clt says let's talk panthers

[Mr_Bojangles]

@49r9r

[quote=“Charlotte2002, post:117, topic:30059”][quote=“49r9r, post:115, topic:30059”][quote=“NinerWupAss, post:114, topic:30059”]Like most pro sports I don’t necessarily think that refs have a clear directive to call a game a certain way, however I do think officials are told what the league would like to see happen and if their calls can influence a game a certain way then so be it. The call that wasn’t overturned was terrible and set the stage for the rest of the game and while I think the loss is partially on the refs it is just as much on the Panthers. Too many self inflicted penalties. The false starts, the fumbles, the drops, the play calling, etc.

Agree. Some of the atrocious calls would have been made correctly by most Pop Warner refs, but I am still trying to figure out why we kept running essentially the same play on 1st down, gaining roughly 1 yard every time. I think the outcome MAY have been different with better officiating. The thing that worries me most is the fact they made the blatantly horrible calls with EVERYONE watching. Is the NFL beginning to travel down the same path as the NBA?[/quote]

The challenge not being overruled was bad, but I was not surprised given how the challenge rule is structured, irrefutable evidence. It has to be 100% certain, not 99.99%. If Cotchery (one of my favorite players during his Jets days) makes the catch like he should have, its not left up to the refs to decide.

Outside of that call, there were not any calls that demonstrated any sort of referee bias, so to accuse the NFL of selection a guy from Nebraska as the referee who you might assume is a Broncos fan is utterly absurd. The Panthers stubbed their toe on multiple occasions, through pre-snap penalties and poor ball security to name a few issues. If it wasn’t for Denver’s inept offense (and Carolina’s good defense) this game would have looked like what the Panthers did to the Cardinals just the other way around. It was the completely opposite scenario that the Panthers were accustomed and they did not react well.

Broncos got destroyed 2 years ago in the same game. Panthers should be able to take this experience and be better prepared for the stage that is the Super Bowl. They have the talent and coaching to get there again, as long as folks are willing to accept that there is still a lot of room for improvement to get the ring.[/quote]

LOL. I didn’t say anything about a guy from Nebraska liking the Broncos. This game was supposed to be using the best of the NFL, yet the announcers were baffled about the calls on more then one occasion.

A couple of the other obvious calls were:

Panther’s Missed Field Goal - Denver player was obviously offside. The announcers were shocked there was no call.

Face Mask Penalty - They called the penalty, but the play should have been reviewed to see if guilty party should be ejected. That was pretty damn blatant. Perhaps they would let it slide, but the call at least deserved a review.

With that said, the Panthers themselves seemed to have no trouble digging their own grave in this game. It’s hard to win when you have that many turnovers, forget to tackle the punt returner, and gain one yard on first down over and over and over…[/quote]

A little off topic, but was anyone else really disappointing in the CBS production? Very few replays on key plays, and too much video of the announcers and other BS full screen graphics between plays. Maybe it is like that for every SB, but I’ve never noticed since I didn’t have a rooting interest.

[49RFootballNow]

@Mr. Bojangles

A little off topic, but was anyone else really disappointing in the CBS production? Very few replays on key plays, and too much video of the announcers and other BS full screen graphics between plays. Maybe it is like that for every SB, but I’ve never noticed since I didn’t have a rooting interest.

I was a bit too disappointed by other things going on in the game to notice.

[mojoniner]

@49r9r

[quote=“NinerWupAss, post:114, topic:30059”]Like most pro sports I don’t necessarily think that refs have a clear directive to call a game a certain way, however I do think officials are told what the league would like to see happen and if their calls can influence a game a certain way then so be it. The call that wasn’t overturned was terrible and set the stage for the rest of the game and while I think the loss is partially on the refs it is just as much on the Panthers. Too many self inflicted penalties. The false starts, the fumbles, the drops, the play calling, etc.

Agree. Some of the atrocious calls would have been made correctly by most Pop Warner refs, but I am still trying to figure out why we kept running essentially the same play on 1st down, gaining roughly 1 yard every time. I think the outcome MAY have been different with better officiating. The thing that worries me most is the fact they made the blatantly horrible calls with EVERYONE watching. Is the NFL beginning to travel down the same path as the NBA?[/quote]

I do think calls went Denver’s way and heck they didn’t even have a penalty called against them in the 2nd half. I mean with how aggressive their DBs play and not one penalty. There was offsides on the missed FG and Pass Interference against Ginn that wasn’t called are just a couple I remember. But the Panthers didn’t help by all the pre snap penalties and horrible play calling. You get the ball back with 4:51 left in the game down 6 and on 1st down you hand the ball to Tolbert? Hope I never see another handoff to him again. With the speed of Denver’s ends I think Shula called too many slow developing pass plays.

