I will say that if Bobby is indeed interested in coming back, heâs had plenty of time to talk to people to have assistants lined up and time to give a helluva presentation to Phil on his growth and to a new AD on a plan and a package.
Then it would be up to those partied to decide.
[quote=âNewNiner, post:453, topic:31267â]It sounds to me like the majority actually donât want him back, but a very vocal, small minority does.
As Iâve said before, thereâs as much evidence that Bobbyâs last 5 years were the beginning of this entire backslide as there is that he was the architect of his early success. He took over a winning program and sustained it for a few years, but then we really started to taper off. Itâs certainly better than what we have now, but thereâs at least some logic in seeing that it may have been the beginning of what we have now. There were a few losing seasons in there, big losses, late collapses, etc. Bobby never loved to recruit and he hasnât had to do it in a while. That makes it tough to get back in the game. Those last 5 years were all on the heels of sustained success, a better conference affiliation, more talent to begin with, etc.
Again, we all like Bobby. Heâs a great guy, but thereâs as much to suggest he inherited a great situation and couldnât sustain it for the long haul as there is that he built anything up. There wasnât much trending at that point - 14 wins to 20 wins to 11 wins to 19 wins.
Bobby is a good coach, a good guy, and great with fans/boosters. Iâm just not convinced (nor is most of the fan base) that heâs the hire that needs to be made for a team looking forward.[/quote]
Wow, I assume you took a survey on this? :
[quote=âNinerAdvocate, post:454, topic:31267â]Mon, Nov 19, 2007
Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)
Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutzâs team.
I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.
Also:
http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0[/quote]
So just for some LOLS, this was the 5th place game of the Paradise Jam. Both teams lost their first game (Charlotte to Georgia Tech, Monmouth to Notre Dame) and then won their second game. Charlotte beat Illinois-Chicago with a late Goldwire 3-pointer, and who did Monmouth beat?
None other than Wichita State with 1st year coach Gregg Marshall. Kill me now.
[quote=â919R, post:462, topic:31267â][quote=âNewNiner, post:453, topic:31267â]It sounds to me like the majority actually donât want him back, but a very vocal, small minority does.
As Iâve said before, thereâs as much evidence that Bobbyâs last 5 years were the beginning of this entire backslide as there is that he was the architect of his early success. He took over a winning program and sustained it for a few years, but then we really started to taper off. Itâs certainly better than what we have now, but thereâs at least some logic in seeing that it may have been the beginning of what we have now. There were a few losing seasons in there, big losses, late collapses, etc. Bobby never loved to recruit and he hasnât had to do it in a while. That makes it tough to get back in the game. Those last 5 years were all on the heels of sustained success, a better conference affiliation, more talent to begin with, etc.
Again, we all like Bobby. Heâs a great guy, but thereâs as much to suggest he inherited a great situation and couldnât sustain it for the long haul as there is that he built anything up. There wasnât much trending at that point - 14 wins to 20 wins to 11 wins to 19 wins.
Bobby is a good coach, a good guy, and great with fans/boosters. Iâm just not convinced (nor is most of the fan base) that heâs the hire that needs to be made for a team looking forward.[/quote]
Wow, I assume you took a survey on this? ::)[/quote]
Not a scientific one, obviously, but an informal asking around appears to be about 20 people against, 2 or 3 open to it and another 3 or 4 absolutely on board, from those Iâve talked to. Hell, many donât even post in this thread because they donât take it seriously. But the opposite assertion of certain posters (the majority of the fan base wanting it or all being on board with the exception of a discreet few) doesnât appear grounded in even that informal observation, from what Iâve seen. Iâm totally for someone putting a poll up, though.
Substantively, however, your comment does nothing to address the logical concerns that people have expressed with a return to Lutz. TRLâs point regarding Phil is logical, to the point, and could be accurate. Perhaps that truly was the root of the problem. Other issues could be: conference switch, failure to get the Tennessee job, having to start relying on his own recruiting in the latter half of his tenure, etc.
