though.
How can the university raise student fees to pay for a $40 million student union building but always insist there is never money for a football program? Personally, I would rather have a football team than a new student union building that will just house everything we already have in the SAC and the Cone Center.
A few items jumped out at me.
[b]Why would UNCP add football? The lesson, learned from other colleges and universities, is that football would give UNC Pembroke an opportunity to build stronger relationships between the community and the University, improve student retention rates, increase enrollment and improve school spirit and pride. [/b]
Is it not true that we have all complained about lack of support from community and poor school spirit? This does not even touch on the increased alumni participation that would come with football.
[b]How do UNCP athletic programs compare to the other 14 UNC campuses with athletic programs? Ten campuses of the UNC system compete in the NCAAâs Division I. The remainder are Division II programs that play football. All UNC campuses that compete in the NCAAâs Division II - except UNCP - have football programs. UNCP is the only UNC campus that is neither a NCAA Division I university, or does not play football. Are there other colleges that have added football recently? In the last two years, four North Carolina and South Carolina universities started football programs. Coastal Carolina University, Shaw University and St. Augustineâs College added football in 2003 and North Carolina Wesleyan College added football in 2004. [/b]
How is it it possible that we do not have a team?? How is it that these schools can start teams and we canât?
[b]What lessons have other schools learned after the addition of football? Every school that has added football in the last 10 years has seen an increase in their retention rates, and UNCP is seeking to improve retention. A number of schools, including Coastal Carolina, have also experienced a dramatic increase in enrollment. [/b]
Here we see the importance of football on the overall health of the school. In other words even if the football program fails to generate direct revenue it has a HUGE impact on the university. Keeping kids happy at UNCC should be a goal. Keeping our enrollment moving upwards is also important to continue to receive our share of state funding.
Some of you will no doubt point out this is division II⌠so what? Division II can be just as if not more exciting than Division I, not to mention they actually have a playoff! I have a feeling with some leadership this can happen and our new Chance may be just the leader we need.
simple answer here. Judy Rose.
I donât see how Judy can say at Niner New Year that if you are wearing other schoolâs apparel then you need to transfer. If she didnât want kids on campus wearing other apparel then she wouldnât leave the window of opportunity open and actually support instating football. I mean a kid wearing a Miami hat obviously isnât wearing it because of Miami basketball.
I agree bottom line is Judy Rose has no vision for football whatsoever. Letâs face it folks as long as she is here we will stall on football. She also has no reason to leave. No other similar university to us would hire her. She will not leave.
Get a freaking man in the position who has a vision for football!
Judy I think is a road block, but not one that canât be moved. If our new chance gives her those orders then she either takes them or quits. I do agree with you though that no other major university would hire her as an AD. It seems we have succeeded in basketball dispite her leadership. I am happy how our coaching in basketball has developed, but remember it was Judy who after Mullins left insisted on a nationwide search when we ALL knew that Melvin should get the job. Mullins even said so as he was leaving! Then when Melvin left, when we should have had a nationwide search she simply bumped Lutz into place. I am not saying the eventual moves were wrong at all, just pointing out some of the odd decisions. The absolute worst thing she did that I can think of was when she made it sound as if we were ready for football, but after 9/11 the money just wasnât there. How dare she hide behind the tragedy of that day to deflect criticism of her lack of understanding and commitment to football. IMHO I think Judy knows that football would bring cuts to womenâs programs. I am convinced a major part of her anti-football stance is pro-womenâs sports instead of just being pro Charlotte sports.
the board is pretty slow todayâŚwonder why?
If our basketball team has major success in the next few years, I donât see how we would lack the funds for football.
But the reason we donât have football may be more than just Judy Rose. Woodward probably used this line on donors⌠âCome on, we are so poor we donât have football, even Catawba, Livingston, and CPCC have football, we are so poorâ
And then the checks got handed out.
Here is another interesting article I found on UCF and their pursuit to build an on campus football stadium. This article states how using new construction methods can reduce the cost of building a stadium. In the article they throw the number of $40 million dollars. I find it ironic how our new student union building is going to cost over $40 million dollars yet football is never feasible.
yea great they say the reason we needed a new student union building is because we need to accomadate the influx of students coming into the university.
CMON does there really need to be a new place for the bookstore?
Do we really need more places to eat? I mean SAC, Chick fila, prospector, and Main Street Market not to mention the RDH and Crossroads.
You know I think that the school and surrounding areas would make a good bit of money by the simple fact that students would stay here on the weekends to watch the football game, therefore spending more money. I mean like half the students it seems leave on weekends during football season. Itâs ridiculous. The school really find a way to incorporate football and not make excuses about money when we are able to throw up $40 mill buildings we donât really need.
Ohh yea hereâs a great article if anyone hasnât read it, but it was written on 7/1/05 so you might have read it.
