I’m not as familiar as a lot of you guys are with the history of the whole program.I wanted to get some feedback on 2 questions…1)What’s the deal with no football? I’ve heard different stuff,like something about some old lady who gave a lot of $ to the school,but only if we didn’t do football?? Is there any truth to that or what are the reasons for no football??..2)This question’s a little stickier…I think most of us would love to be going to the big east rather than the a-10,I know I would…the thought of competing against Syracuse,UCONN etc. would be unbelievable,tho I know we’d take some knocks.I had thought that the “new” big east was supposed to be only for schools with football/basketball…but obviously that’s not so(Providence,ST.JOHNS)…did we lose out on having a shot to get into the mix because we don’t have an aggressive A.D.?i KNOW THIS IS GONNA COME OUT WRONG AND SOUND SEXIST,OR SOMETHING…but I never hear any buzz or excitement about Judy Rose,and every time I see her come out to halfcourt in the librarians outfit I kinda say"that’s our athletic director?" I guess what i’m asking to those that have some history here…is she a big-time athletic director?
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Same story I heard about football, don’t know how much truth is behind it though. Money is pretty much the final answer now, why we didn’t start one years and years ago I don’t know(we actually had one for 3 years from what I’ve heard, the Owls).
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A lot of reasons no Big East(yet), Judy Rose isn’t one of them. She’s been great for us and has done many things on a national level for us. I can’t remember specifically, but she was the head of some national comitee for a few years, it was a very prestegous position for any AD to hold.
Popular reasons for no Big East include, but not limited to:
-We’re not Catholic. So we didn’t get included with Depaul and Marquette
-We’re in ACC land, Big East knows attempting to gain viewers here won’t be easy
-Marquette coming off of their one season got in and took Depaul with them
-We don’t have football. It wouldn’t have made us a lock, but it didn’t help not having a team
Then there’s the rumors the Big East will split in about 5 years, forming a basketball only league which they would pillage the A10 to form(the A10 would then take their pick of the CAA and other smaller conferences). It’s almost unanimously accepted that this split will happen, whether or not we would be in this new conference or left behind in the A10 is unknown. Success is the only way to ensure we aren’t demoted to mid-major status in about 5 years.
A poster named Metro could prob. give you a pretty detailed answer to these questions.
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You’ll have to do a search here regarding the football question. No, Bonnie Cone did not prevent football here, in fact Charlotte College had a team, the Owls. The first chancellor, Dean Colvard thought basketball could be more successful. There was no rich benefactor to prevent football ever. Pick up a copy of Ken Sanford’s book about the University’s history. I’m sure it’s in the campus bookstore or a least in the library.
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Providence and St. John’s were already in the Big East. They needed teams to replace Boston College, Miami and Va Tech in football. They took Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida as replacements and then took DePaul and Marquette to balance out the league with 16 (far too large) schools. Football and and the Chicago media market took priority over anything Charlotte could have offered the Big East right now. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake, a successful Charlotte athletic program would be a slap in the area of the ACC.
What’s your idea of a big-time AD? There’s been over $40 million spent on facilities that weren’t here; the Barnhardt Center/Halton Arena, the Belk Track & Field Stadium/Transamerica Field, the Miltimore-Wallis Center and the Wachovia Fieldhouse. And no that’s no all that’s needed here. I won’t get into a pro-con argument on Judy Rose.
Librarian’s outfit? Now that’s a new one.
One obstacle in adding a football program is that NCAA proposition (can’t remember the number) that you must spend equally or proportionally on men’s & women’s athletic programs.
So in effect, if you spend $15m to add a men’s football program you are required to spend $15m (or whatever proportion it is) to add women’s athletic programs.
Schools that did not already have football programs then found it a near financial impossibility to add them once this proposition was passed. I have heard this reason explained in the past as a big part of why we do not have a football program.
I am not 100% sure that this proposition is still in effect. If anyone has better info then please correct me.
Title IX
That “old lady” is Bonnie Cone and without her there probably wouldn’t be a UNC Charlotte. Show some respect.
[i]Originally posted by WastedNiner[/i]@Feb 9 2005, 01:26 AM [b] One obstacle in adding a football program is that NCAA proposition (can't remember the number) that you must spend equally or proportionally on men's & women's athletic programs.So in effect, if you spend $15m to add a men’s football program you are required to spend $15m (or whatever proportion it is) to add women’s athletic programs.
