http://www.charlotte.com/109/story/196606.html
is it me, or is Dubois always in deflection mode? (football, transit study, name change/stamats)
he gets less trustworthy as time goes on.
It’s certainly not flattering news about the University, even if the review shows there was nothing improperly done.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I do not support light rail, but I will support the University and Dubois until someone proves that there was misconduct. I have only heard about a UNCC engineering faculty member on the radio that opines that Light Rail is not the answer for Charlotte traffic congestion. The Observer loves to start a fire and watch it burn. They also like to omit facts that conflict with their agenda (see any articles involving drunk illegal aliens killing US citizens with their cars as a good example). In my opinion, the Observer is the party involved that is lacking severely in integrity. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=MeanJoeGreen;248365][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] The Observer loves to start a fire and watch it burn. They also like to omit facts that conflict with their agenda (see any articles involving drunk illegal aliens killing US citizens with their cars as a good example). In my opinion, the Observer is the party involved that is lacking severely in integrity. [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
this could start another thread to itself…but what about the illegals that are drunk killing US citizens? Are you saying the Observer agenda is [B][I]HIDE[/I][/B] the fact that there are illegals who kill our citizens routinely, or are you saying they [B][I]BLAME[/I][/B] too many illegals for too many dui crashes?
[QUOTE=MeanJoeGreen;248365][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I do not support light rail, but I will support the University and Dubois until someone proves that there was misconduct. [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
I agree, I doubt they would do such a thing. But, the study was flawed for the “get go” because Dubois has banged the drum so hard on light rail. There does seem to be a pattern though of Dubois having blinders to alternative ideas. Could you imagine his reaciton had the study said light rail does NOT make sense? (hate to be at that professor’s review).
Just like with football and the name change, he gets snippy with opposition.
I broke this news to this board about a month ago. Reporting what Tera Servatious had been reporting about, and there is another article that came out a couple of days ago:
[URL=http://taraservatius.com/2007/07/11/charlottestyle-collusion-cats-chamber-uncc-cook-up-independent-study.aspx]http://taraservatius.com/2007/07/11/charlottestyle-collusion-cats-chamber-uncc-cook-up-independent-study.aspx[/URL]
And it wasn’t an engineering professor that has been against light rail, it is David Hartgen, an engineer who is a [I]retired[/I] planning professor in the Geography department. He has been against light rail for the last 6+ years. The man is very intelligent, and very Pro-Road. According to his last study, North Carolina has the 2nd worst congestion in the nation, only behind california.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that UNC Charlotte has something at stake with this whole lightrail thing. Dubois does not want to lose this thing. I mean remember the editorial Dubois wrote crying about not repealing the transit tax?
Unfortunately for those who like truth, but fortunately for the U, this thing will turnout to be nothing, the university is probing the university for goodness sakes. I mean how would you like to be a faculty member researching “what your boss did wrong”.
Also this is a MUST read:
[URL=http://charlotte.johnlocke.org/blog/?p=1574]http://charlotte.johnlocke.org/blog/?p=1574[/URL]
I think it will put some perspective on the Hauser study.
If Hauser was designing bridges using his style of “scientific” data, he would be sued.
[QUOTE=ninerID;248374]I broke this news to this board about a month ago. Reporting what Tera Servatious had been reporting about, and there is another article that came out a couple of days ago:
[URL=http://taraservatius.com/2007/07/11/charlottestyle-collusion-cats-chamber-uncc-cook-up-independent-study.aspx]http://taraservatius.com/2007/07/11/charlottestyle-collusion-cats-chamber-uncc-cook-up-independent-study.aspx[/URL]
And it wasn’t an engineering professor that has been against light rail, it is David Hartgen, an engineer who is a [I]retired[/I] planning professor in the Geography department. He has been against light rail for the last 6+ years. The man is very intelligent, and very Pro-Road. According to his last study, North Carolina has the 2nd worst congestion in the nation, only behind california.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that UNC Charlotte has something at stake with this whole lightrail thing. Dubois does not want to lose this thing. I mean remember the editorial Dubois wrote crying about not repealing the transit tax?
Unfortunately for those who like truth, but fortunately for the U, this thing will turnout to be nothing, the university is probing the university for goodness sakes. I mean how would you like to be a faculty member researching “what your boss did wrong”.[/QUOTE]
No no no, I read that article about Hartgen’s traffic study. Hartgen works at UNC.
Metro, you better be careful. Dubois might send you on a “hunting trip” with his buddy in this picture… 
[QUOTE=run49er;248378]Metro, you better be careful. Dubois might send you on a “hunting trip” with his buddy in this picture…
[/QUOTE]
good find- run.
I would suspect Dubois is pointing his middle finger behind Cheney’s head.