[quote=âTRLeader, post:460, topic:31267â][quote=âNinerAdvocate, post:454, topic:31267â]Mon, Nov 19, 2007
Monmouth 58
Charlotte 56 (OT)
Monmouth finished that season @ 7-24 (.226), ranked #8 in the NEC, and #310 out of 328 D1 teams. That was Bobby Lutzâs team.
I have nothing against Bobby, but the romanticizing of his era is exactly the kind of myopic childishness that we are trying to avoid.
Also:
http://ninernation.net/index.php?topic=22172.0[/quote]
For the 10th timeâŚI havenât forgotten the final years of Bobby. My contention (right or wrong) is if Philâs interference was realâŚPHILâs interference (type of kids to recruit, tone down attitude, etc) is the reason for Bobbyâs slide.
My only evidence is that Bobbyâs slide coincided with Philâs arrivalâŚwhich is an absolute fact.
Take the Phil years awayâŚand he was nearly legendary.
I would certainly entertain it for that reason alone.
Bobby coming back without having any outside direction from Phil again (which is still a longshot) could be a homerun.[/quote]
Two events happening concurrent donât mean they have a direct correlation to the cause of anything. I could make the same statement that the conference change is what caused Lutzâs slide. I seriously doubt the assertion the Phil was the sole reason for Bobbyâs slide considering it also began with a conference change among other things.
It is laughable for anyone to think that Lutz is the only coach out there that can turn things around, or that even he is capable of turning things around based on his previous success. It would be a feel good story sure and would generate excitement. For me though I could care less about a coach who generates excitement, I want a coach who in three years we are all on pins and needles hoping he doesnât get hired away.
I like Bobby, like him a lot⌠and could see a scenario where he would be successful⌠BUTâŚ
The nostalgia is getting thick here⌠and we are losing sight of some key considerations here
[ul][li]The seniors currently at Charlotte were around 8 years old the last time Lutz took a Charlotte Team to the NCAA Tournament. Iâm not sure current students could pick him out of a one man lineup[/li]
[li]Recruits were 7/8/9 years old the last time the guy was a head coach. His name isnât going to carry the cache it did in 2000. [/li]
[li]He hasnât coached a meaningful college game in 8 years[/li][/ul]
I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics. Now the question is - has he been involved because he didnât trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?
We are about to find out.
[quote=âNinerWupAss, post:467, topic:31267â]I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics. Now the question is - has he been involved because he didnât trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?
We are about to find out.[/quote]
He totally trusted Judy. Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judyâs mouth.
[quote=âmetro, post:468, topic:31267â][quote=âNinerWupAss, post:467, topic:31267â]I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics. Now the question is - has he been involved because he didnât trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?
We are about to find out.[/quote]
He totally trusted Judy. Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judyâs mouth.[/quote]
Well that is what we get publicly. The reality is he didnât hire her. Privately we have no idea how he really felt about her. I think we all know that firing her, which he basically did, wasnât possible until the circumstances played out as they did. He knew that. He also knew she was close friends with many donors. There is no way he was going to question her or do anything to break the the public perception. That is rule #1 of management - you have your peoples back no matter publicly and then coach them privately.
I am just saying he is hiring someone HE WANTS. Because he is doing that, he has an opportunity to completely hand over tasks to the new AD. I know for a fact he has been far more involved in coaching hires than most chancellors. Either he didnât trust Judy to make the hire on her own OR he just likes to be overly involved. With this being his AD hire I think we will be able to tell who is pulling the strings rather quickly.
[quote=âNinerWupAss, post:469, topic:31267â][quote=âmetro, post:468, topic:31267â][quote=âNinerWupAss, post:467, topic:31267â]I think Phil has been a huge impact on athletics. Now the question is - has he been involved because he didnât trust Judy or has he been involved because he wants to be?
We are about to find out.[/quote]
He totally trusted Judy. Every quote he used regarding sports the past 8 years was directly from Judyâs mouth.[/quote]
Well that is what we get publicly. The reality is he didnât hire her. Privately we have no idea how he really felt about her. I think we all know that firing her, which he basically did, wasnât possible until the circumstances played out as they did. He knew that. He also knew she was close friends with many donors. There is no way he was going to question her or do anything to break the the public perception. That is rule #1 of management - you have your peoples back no matter publicly and then coach them privately.