[mojoniner]

@Mr. Bojangles

[quote=“49r9r, post:118, topic:30059”][quote=“Charlotte2002, post:117, topic:30059”][quote=“49r9r, post:115, topic:30059”][quote=“NinerWupAss, post:114, topic:30059”]Like most pro sports I don’t necessarily think that refs have a clear directive to call a game a certain way, however I do think officials are told what the league would like to see happen and if their calls can influence a game a certain way then so be it. The call that wasn’t overturned was terrible and set the stage for the rest of the game and while I think the loss is partially on the refs it is just as much on the Panthers. Too many self inflicted penalties. The false starts, the fumbles, the drops, the play calling, etc.

Agree. Some of the atrocious calls would have been made correctly by most Pop Warner refs, but I am still trying to figure out why we kept running essentially the same play on 1st down, gaining roughly 1 yard every time. I think the outcome MAY have been different with better officiating. The thing that worries me most is the fact they made the blatantly horrible calls with EVERYONE watching. Is the NFL beginning to travel down the same path as the NBA?[/quote]

The challenge not being overruled was bad, but I was not surprised given how the challenge rule is structured, irrefutable evidence. It has to be 100% certain, not 99.99%. If Cotchery (one of my favorite players during his Jets days) makes the catch like he should have, its not left up to the refs to decide.

Outside of that call, there were not any calls that demonstrated any sort of referee bias, so to accuse the NFL of selection a guy from Nebraska as the referee who you might assume is a Broncos fan is utterly absurd. The Panthers stubbed their toe on multiple occasions, through pre-snap penalties and poor ball security to name a few issues. If it wasn’t for Denver’s inept offense (and Carolina’s good defense) this game would have looked like what the Panthers did to the Cardinals just the other way around. It was the completely opposite scenario that the Panthers were accustomed and they did not react well.

Broncos got destroyed 2 years ago in the same game. Panthers should be able to take this experience and be better prepared for the stage that is the Super Bowl. They have the talent and coaching to get there again, as long as folks are willing to accept that there is still a lot of room for improvement to get the ring.[/quote]

LOL. I didn’t say anything about a guy from Nebraska liking the Broncos. This game was supposed to be using the best of the NFL, yet the announcers were baffled about the calls on more then one occasion.

A couple of the other obvious calls were:

Panther’s Missed Field Goal - Denver player was obviously offside. The announcers were shocked there was no call.

Face Mask Penalty - They called the penalty, but the play should have been reviewed to see if guilty party should be ejected. That was pretty damn blatant. Perhaps they would let it slide, but the call at least deserved a review.

With that said, the Panthers themselves seemed to have no trouble digging their own grave in this game. It’s hard to win when you have that many turnovers, forget to tackle the punt returner, and gain one yard on first down over and over and over…[/quote]

A little off topic, but was anyone else really disappointing in the CBS production? Very few replays on key plays, and too much video of the announcers and other BS full screen graphics between plays. Maybe it is like that for every SB, but I’ve never noticed since I didn’t have a rooting interest.[/quote]

On the 3rd down play before the missed FG there was a flag thrown for defensive holding and then the head man discussed it and picked the flag up. Never saw a replay of the hold.

[NinerWupAss]

@mojoniner

[quote=“49r9r, post:115, topic:30059”][quote=“NinerWupAss, post:114, topic:30059”]Like most pro sports I don’t necessarily think that refs have a clear directive to call a game a certain way, however I do think officials are told what the league would like to see happen and if their calls can influence a game a certain way then so be it. The call that wasn’t overturned was terrible and set the stage for the rest of the game and while I think the loss is partially on the refs it is just as much on the Panthers. Too many self inflicted penalties. The false starts, the fumbles, the drops, the play calling, etc.

