Football world, say 'ello to Danny Rose.
Wow! That was awesome.
[quote=“Lew, post:1, topic:23079”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhLd5aNOJG8&feature=related
Football world, say 'ello to Danny Rose.[/quote]
Not sure why the football world would care, but I’m sure the soccer world liked it. :- P
It was an incredible goal, you really have to feel for the keeper Alumnia on that one. He played the cross perfect, sans an impossible catch, and he gets rewarded with a left foot volley that was on an absolute line for the top of the net. It’s a bit of luck, but I’m sure the Hotspur will take it in a 2-1 match.
Welcome to ESPN a day ago 
It is a miraculous shot…
But this is why I could never follow Soccer or Hockey…it seems like most scores occur with at least some level of luck. A guy simply kicks the ball hard or hits the puck hard towards the goal and it bounces off or riccochets off of 1 or 2 people then goes in…and the player gets mobbed like he meant to do it.
Don’t get me wrong…lucky shots happen in basketball as well…but 1 or 2 may happen in a game where 40 total shots were made.
In a soccer/hockey game…where games average a 3-2 score…you have instances where a lucky score accounts for 30%, 50% or 100% of the scoring.
The high proportion of “luck” in scoring is what has always been a turn off to me.
Not trying to incite a riot…Just saying.
It is a miraculous shot…
But this is why I could never follow Soccer or Hockey…it seems like most scores occur with at least some level of luck. A guy simply kicks the ball hard or hits the puck hard towards the goal and it bounces off or riccochets off of 1 or 2 people then goes in…and the player gets mobbed like he meant to do it.
Don’t get me wrong…lucky shots happen in basketball as well…but 1 or 2 may happen in a game where 40 total shots were made.
In a soccer/hockey game…where games average a 3-2 score…you have instances where a lucky score accounts for 30%, 50% or 100% of the scoring.
The high proportion of “luck” in scoring is what has always been a turn off to me.
Not trying to incite a riot…Just saying.[/quote]
Let’s not get this wrong, this happened in the first 10 minutes of the match, so Arsenal had plenty of opportunities to even the score or go ahead. However, it did change the entire complex of the game. The goal wouldn’t have happened though if Arsenal wouldn’t have gave up a corner. You create opportunities, you get lucky sometimes.
It is a miraculous shot…
But this is why I could never follow Soccer or Hockey…it seems like most scores occur with at least some level of luck. A guy simply kicks the ball hard or hits the puck hard towards the goal and it bounces off or riccochets off of 1 or 2 people then goes in…and the player gets mobbed like he meant to do it.
Don’t get me wrong…lucky shots happen in basketball as well…but 1 or 2 may happen in a game where 40 total shots were made.
In a soccer/hockey game…where games average a 3-2 score…you have instances where a lucky score accounts for 30%, 50% or 100% of the scoring.
The high proportion of “luck” in scoring is what has always been a turn off to me.
Not trying to incite a riot…Just saying.[/quote]
I can’t speak for hockey, but this just isnt true in soccer. Balls “ping ponging” off of defenders and finding their way into the net do not make up 30% of the goals. They just don’t.
I wouldnt call the Danny Rose goal luck, I would call it a damn near perfect strike. It was off a volley, so of course the difficulty level is increased by x, but these guys have just stupid amounts of placement skill. Its really amazing to see how accurate these guys can place a ball from 20-30 yards out.
It is a miraculous shot…
But this is why I could never follow Soccer or Hockey…it seems like most scores occur with at least some level of luck. A guy simply kicks the ball hard or hits the puck hard towards the goal and it bounces off or riccochets off of 1 or 2 people then goes in…and the player gets mobbed like he meant to do it.
Don’t get me wrong…lucky shots happen in basketball as well…but 1 or 2 may happen in a game where 40 total shots were made.
In a soccer/hockey game…where games average a 3-2 score…you have instances where a lucky score accounts for 30%, 50% or 100% of the scoring.
The high proportion of “luck” in scoring is what has always been a turn off to me.
Not trying to incite a riot…Just saying.[/quote]
Let’s not get this wrong, this happened in the first 10 minutes of the match, so Arsenal had plenty of opportunities to even the score or go ahead. However, it did change the entire complex of the game. The goal wouldn’t have happened though if Arsenal wouldn’t have gave up a corner. You create opportunities, you get lucky sometimes.[/quote]
Gotcha…and I can agree with that.