No no no, I read that article about Hartgen's traffic study. Hartgen works at UNC.Should my sarcasm meter be going off? Did they call him a Tarhole by mistake (or convenience)?
David Hartgen is an intelligent, but stubborn, person. If you disagree with him, you will fail his class. According to him, the only solution to congestion is more lanes. There is a point where adding lanes to highways doesn’t really relieve that much congestion.
I support the transit tax for 2 main reasons.
-
I ride the bus. A vast majority of the money from the transit tax funds the bus system. Without it, the bus service in the city gets cut in half AND reason #2 happens.
-
I own a house. If the transit tax is repealed, my property taxes will rise. And they will rise ABOVE what I am paying annually in additional sales tax.
If you live in Mecklenburg County and you like to keep your money, you will be wise to vote to keep the transit tax. Let everyone that lives outside of Meck help pay for transit, too. If the tax is repealed, we’re all alone in paying for it (even if they don’t build it).
Additional note: The local tax only pays for 10% of the project. 10% is paid by the state and 80% is funded by the federal government. This is a similar situation to other major road projects.
Now, everyone will tell me I am a :tool:
David Hartgen is an intelligent, but stubborn, person. If you disagree with him, you will fail his class. According to him, the only solution to congestion is more lanes. There is a point where adding lanes to highways doesn't really relieve that much congestion.I support the transit tax for 2 main reasons.
I ride the bus. A vast majority of the money from the transit tax funds the bus system. Without it, the bus service in the city gets cut in half AND reason #2 happens.
I own a house. If the transit tax is repealed, my property taxes will rise. And they will rise ABOVE what I am paying annually in additional sales tax.
If you live in Mecklenburg County and you like to keep your money, you will be wise to vote to keep the transit tax. Let everyone that lives outside of Meck help pay for transit, too. If the tax is repealed, we’re all alone in paying for it (even if they don’t build it).
Additional note: The local tax only pays for 10% of the project. 10% is paid by the state and 80% is funded by the federal government. This is a similar situation to other major road projects.
Now, everyone will tell me I am a :tool:
According to him, the only solution to congestion is more lanes. There is a point where adding lanes to highways doesn't really relieve that much congestion.
First, the current road situation sucks in charlotte. Second, there is absolutely no excuse that 77 from charlotte to Mooresville is not at least 3 lanes in each direction. Finally, Tober, McCrory, Syfert, and Mumford, the “grassroots” patrol of tax, will tell you that light rail is not about relieving congestion and it never has been. It is about “place making”.
At MOST the north line will take 4500 travelers away from 77 from Davidson (not mooresville) to Charlotte off the road. In 20 years it is projected that the daily cars (not people) on that road will be 177,000, so that means the spending of a couple hundred million dollars will relieve 2.5% of the travel.
I support the transit tax for 2 main reasons.
- I ride the bus. A vast majority of the money from the transit tax funds the bus system. Without it, the bus service in the city gets cut in half AND reason #2 happens.
congratulations you are at most 2% of the population. 60% of the money for transportation should not be spent on you, sorry but it shouldn’t. It is unacceptable for government to rob the other 98% of citizens blindly like this.
2) I own a house. If the transit tax is repealed, my property taxes will rise. And they will rise ABOVE what I am paying annually in additional sales tax.
Or you could vote in more sensible government leaders. If they would have been more honest about the true costs of the light rail project upfront they wouldnt be in this mess. Pam Syfert to have the audacity to threaten the reduction in fire and police staff if the tax is repealed is just appauling. These clowns really have no idea what is going on.
My guess is that with current cost overruns, and the new $516 million school bond our property taxes are going up anyways.
Additional note: The local tax only pays for 10% of the project. 10% is paid by the state and 80% is funded by the federal government. This is a similar situation to other major road projects.
Edd Hauser is that you?
The north line for instance:
Rail Line $261 million[COLOR=red] (This assumes the costs don’t overrun, b/c that seems to happen*)[/COLOR]
$65 million from NCDOT [COLOR=red](The state is you, don’t let that fool you. When you buy gas the .22 NC tax you pay goes to fund this, not the roads you intend to drive on, the other tax is federal tax which you pay as well.)[/COLOR]
$88 million from CATS (half-cent tax) [COLOR=red](33% of the project is funded by the transit tax, not 10%)
[/COLOR]$24 million CATS Gateway Station Fund
$18 million from Mooresville [COLOR=red](at the moment, Mooresville is not interested in paying for the line)[/COLOR]
$65 million Federal Railroad bonds
Station enhancements $97 million
All funding would come from TIF bonds or instruments
http://www.huntersvilleherald.com/articles/2007/06/22/news/local/local02.txt
*Cost overuns on the south line are at 140%, so taking that math the north line will cost $626 Million.