Agree. Some of the atrocious calls would have been made correctly by most Pop Warner refs, but I am still trying to figure out why we kept running essentially the same play on 1st down, gaining roughly 1 yard every time. I think the outcome MAY have been different with better officiating. The thing that worries me most is the fact they made the blatantly horrible calls with EVERYONE watching. Is the NFL beginning to travel down the same path as the NBA?[/quote]

I do think calls went Denver’s way and heck they didn’t even have a penalty called against them in the 2nd half. I mean with how aggressive their DBs play and not one penalty. There was offsides on the missed FG and Pass Interference against Ginn that wasn’t called are just a couple I remember. But the Panthers didn’t help by all the pre snap penalties and horrible play calling. You get the ball back with 4:51 left in the game down 6 and on 1st down you hand the ball to Tolbert? Hope I never see another handoff to him again. With the speed of Denver’s ends I think Shula called too many slow developing pass plays.[/quote]

Absolutely - Panthers didnt get any help from the refs, but the loss isn’t on the refs. Way too many of the long pass plays. With the speed of Denver’s D I am amazed we didn’t run some quick slants and dump offs or even dare I say it - some draw plays. The Denver guys say we did exactly what they saw on tape. I am pretty shocked they didnt install some packages to counter Denver’s speed.

What is amazing is considering everything as you point out Panthers were within 6 points with almost 5 minutes to go with an MVP QB. We should have been able to make the game interesting. I put the loss as much on the offensive play calling as anything else.

[NY_NINER]

Nantz and Simms are always super boring anyways. Nantz needs to stick to golf and Simms isnt anywhere close to Gruden or Collinsworth on breaking down a game.

And there were quick slant plays that were executed by either Ginn or Brown early in the 3rd quarter, but no where to be found after that. A little confusing that the quick slants didnt continue or a double move would be eventually called.

@49RFootballNow

[quote=“Mr. Bojangles, post:121, topic:30059”]A little off topic, but was anyone else really disappointing in the CBS production? Very few replays on key plays, and too much video of the announcers and other BS full screen graphics between plays. Maybe it is like that for every SB, but I’ve never noticed since I didn’t have a rooting interest.

I was a bit too disappointed by other things going on in the game to notice. :([/quote]

[system]

@Mr. Bojangles

A little off topic, but was anyone else really disappointing in the CBS production? Very few replays on key plays, and too much video of the announcers and other BS full screen graphics between plays. Maybe it is like that for every SB, but I’ve never noticed since I didn’t have a rooting interest.

Made similar comments during the game. Didnt realize what a good job Fox does.

[Niner_National]

CBS has by far the worst production value of any network that carries NFL games.

Fox, ESPN, NBC, and NFL Network are all way ahead of CBS.

[4ever_niner]

[quote=“Niner National, post:128, topic:30059”]CBS has by far the worst production value of any network that carries NFL games.

Fox, ESPN, NBC, and NFL Network are all way ahead of CBS.[/quote] Yes, I’m very happy that Carolina has very few games on CBS.

[stonecoldken]

Well in WWE not just the Refs are fake, but you lose on purpose. Maybe the NFL told Shula to make bad calls.

[s9er]

On to next year:

Roster cuts: Thanks for your time/service/efforts

Charles Johnson- Cut- 11,000,000 cap savings (4m Dead money)-
Jared Allen- Cut 8,500,000 cap savings (no dead money)
Roman Harper- Not Signed 0 cap savings (300k dead money)

Current FA’s of note:
Tolbert: Unless he takes a pay cut, I don’t see it
Tillamn: Retires
Silatolu- Always hurt- Gone
Webb- I bet he stays
Chris Scott: Useless. Gone
Velasco: Depth signing
Cortland Finnegan: Not terrible, but they need substantial upgrades. He’s gone
Lyle Love: Depth guy, re-sign
Frank Alexander: Too much weed. Gone
Stephen Hill: Too much weed. He gone too
Mike Remmers: He was decent this season but was the worst player on the field in the Superbowl. He might be back, but it will not be as the starter.
Brad Nortman: I think the entire ST needs a facelift. I’d let him walk… But not sure what the Panthers do, gut is he stays… And

Josh Norman: Franchise Tag. I honestly don’t even mess with an extension. He’s already 29 and will want a long term deal. Let someone else pay it after next season. That money will need to be save for Short/Star

The tough decisions that one of which will probably happen:

Stewart- I can totally see him being a post June 1 cut with 5.75 cap savings. He’s going on 29, he can;t play 16 games… And you don;t get healthier the older you get.
Gano- Another post June 1 option with a 2.95 mill savings (he’s league average IMO)
Kalil- Extend/restructure to free up a few mill this year.