But for me personally…it’s still a turn off.
In this case…if it weren’t for a once in a lifetime shot…this game would have ended in a scoreless tie. 100% of the scoring and the entire outcome was determined by a fluke shot that couldn’t be replicated in another 100 tries.
I just can’t get into that. I prefer winning and losing determined by a higher proportion of skillfully executed scoring…not fluke/lucky scoring.
No disrespect to anyone or to the sport. Again…Just my preference when it comes to a sports setting.
Still shouldn’t and doesn’t take away from how amazing the shot was.
I didn’t mean to imply that 30% of ALL goals are luck…I did mean that you can have games where 30% (1 goal out of a 2-1 game for example), 50% or, like in this case 100% of the scoring and the entire outcome is decided by a lucky shot. Even in a shoot out…the kicker “guesses” and the goalie “guesses” and the 1 on 1 is determined mostly by luck (who guessed right). One on one in any other sport (basketball, baseball, football) is determined more by skill.
And I know that soccer player has skill…but the reason the shot is being played and replayed and posted everywhere is because it was a lucky one in a million type shot.
Again…no disrespect intended because soccer players are incredible athletes with a TON of crazy skills. But there is a high proportion of luck involved in scoring when compared to other traditional sports. Randy Moss making a play, Barry Sanders making a move, Lebron going to the hole, a Randy Johnson fastball…etc…are much more dependent on skill and are much more satisfying for me personally.
If soccer were in-large part luck, then the more talented teams probably wouldn’t consistently rise to the top. Certainly some luck is involved, but just look at the European club teams and the powerful national teams at the World Cup. There’s a reason the same teams seem to win or be at the top of the table every year.
I’d say basketball can be very similar though. Even though each shot isn’t luck, a halfway decent shooter can get hot, and hit 10 3 pointers in a game and just obliterate the other team. Then the next three games the same shooter can’t hit anything. The difference between teams in quality isn’t just the skilled ability to hit a shot, it’s the ability to hit baskets consistently (and prevent other players from hitting shots consistently). That’s similar to the soccer player’s volley.
Sort of like a half court shot at the buzzer. It happens in every sport. I think you are overstating its occurence in soccer.
again...no disrespect intended because soccer players are incredible athletes with a TON of crazy skills. But there is a high proportion of luck involved in scoring when compared to other traditional sports. Randy Moss making a play, Barry Sanders making a move, Lebron going to the hole, a Randy Johnson fastball....etc.....
I know you don’t intend any disrespect. I just don’t see how you can say that taking a shot on goal involves more luck than say, taking a 3 pointer. The soccer player doesnt just kick the hell out the ball in the hope that it goes in (unless you are some knuckle head centerback cracking a shot from outside the 18) They are making a run, a move, a play, and a strike on the ball in the same way a basketball player would be making a run, a move, a play with the ball. I think the high degree of difficulty and success rate is coloring your perception.
The key word I have mentioned several times that no one is apparently picking up on is “proportion.”
I know luck happens in every sport…but a half court shot in basketball (which I agree is a great comparison) counts for 3 pts in a game that the average score is 72-68. That’s only a net effect of 2 percent. Even if there are 5 more lucky shots made on average in a typical basketball game (and-1 shots, circus layups, etc)…that’s still only a net effect of less than 10% on the total score of a typical game.
A lucky shot in soccer counts as 1 goal in a game that typically averages a 3-2 score. That’s a net effect of 20%. And in the game referenced in this clip…the luck shot counted for 100% of the scoring in the entire game.
Have you ever seen a basketball game where only one shot was made…and it was a half court shot??
That’s my point.
The winner of the game is determined by who scores more goals…and in soccer, luck scoring goals have a much more dramatic affect on who wins and loses. The luck scored goal has a more proportionally significant effect on the total points scored in a typical soccer game than in any other sport.
Even though I am not a fan of soccer (mostly due to this issue) I actually respect the athleticism of soccer more than I could explain. That’s probably why the proportional luck/scoring issue bothers me so much.