If you want me to, I will bring out the air quality/revocation of federal highway funding argument, but most people wouldn’t understand it.
Want more roads? Want I-485 built? Want I-77 widened? Want I-485 wided in Pineville? We won’t get any of them if the light rail isn’t built. That’s the gist of it. I can provide a more technical and detailed explanation if anyone would like it.
If you want me to, I will bring out the air quality/revocation of federal highway funding argument, but most people wouldn't understand it.Want more roads? Want I-485 built? Want I-77 widened? Want I-485 wided in Pineville? We won’t get any of them if the light rail isn’t built. That’s the gist of it. I can provide a more technical and detailed explanation if anyone would like it.
If you have links post them, or just PM them to me, I find this stuff interesting.
But my question with that argument is: Why do Syfert, McCrory, Mumford, Tober, Hartgen, Hauser, John Locke Foundation, Jim Puckett, SCAT, Keith Larson, etc. NEVER talk about this part of it. I have heard you mention this before, and neither side pro or anti transit tax, ever mention it, or maybe I am missing it.
Me and you debate tranist tax in plenty of threads, what are your thoughts on the allegations of Dubois/UNCC possibly skewing the results with the study?
I recently attended the Transit Land Use Summit hosted by the Charlotte Chamber where our own Dr. Hauser presented his findings that are now in question. It was only a matter of time before someone would want further examination of his findings. I believe his findings to be correct and I am against the repeal of the 1/2 cent sales tax but when the Chamber is asking for the report and Dr. Phil has been for a station on campus of course it will raise concerns about a UNC Charlotte sponsored analysis. Too many people were too close to the project in the “for transit” lobby. As for the David Hartgen comment about him being intelligent, I have taken his class and believe he is a pompous ass. He ignores everybody elses arguments or comments unless they talk about more roads. He is in love with asphalt and believes everyone who likes transit and planning are communists. It sickens me that he is associated with UNC Charlotte. I beleive the citizens of Charlotte will make the correct decision and keep the 1/2 cent sales tax, it getting repealed not only kills our WHOLE transit system but also makes it unlikely that we ever get help from Raleigh again, which like it or not we will always need as long as the state capital is up the road. The keynote speaker, a senator for NC, explained at the Transit Summit that our road system is going down the tubes and the budget gap continues to grow, even though we have some of the highest gas taxes in the country. BTW, this is the major source of funding for road construction in this state, another mistake. Transit is the only alternative that is economical to get ourselves out of congestion. We just don’t have the money to continue to build roads, meaning don’t hold your breath for the last section I-485 in the UC to ever get finished.
I recently attended the Transit Land Use Summit hosted by the Charlotte Chamber where our own Dr. Hauser presented his findings that are now in question. It was only a matter of time before someone would want further examination of his findings. I believe his findings to be correct and I am against the repeal of the 1/2 cent sales tax but when the Chamber is asking for the report and Dr. Phil has been for a station on campus of course it will raise concerns about a UNC Charlotte sponsored analysis. Too many people were too close to the project in the "for transit" lobby. As for the David Hartgen comment about him being intelligent, I have taken his class and believe he is a pompous ass. He ignores everybody elses arguments or comments unless they talk about more roads. He is in love with asphalt and believes everyone who likes transit and planning are communists. It sickens me that he is associated with UNC Charlotte. I beleive the citizens of Charlotte will make the correct decision and keep the 1/2 cent sales tax, it getting repealed not only kills our WHOLE transit system but also makes it unlikely that we ever get help from Raleigh again, which like it or not we will always need as long as the state capital is up the road. The keynote speaker, a senator for NC, explained at the Transit Summit that our road system is going down the tubes and the budget gap continues to grow, even though we have some of the highest gas taxes in the country. BTW, this is the major source of funding for road construction in this state, another mistake. Transit is the only alternative that is economical to get ourselves out of congestion. We just don't have the money to continue to build roads, meaning don't hold your breath for the last section I-485 in the UC to ever get finished.
I had hartgens class and yes he is very cocky, but its a very easy A.
You said I made a mistake in that gas tax funds the roads, and i read back and i didn’t clarify enough. I know that, that is where the construction money comes from, i was trying to say that construction dollars for the light rail project come from dollars spent on gasoline. Which in my mind is unfair. We pay a tax b/c we use the roads, they need maintenance and the occasional added lanes and such, and we don’t have that much money in the bank as it is, and we take some of that money to build rail lines.
as for your post you were making sense until you said that light rail was economical and that it will get us out of congestion. There isn’t one fact you can pose that makes that statement true. As I posted earlier, Gov Co. even says that this isn’t about relieving congestion, and my gosh look at the cost of this thing per how many people it helps versus the cost of another lane of interstate, its not economical at all.