Going into the off season they are at about 23 mill in cap space. With CJ/Allen and couple other assumed cuts they are at about 42 mill… Could get near 50 mill with a couple more moves/restructures. Take off 14mill for Norman and you still have some room to get a DE and an OT.

[EE9er]

[quote=“s9er, post:131, topic:30059”]On to next year:

Roster cuts: Thanks for your time/service/efforts

Charles Johnson- Cut- 11,000,000 cap savings (4m Dead money)-
Jared Allen- Cut 8,500,000 cap savings (no dead money)
Roman Harper- Not Signed 0 cap savings (300k dead money)

Current FA’s of note:
Tolbert: Unless he takes a pay cut, I don’t see it
Tillamn: Retires
Silatolu- Always hurt- Gone
Webb- I bet he stays
Chris Scott: Useless. Gone
Velasco: Depth signing
Cortland Finnegan: Not terrible, but they need substantial upgrades. He’s gone
Lyle Love: Depth guy, re-sign
Frank Alexander: Too much weed. Gone
Stephen Hill: Too much weed. He gone too
Mike Remmers: He was decent this season but was the worst player on the field in the Superbowl. He might be back, but it will not be as the starter.
Brad Nortman: I think the entire ST needs a facelift. I’d let him walk… But not sure what the Panthers do, gut is he stays… And

Josh Norman: Franchise Tag. I honestly don’t even mess with an extension. He’s already 29 and will want a long term deal. Let someone else pay it after next season. That money will need to be save for Short/Star

The tough decisions that one of which will probably happen:

Stewart- I can totally see him being a post June 1 cut with 5.75 cap savings. He’s going on 29, he can;t play 16 games… And you don;t get healthier the older you get.
Gano- Another post June 1 option with a 2.95 mill savings (he’s league average IMO)
Kalil- Extend/restructure to free up a few mill this year.

Going into the off season they are at about 23 mill in cap space. With CJ/Allen and couple other assumed cuts they are at about 42 mill… Could get near 50 mill with a couple more moves/restructures. Take off 14mill for Norman and you still have some room to get a DE and an OT.[/quote]

Great write up S.

I think the most pressing needs are DE, DB and OL. I thought Stewart was actually older than 29, seems like he has been here forever, I could see him being gone but I don’t know who replaces him, I don’t trust CAP as an every down back yet.

I agree with you about Norman also, tag him and let someone else give him the next deal in his 30’s. Hope that’s what they do.

[s9er]

I like Stewart, he’s a good fit for the offense… But Gettleman is a clinical dude, there are only a handful of guys every year that are ever going to be truly safe

[system]

clt says to release cam. bad attitude.

that is a hot take.

[bleedsgreenandgold]

Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

[sportsman1417]

@bleedsgreenandgold

Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

Whoa

[Nugget]

@bleedsgreenandgold

Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

Yikes! Add in $20 parking and $10 beers and that is real money.

[bleedsgreenandgold]

@Nugget

[quote=“bleedsgreenandgold, post:135, topic:30059”]Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

Yikes! Add in $20 parking and $10 beers and that is real money.[/quote]

I can only imagine the lower level increases. The silver lining is with ticket increases the pressure to win is increasingly greater. People seemed to accept a 6-7 win season when tickets were relatively cheap.

[Nugget]

@bleedsgreenandgold

[quote=“Nugget, post:137, topic:30059”][quote=“bleedsgreenandgold, post:135, topic:30059”]Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

Yikes! Add in $20 parking and $10 beers and that is real money.[/quote]

I can only imagine the lower level increases. The silver lining is with ticket increases the pressure to win is increasingly greater. People seemed to accept a 6-7 win season when tickets were relatively cheap.[/quote]
So the Niners need to increase the price of tickets?

[NinerWupAss]

@bleedsgreenandgold

[quote=“Nugget, post:137, topic:30059”][quote=“bleedsgreenandgold, post:135, topic:30059”]Just received my season ticket invoice and as expected my seats in 552 were increased $10 from $58 to $68 with sales tax it’s close $75 a game.

Yikes! Add in $20 parking and $10 beers and that is real money.[/quote]

I can only imagine the lower level increases. The silver lining is with ticket increases the pressure to win is increasingly greater. People seemed to accept a 6-7 win season when tickets were relatively cheap.[/quote]

$75 is still under league average last season.

NFL average ticket price by team 2022 | Statista