I appreciate the desire all of you have for a football team. It simply is not as easy as it looks.
Consider these issues:
- The University is for learning, not entertainment.
- UNCC was âowedâ millions from previous state budgets which has just been released over the summer.
- There is strong resentment, particularly in the eastern portions of NC, against anything pertaining to Charlotte/Mecklenburg County, much less UNC Charlotte.
- The state of North Carolina does not provide any money for its state universities to provide athletic programs, the only other state in the US that does this is Oklahoma.
- Division II football continues to be mentioned. The NCAA would require that a new program play at no less than Division I-AA. That is a huge jump in money needed.
I could go on.
And Iâll provide this excerpt from a letter sent to 49er Club members last week.
[b]In the 1997-98 fiscal year, we spent $1.1 million to fund 89 student-athlete scholarships. This year we will spend $2.2 million to fund 113 scholarships. That is a 100% increase in cost over the last 7 years with only a 26% increase in scholarships awarded. Our mission has always been to try and get to the fully funded NCAA allotment of scholarship total of 133 for the 16 sports in which Charlotte competes.[/b][u][b]2004-05 Charlotte 49ers Scholarship Numbers[/b][/u] Menâs Baseball â 10.98 scholarships, 11.8 allowed by the NCAA Menâs Basketball â 13 scholarships, 13 allowed by the NCAA Menâs Golf â 3.69 scholarships, 4.5 allowed by the NCAA Menâs Soccer â 9.8 scholarships, 9.9 allowed by the NCAA Menâs Tennis â 3.51 scholarships, 4.5 allowed by the NCAA Menâs Track â 9.18 scholarships, 12.7 allowed by the NCAA Menâs TOTALS â 50.16 scholarships, 56.4 allowed by the NCAA (88.94%) Womenâs Basketball â 15 scholarships, 15 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs Soccer â 11.19 scholarships, 12 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs Softball â 7.33 scholarships, 12 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs Tennis â 6.05 scholarships, 8 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs Track â 12.07 scholarships, 18 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs Volleyball â 12 scholarships, 12 allowed by the NCAA Womenâs TOTALS â 63.64 scholarships, 77 allowed by the NCAA (82.65%) Department TOTALS â 113.8 scholarships, 133.4 allowed by the NCAA (85.31%)
We arenât able to fully scholarship what we have and you want to add 85 football scholarships and an equal number for Title IX? Or do we eliminate the sports currently being played to provide those?
Come up with the check book, I donât think you want student fees to triple. ETSU just dropped Division I-AAfootball, I think more schools may follow in the short term.
Am I against football? Not at all, I just do not see it financially making sense and I donât see 15,000 seeing a rag-tag team in Charlotte when Halton canât be sold out regualrly, the casual fans will not attend. If the decison is made to field a squad, I will be at the front of the line to purchase tickets, but I doubt Iâd attend every game as I would basketball games.
Why does UNC Charlotte have sports programs if we are strictly a learning institution?
The funding for a football program would mostly come from raising student fees and from donations from business, alumni, and the community.
There are hundreds of universities in the United States that some how find a way to fund equal menâs and womenâs scholarships with a football program (wrestling and hockey at a lot of schools too)
Not to mention after being established several years a football program would help generate revenue to pay for money-losing womenâs sports.
UNC Charlotte would definitely need to start football at the 1-AA level, which has no stadium size requirements and only requires 70 scholarships apposed to 85 for 1-A
There are many universities who have recently started football programs UAB, South Florida, UCF, and Coastal Carolina to name a few. All of these institutions are younger public universities similar to UNC Charlotte.
UNC Charlotte is a growing university that soon will enroll over 25,000 students and is located in the second largest banking center in the country. The city of Charlotte ranks fifth in the number of fortune 500 companies the city has in the nation. Many of these corporations have shown willingness to sponsor sporting events in Charlotte. Why not college football?
If school officials were motivated to bring football to UNC Charlotte it would be here. I just hope sooner than later someone will take the intuitive to get the ball rolling and we like other college sports fans will get spend our Saturday afternoons cheering on our favorite team.
[b]Why does UNC Charlotte have sports programs if we are strictly a learning institution?[/b]What is the purpose of a university? To provide entertainment?
[b]The funding for a football program would mostly come from raising student fees and from donations from business, alumni, and the community.[/b]So every 20,000 students will be happy to see student fees increase another $250-300 yearly JUST for football? How many of the students regularly attend basketball games now? You can't get 4500 there.
[b]There are hundreds of universities in the United States that some how find a way to fund equal men's and women's scholarships with a football program (wrestling and hockey at a lot of schools too).[/b]True, and they are almost all more than 40 years old. If you look at my earlier post, UNCC provides equal funding. But if every athlete now isn't fully scholarshipped, how do you propose to scholarship a number [u]more than double[/u] what is currently done?