I didn’t mean to imply that 30% of ALL goals are luck…I did mean that you can have games where 30% (1 goal out of a 2-1 game for example), 50% or, like in this case 100% of the scoring and the entire outcome is decided by a lucky shot. Even in a shoot out…the kicker “guesses” and the goalie “guesses” and the 1 on 1 is determined mostly by luck (who guessed right). One on one in any other sport (basketball, baseball, football) is determined more by skill.
And I know that soccer player has skill…but the reason the shot is being played and replayed and posted everywhere is because it was a lucky one in a million type shot.
Again…no disrespect intended because soccer players are incredible athletes with a TON of crazy skills. But there is a high proportion of luck involved in scoring when compared to other traditional sports. Randy Moss making a play, Barry Sanders making a move, Lebron going to the hole, a Randy Johnson fastball…etc…are much more dependent on skill and are much more satisfying for me personally.[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, but I believe you are looking at it wrong.
First of all, let’s break down the shot. The odds of having the ball placed like that are not that high, so we can’t be so sure that that was so full of luck. Perhaps if we had balls placed like that more often, we’d have more goals that look like that. Then, the area he was kicking to was relatively clear of players while it was still low. It is uncountable how many times a great shot has ended up looking like nothing because there were players between the striker and goal. Then of course, the player does already have tremendous skill. You can’t just luck into hitting that shot and with that much strength. There were plenty of easy ways for him to botch it, but it was his skill the put him in position not to. Finally, this isn’t a once in a lifetime shot or totally unheard of. It is a beautiful goal, but I’ve seen long balls go in a number of times.
As for the game of soccer itself and lucky shots, it’s not very often that the goals could be called luck. A lot of the game is about getting the ball in a position where you can make the shot. It wasn’t luck that they were in that position, and making the shot still isn’t that easy.
[quote=“Lew, post:1, topic:23079”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhLd5aNOJG8&feature=related
Football world, say 'ello to Danny Rose.[/quote]
Cripes! The dexterity and strength to crack a volley shot like that from 26 yrds is amazing!
I’ll see your volley and raise you this wondergoal today by Maicon
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=HC1BE45tY7U
[quote=“TRLeader, post:13, topic:23079”]The winner of the game is determined by who scores more goals…and in soccer, luck scoring goals have a much more dramatic affect on who wins and loses. The luck scored goal has a more proportionally significant effect on the total points scored in a typical soccer game than in any other sport.[/quote] I still disagree with this indicating luck plays a greater role in soccer than other sports. I would say the better teams win in soccer more often than the better team winning in basketball. Look at the English Premier League. The last six years, the same four teams have finished in the top 4 of the league. The exact same four. That’s worse than MLB in terms of standings consistency (I say worse because I like to see a new face every once in a while). Now how could this be possible if the outcomes are primarily (or even just more so than other sports) determined by luck? Surely these teams would show a little more random fluctuation in the standings if luck played a large role in who wins the games.
The reason is that it’s not mostly luck when a team scores a goal. A lucky result might end up having a disproportionate effect (like a lucky homerun), but quality teams generate more chances and higher quality chances to score, and, in most games, they do end up scoring more points (as evidenced by the fact that the better teams tend to win so very consistently).
That goal was no luck. Notice how he just taps the ball. Skill and technique. If he lashes at it, it goes sky high into the upper seats. Just a slight tap with his off foot to the center of the net. BRILLIANT strike. Beautiful technique. So many great goals this past week. Robben’s gem in the Champions League, Messi’s masterclass, this one and Maicon’s. Great week for footy fans.
I got chewed out for this once before, but honestly pound for pound, soccer players are some of the best if not best athletes in the world.
Agreed.
I think the true beauty of Rose’s goal vs. Maicon’s is simple: It was a volley.
You’ll see goals from thirty every once and again. A volley from thirty is unspeakable.
Any football (and yes, I call it football because it happened in Europe. If this play had been in a DC United vs. NY Red Bulls match, I’d call it soccer) player would tell you the right move here is to gain control and work it back into the box. Maicon gained control, and the beauty of his goal was in the footwork. Don’t get me wrong, it was a beautiful goal.
But for the overall shock factor of “Holy shit did that just happen?” I think Rose nailed one of the best of the year.
And yeah, Hoons… I know it was all over sportscenter yesterday… but I was away from my computer most of the day. Unlike most of you though, I saw it when it happened 