The thing that bugs me is that the transit tax isn’t the real name of what this thing is. The tax was made to create alternative modes of tranportation to relieve congestion. Nothing other than light rail has been reviewed. There could be a look at increasing the capabilites of telecommuting for the large banks downtown, they also could look at “timesharing” where BoA, Wachovia, and Duke went to a 4 day work week. BoA is off on Tuesday, Wachovia off on Wed, and Duke off on Thursday. Think of how much that takes off the road.
I do think that the transit tax will not be repealed though. However, it is sad that we live in one of the most taxed City’s in the southeast, and we still need 0.5% sales tax and $516 million in school bonds to keep up. Our school system is a joke, and the crime in this town has gotten worse. We have nice trains and a nice arena though.
You are right, the class was an easy A.
My gas tax comment wasn’t tied to your post at all, this was what I heard from the meeting I was in. Your post about gas money going to LRT construction is off I think. Unless the 1/2 sales tax goes toward the gas tax, there is no direct money from the 16 cent or so gas tax that goes to LRT construction. It is funded by 1/2 federal $, 1/4 state $ earmarked specifically for Mass Transit, and the balance from our 1/2 sales tax so I don’t see how any gas tax goes toward LRT. Also, the transit plan looks at other forms of transit other than LRT. 65% of the 1/2 sales tax goes to the operation and expansion of the bus system and out of the 5 new Mass Transit corridors, two are BRT with streetcar as well. I understand the argument for other forms of transportation, i.e. telecommuting & alternate day working like you mentioned but I believe that BRT, LRT, & Commuter Rail give you more bang for the buck. We are building capacity that will be needed in the future, capacity that other alternatives do not offer. I hope that the public realizes that this system is not only being built for today but more importantly 50 and 100 yrs from now when construction costs will be even more outrageous and widening roads will continue to be difficult. The South Corridor LRT will almost certainly always take 25 minutes to go from I-485 to Uptown while the same cannot be said for surface streets and I-77. Mass transit has a large capital outlay at the onset but maintence costs are considerably less than expansion and upkeep of the road system when you look 25, 50, and 100 years down the road.
You are right, the class was an easy A.My gas tax comment wasn’t tied to your post at all, this was what I heard from the meeting I was in. Your post about gas money going to LRT construction is off I think. Unless the 1/2 sales tax goes toward the gas tax, there is no direct money from the 16 cent or so gas tax that goes to LRT construction. It is funded by 1/2 federal $, 1/4 state $ earmarked specifically for Mass Transit, and the balance from our 1/2 sales tax so I don’t see how any gas tax goes toward LRT. Also, the transit plan looks at other forms of transit other than LRT. 65% of the 1/2 sales tax goes to the operation and expansion of the bus system and out of the 5 new Mass Transit corridors, two are BRT with streetcar as well. I understand the argument for other forms of transportation, i.e. telecommuting & alternate day working like you mentioned but I believe that BRT, LRT, & Commuter Rail give you more bang for the buck. We are building capacity that will be needed in the future, capacity that other alternatives do not offer. I hope that the public realizes that this system is not only being built for today but more importantly 50 and 100 yrs from now when construction costs will be even more outrageous and widening roads will continue to be difficult. The South Corridor LRT will almost certainly always take 25 minutes to go from I-485 to Uptown while the same cannot be said for surface streets and I-77. Mass transit has a large capital outlay at the onset but maintence costs are considerably less than expansion and upkeep of the road system when you look 25, 50, and 100 years down the road.
North Carolinas gas tax is 30.2 cents per gallon, not 16. That puts us at 7th highest in the nation, and gets us 2nd worst rating in congestion. The biggest mistake people make is thinking that the government just gives you money, no it gives you back YOUR money to build these projects. The money from the state for transportation comes from gas tax, if it comes from my income tax then I would be just as pissed. Same goes for federal.
How can light rail be more bang for your buck? Setting up a sharing plan or a telecommuting plan capable of taking 4500 people off the roads, would not cost nearly over 1 billion dollars.
On the south line, 25 minutes will get you from the station north of 485 to uptown. You fail to mention, if you live in Ballantyne (where a lot of people live, that work uptown) you will still have to get on 485 (which will still be only 4 lanes) to get to South Blvd , get off the exit at south rather than77, and get to the station, take your 25 min train ride, get on a bus or walk, that is way more than 25 min.
When light rail is built, we will still need more lanes, more roads, more infrastructure. You need roads to get you to the stations, you need roads to get you from the other stations. And you need roads for growth, and light rail only dents that. Look at Atlanta, they are always building more roads, and Marta is a relatively successful project. Also 85 N of atlanta is 8 lanes for 15 miles, the same cannot be said for Charlotte.