[b]Not to mention after being established several years a football program would help generate revenue to pay for money-losing women's sports.[/b]Few, Division I-A and I-AA football programs turn a profit. Cincinnati's football program LOST $1.8 million last season. The only way to turn a profit is with TV revenues and sold out events.
[b]UNC Charlotte would definitely need to start football at the 1-AA level, which has no stadium size requirements and only requires 70 scholarships apposed to 85 for 1-A.[/b]No stadium of any size = no ticket revenues, remember the students have paid for their tickets with student fees. 70 additional scholasrships for football = 140 additional scholarships total for athletics, still more than are currently provided.
[b]There are many universities who have recently started football programs UAB, South Florida, UCF, and Coastal Carolina to name a few. All of these institutions are younger public universities similar to UNC Charlotte.[/b]All receive funds from their state for athletics. UAB's program is in a serious deficeit and the UA trustees have threatened to dissolve the program.
[b]UNC Charlotte is a growing university that soon will enroll over 25,000 students and is located in the second largest banking center in the country. The city of Charlotte ranks fifth in the number of fortune 500 companies the city has in the nation. Many of these corporations have shown willingness to sponsor sporting events in Charlotte. Why not college football?[/b]Run by executives with loyalties to other schools. Why is BOA sponsoring a NASCAR race, who are the corporate sponsors at Panthers' games? They want a huge advetising return on their money. How many fans attend a Davidson football game, will Wachovia (or whomever) give the millions and millions needed just to provide the initial costs for coaches/staff, equipment and not to mention facilities?
[b]If school officials were motivated to bring football to UNC Charlotte it would be here. I just hope sooner than later someone will take the intuitive to get the ball rolling and we like other college sports fans will get spend our Saturday afternoons cheering on our favorite team.[/b]They like their Saturday afternoons off. :D Actually, this would be nice but the local casual fan will not attend. He'd rather make the drive to Clemson, Columbia, Raleigh, Winston-Salem or God forbid, Chapel Hill or Durham to see a college football game.
I guess with this mentality we can be content with a school that seeks mediocrity
Come back when you have more than 5 posts to have a credible argument. I can assure you that when UNC Charlotte does anything⌠architecturally, educationally and in this case athleticly, it will be done first class or not at all.
Tons of mediocre schools go to 7 NCAAs in 9 years âŚ
or was it there are tons of schools who have never been to the NCAAs 7 times in 90 years? âŚ
I canât remember which is more true.
[b]IMHO I think Judy knows that football would bring cuts to women's programs. I am convinced a major part of her anti-football stance is pro-women's sports instead of just being pro Charlotte sports. [/b]
That might be the most backwards argument Iâve ever seen - considering that scholarships and funding for womenâs sports would actually have to be INcreased to offset the money pumped into football. (or other menâs sports cut, which I donât think anyone on this board sees happening).
HP - your arguments are way too grounded in reason and fact to be understood on this board. People just want football, and they want it now.
Nevermind that youâd have to have millions up front to start it - without stadium cost factored in.
You see, weâve got âcorporate sponsorsâ and âprivate donorsâ who are waiting for the announcement to make their donations ⌠theyâre just out there ⌠with lots of money ⌠waiting on us to announce football.
You get that right? Theyâve told people on this board (not you or me, just other people who support football), âlook, weâre not going to tell your administration this, but weâre waiting on you to announce it then BAM $40 million will be all yours.â
The simple fact is, there are about 10-20 athletic departments around the country that make a profit, and those change with the success of their teams (i.e. the Tar Heels probably made money last year, since the huge influx of merchandise sales plus a run to the Final Four equals more money from the NCAA). In the year the Tar Heels were 8-20, Iâll put money on the fact that they lost money overall, and a lot of it.
These people who think football is a good idea have no hard numbers to back up their facts.
âFootball will increase student morale, and students will stay on campus to watch the games, and retention will go up and the community will like the school more.â Really? Do you have any evidence of that? I can easily name 20 I-AA schools that draw (actual attendance) less than 1,000 fans per game, lose assloads of money, and basically are just existing for the sake of existing. And that is off the top of my head.
It makes them look like the bottom of the barrel. Sometimes having SOMETHING which ends up being a stinker, is actually WORSE than having nothing.
Not to mention that students currently have to park behind the baseball field, walk up the hill and then through the rest of campus to get to class, because there is a decided lack of parking on campus. But donât worry, when weâre drawing 20,000 a game for football, weâll provide some sort of shuttle bus service to all the satellite lots in the University City area, so that parking wonât be a problem (riiiiiiiiight).
I am wondering what kind of profit the athletic program is turning right now?