Schools that did not already have football programs then found it a near financial impossibility to add them once this proposition was passed. I have heard this reason explained in the past as a big part of why we do not have a football program.
I am not 100% sure that this proposition is still in effect. If anyone has better info then please correct me. [/b]
Title IX is still in full effect, but the only “spending” that has to be equal towards women’s sports is with scholarships. If we started a football team with the maximum 85 scholarship players, it would mean that we would have to grant at least 85 more scholarships to women’s sports. This can easily be gotten around to avoid having to spend the large amounts of money associated with football. See what Kansas State is doing to comply in the article below. As long as you offer the scholarships, it does not matter what sport they are for or that the team even really competes. Badmitton anyone!!! Football has actually surged during the Title IX era. It’s the lesser men’s sports that have taken the hit to balance out the disproportion of scholarships that Title IX was brought about to end.
See also in the article that 46% of athletic departments are LOSING money. Most everybody here wants a football team, but almost none would be happy with a LOSING football team. To get the recruits needed to win, you have to have the following things: tradition, state-of-the-art facilities, a “name” coach, and TV time. The only one we could foreseeably offer in starting a program is the state-of-the-art facilities. That would cost a lot of money. Not only are the start-up costs enormous, the cost of sustaining a football program is unreal as well. Most of these athletic departments that are losinjg money are ones with I-A football, and they aren’t just the programs that lose most of their games from year to year. Should we start football, the smart thing to do would be to have an I-AA program for a decade so that we can find out how profitable (or not) having football would be. We could also find out how much support we would actually have. Many people on here say they will back a football program, but when it comes time to anty up they don’t pull out their wallets.
2003 ESPN.com Article on Title IX and Football
We have a Top 50 basketball program that has made the NCAA Tourney 6 out of the last 8 years, yet we can’t even sell out a 9,105 seat arena more than 1-2 times per season. How are we going to support football? There aren’t 20,000 people in the area who are going to suddenly show up at a football stadium just because we have a team. We might be able to get enough alumni and students for the first game, but they won’t be back after the thrill wears off. See my point in action tonight at the Houston game. We’ll do well to have 6,000 after having a sellout crowd on Saturday.
[i]Originally posted by X-49er[/i]@Feb 9 2005, 08:20 AM [b] We have a Top 50 basketball program that has made the NCAA Tourney 6 out of the last 8 years, yet we can't even sell out a 9,105 seat arena more than 1-2 times per season. How are we going to support football? There aren't 20,000 people in the area who are going to suddenly show up at a football stadium just because we have a team. We might be able to get enough alumni and students for the first game, but they won't be back after the thrill wears off. See my point in action tonight at the Houston game. We'll do well to have 6,000 after having a sellout crowd on Saturday. [/b]College athletic programs have a set geographic area they must MARKET/SELL to. It is the program's JOB to CREATE DEMAND for the product. The ACC mastered this years ago. We have the most alums of any school in this city along with high per capita income and a corporation or two. :rolleyes:
our program couldn’t sell a one night stand with Angelina Jolie on a Navy ship.
thats why there is no interest.
[i]Originally posted by X-49er[/i]@Feb 9 2005, 08:20 AM [b] the smart thing to do would be to have an I-AA program for a decade so that we can find out how profitable (or not) having football would be. We could also find out how much support we would actually have. [/b]bingo
I had money on you being the first to respond, Metro. Now I’m rich.
[b]We have the most alums of any school in this city along with high per capita income and a corporation or two.[/b]
Most of these folks are the same former students who wouldn’t walk across campus to watch a basketball game in which they would have gotten got into FREE every time. You think they’re going to spend money to watch/support a team they care nothing about to begin with? You can’t sale a product to somebody that doesn’t want to buy it, unless their an idiot. You’ve pointed out in the past that we don’t get baseball recruits because of the facilities we have/don’t have. I tend to agree with you. We already have all of that for basketball and are getting the recruits and having successful seasons. But where are the fans and the support? Bandwagon fans don’t support the athletic program. We don’t have enough die-hard fans to fill up a modest basketball arena, let alone football.