I am just saying he is hiring someone HE WANTS. Because he is doing that, he has an opportunity to completely hand over tasks to the new AD. I know for a fact he has been far more involved in coaching hires than most chancellors. Either he didnât trust Judy to make the hire on her own OR he just likes to be overly involved. With this being his AD hire I think we will be able to tell who is pulling the strings rather quickly.[/quote]
good points.
I gather he completely trusted Judy because the man really had no original thoughts on sports ever. Its like Judy handed him a cheat sheet 8 years. Just like I would need if I had to address the media about chemistry. When he did ad lib you get the famous WFNZ disaster with Mac. He always regurgitated what she said years before he arrived. When it comes to light rail or academia he is full of his own thoughts, and quite different and somewhat tolerable. He also kept her on his âcabinetâ as he loved to say, even for a FBS football start up, if he didnât trust her then he is dumber than I already think he is. Now, I would conclude somewhere in the fog of Major-Price-Lambert debacles he finally said Wtf if wrong with this lady.
I totally buy the theory is he SICK OF SPORTS and wants a capable person, finally.
I think I speak for nearly all of us when I say letâs hope this to be the case.
Rumor has it that Dubois is a micromanager. Letâs hope this isnât the case or we will get the same old shit regardless of who the AD is.
Itâs not a rumor. Itâs true. Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?
Itâs not a rumor. Itâs true. Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?[/quote]
Another wrinkle to this, Judy was obviously going to please her boss to the extreme, if he was going to micromanage she was going to let him. Letâs hope the new guy comes in and if/when Phil decides to meddle in Athletics the new AD says back off I got this⌠we will see soon enough.
Itâs not a rumor. Itâs true. Question is when it comes to sports did he micromanage because he had to or wanted to?[/quote]
Another wrinkle to this, Judy was obviously going to please her boss to the extreme, if he was going to micromanage she was going to let him. Letâs hope the new guy comes in and if/when Phil decides to meddle in Athletics the new AD says back off I got this⌠we will see soon enough.[/quote] If the new AD is young they will A) Let Phil meddle B) Tell him to back off and live a miserable existence while he makes their life Hell or outright fires them or C) Grin and bear it while counting the days until he goes away.
BTW, University of Charlotte!
Coach Lutz is going to be interviewed on Channel 3 this evening regarding the breaking basketball scandal.
He was gone from NCSU before Dennis Smith enrolled, right?
If he doesnât get back into coaching, he should be an analyst on TV games. He can explain the Xs and Os.
[quote=âfrequentvisitor, post:476, topic:31267â]Coach Lutz is going to be interviewed on Channel 3 this evening regarding the breaking basketball scandal.
He was gone from NCSU before Dennis Smith enrolled, right?
If he doesnât get back into coaching, he should be an analyst on TV games. He can explain the Xs and Os.[/quote]
That would require Bobby to actually learn the names of the players on BOTH teams!
Did anyone else listen to Bobby L on WFNZ on Friday? Was a great interview, spoke about where the program was and is now. He still has the fire and said so. In a round about way he basically said, look we went to the tourney 7 out of 10 yrs (or something like that) were regularly on ESPN, not this espn 3 crap, the mother-ship or the deuce, and he thinks this university, facility and city can get the recruits to get it back there. I would love to bring him back, was a good recruiter and knew how to attract guys that were better recruiters in great areas⌠ie DC and upper Maryland etcâŚ
elvi
Guess Bobby was including the Watkins years among those 7 NCAA appearances. Five of 12 while he was head coach with none during his final 5 seasons.
I was a lot more open to bringing back Bobby before I saw the AD resumes. Now I am certain that this is being taken seriously, and I feel that these two guys have the background required to find a coach that can win. Bobby looks good compared to the coaches that have followed him, but I am comfortable casting a wider net.