Classic / ICE cars ⛽

What does ice cars mean professor?

Did you read how you can order pretend strap on’s to turn a pretend Tesla truck into a pretend seafaring hydrofoil?

Internal combustion engine. Not sure if you’re asking for real or rhetorically.

For real. I should have GTS

EVs are amazing vehicles, amazing performance and efficiency and will be a Great Leap Forward. The idea of not having to stop and get gas is awesome And my wife not going 3k past oil change time is great.

I just hate driving them personally they bring me very little joy - of course i love the noise and the sounds of a car and love tinkering and I love getting my hands dirty and love driving and the variety. Feeling the pistons moving or a turbo sucking in air or even changing the oil in a car. Top down engine roaring feelings a drive shaft spin. Its all so much fun.

More power to those that love EVs though, just not for me as long as I push in a clutch. When I am old and tired of driving and want to be able to just stomp on the gas and requiring little of my then slow reflex’s - that EV will be amazing.

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Hydrogen smydrogen. Been talking about it for two decades.

"With a new national commitment, our scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles to taking these (hydrogen fuel cell) cars from laboratory to showroom, so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free.”

– President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

I never had a cool car growing up. Or now for that matter…

Average car dealership profit per car
2015: $1,399
2016: $1,347
2017: $1,327
2018: $1,329
2019: $1,359
2020: $1,853
2021: $3,723


Venting here, but I’ve been in the market, and this is a major pet peeve. It isn’t just EVs… ICE car prices are jacked through the roof too.

We need more people walking out of dealerships refusing to pay those markups and the practice will come to a screeching halt.

Saw a YAA video on YouTube last week where they discussed a regional dealer taking 200 used cars to auction because he was getting spooked that the auto bubble was about to burst. A few more start doing that and there’s gonna be a domino effect on car pricing.

Yeah like people complain about the prices but they keep buying cars. That’s not how it works if you want prices to come down.

I’ve been in auto finance since 1995…COVID caused chip production to halt and the supply chain is way behind. The war isn’t helping now either. Prices aren’t changing until the chip/inventory issue is resolved.

I work with over 150 franchise stores between Rock Hill and Winston Salem…and my bank does business in 46 states…it’s every market…every brand. Stores that used to carry 200+ new units in inventory on their lot at any given time now typically has less than 20. What few cars are shipped to the stores are sold as soon as they come off of the carrier.

It’s supply and demand. You want a new car now, especially a popular model or in a certain color or with certain premium options…you are lucky to find it. So you are also paying full sticker with no negotiating because there are probably 10-20 people looking for that same car and would drive 3 states over to get it.

Since new cars are few and far between…that means the used cars are too (because that’s where dealers get their used car inventory…from people trading in their cars to buy the new ones). So used car values are through the roof too. I leased a Highlander almost 3 yrs ago with no money down and 2.5 years later, based on it’s current NADA value, I have $5000 equity in it!!! I have seen my bank repo a car bought 2-3 years ago new that, again, based on current NADA value, is worth more now than what the original MSRP sticker price was!!!

The internet changed the car business in a good way. With the internet…customers can price shop dealers all over the country. No more driving to one lot in one city then having to drive to another. The convenience of price shopping via the internet basically made the dealers change how they sold cars. They now have to advertise on their internet site the best price with the lowest margin possible (unless on a very popular make/model) because if not…the customer never comes to their lot…they will go to whoever has the lowest price. Even if in another state…dealers will deliver! So…margins have been dropping ever since internet car shopping became the norm. (Dealers now have to make the bulk of their money from their service dept and selling warranties and backend products like paint protectant, tire & wheel and GAP Insurance).

But Covid changed everything. Big margins are back…bigger than ever…but not because of the dealers greed. …because of the supply and demand issue created by Covid shutting down the chip production for new cars.

If you do not absolutely NEED a car now…do not even consider buying anything.

And if you bought a new car 3, 4 or 5 yrs ago that you don’t need…sell it!!! You may literally get what you paid for it new!!

Just bought a car for $230 under wholesale, per my friend who is in dealer finance.

Screw paying MSRP or “market adjustments”.

It’s always good to know people in this industry! If that’s a new car… That’s a very good deal. If it’s a used car, it’s a good deal based on where the book value is at currently… but that book value (wholesale & retail) is still heavily inflated due to the inventory shortages… Because book values (NADA/KBB/Black Book) are based off of supply/demand, market & auction values.

On a used car the “wholesale" value today is probably at least 20% higher than it should be depending on make/model.

For example…under normal conditions with normal depreciation a typical $30,000 new car bought 4yrs ago should have a book value of somewhere around $22,000 4yrs later… But due to the inventory issues, it now has a book value of $27,000.

I would never buy a new car because of the depreciation hit once you drive it off the lot… But with where we are today, used car values are so inflated, a new car is arguably the better value today …it’s just so hard to find new cars right now!

If your friend works at a franchise dealer in the area there’s a good chance I know them and work with them. I work primarily with finance managers and some sales managers but mostly finance. Small world.

clt says everyone drives a used car

This could have just as easily gone in the EV thread. Good argument that it belongs there even more because it affects body panels AND batteries.

Also, trying to focus on the car side of the discussion. We have a thread about the political aspects of Russia, etc in our opt in Politics forum. Please feel free to discuss that stuff there.

My question is how much higher can car prices go?

Can Americans really afford to buy $45-50k and rising vehicles?

I’ll be honest - just a couple years ago I swore I would never spend a penny over $40k on a car ever. Couldn’t even imagine it. And I do better than the average Joe.

Feel like there is a bubble in the automobile industry, but when is it gonna pop? When are Kia dealers gonna stop charging $10-$20k markups on popular models? How many more buyers are out there that can afford those prices?

This feels a whole lot like the housing crisis bubble 15 years ago.

What did you get?