I’m always amused and saddened by that damned lie about Bonnie Cone and football. I’d like to meet the moron who started that.
I’m also amused by a comment that we didn’t get into the Big East because we’re not a Catholic institution. Then why in the world are we joining the A-10? Heck, half of the schools are Catholic-affiliated! I’m pretty sure that Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida are all state institutions! :rolleyes:
And where in the world did that “librarian’s outfit” come from? Maybe dressed like a businesswoman…
Geez!
Anytime football is brought up and the comment that we have trouble selling out for basketball I think something is being missed. Basketball is nothing more than a ball game, that is all. A football game is an event. Football games occur on saturday afternoons when really as a student there is not much else to do, basketball occurs in the evenings when there is ALOT to do. Football is an excuse to have an all day party, basketball is simply an evening activity. A football game day at a college campus has always amazed me… that is why I spent most of my weekends at Raleigh or Chapel Hill while a student. Heck even Duke football is fun! I think what is being missed here is that you don’t have to be good to be popular. The other thing is we are in ACC in country and face it almost ALL of our students grow up a fan of an ACC school. Not having football makes it VERY easy for those students to maintain their feelings for the schools they grew up cheering for. It is difficult for us to ask a student not to be a Carolina fan, when during the fall they sit and watch Carolina football. We need to break freshmen of their “other” school when they step on our campus. We will not be able to do that until we have a reason to make them stay on campus in the fall. If this happens you would not only see good crowds for football but also larger crowds for basketball games. I understand the money aspect and that is a different arguement, but don’t use the we can’t fill up an arena for basketball arguement. JMO
[i]Originally posted by X-49er[/i]@Feb 9 2005, 09:20 AM [b] To get the recruits needed to win, you have to have the following things: tradition, state-of-the-art facilities, a "name" coach, and TV time. [/b]not Viginia Tech, not Virginia Tech, not Virginia Tech, not Virginia Tech
[b]Most of these folks are the same former students who wouldn't walk across campus to watch a basketball game in which they would have gotten got into FREE every time. [/b]
Actually most of these folks did not have an on campus arena, atleast not the folks who are at a point in their career to make sizable donations. I graduated in 96 and did not have the benefit of Halton. I was driving to the coliseum and the Big I. So even getting in free, we had to drive to the other side of town, ussually during rush hour and pay for parking. Hardly the easy solution for a Wed night game.
The other thing about alumni… keep in mind that the university really wasn’t that big until fairly recently. That means the number of alumni really is not that big and most are disconnected from a university that I feel does a poor job of keeping their folks connected.
I am no fan of Judy… she does look like a librarian with a bad hair cut. It is said that Judy has been able to $40 million to build all those facilities that outside of Halton generate next to no funds… tell me again why football is off the table??? If Wachovia and Transamerica and Pepsi have supported us thus far, where does the idea that the corporate community would not support a football program that would generate much more interest and buzz than most of the things they have supported up to this point. How many folks really know about the Wachovia Fieldhouse? Is that a good return for their investment? Football would be much more high profile.
I know football would be alot more, but as I said before until I get something in the mail from the AD asking me what I could contribute to support a football program it is a hollow excuse. If they send out surveys asking what I would support and how much I can give and they still can’t make it work then fine I will support that. I just want them to be honest and really try.
Lane Stadium and its facillities are state-of-the-art. You’re telling me Frank Beamer is not a name coach? Still, we’ll never see 49er football.
The Big East chose football schools(UC. UofL, & USF). Then they grabbed two Catholic schools(Marquette & DePaul). Major Catholic schools traditionaly generate alot of money. Also they are in two major markets(Chicago and Milwaukee). Do we have a better program than DePaul? Absolutely. Chicago is the third largest market and natural rivalries can ensue between former C-USA schools and Notre Dame. Charlotte would have no regional rivalries in the conference, and is in a medium-big market that only marginally supports the team.
The ACC raping of the Big East raping of C-USA was an opportunity for the A 10 to increase its basketball standing. Its the best thing that could of happened to Charlotte after the ACC ruined our happy little home.
If the 16 team Big East disbands, I’d like to see this realignment. An A10 big East bbal hybrid could be awesome. I know this may be a bit optimistic, but here’s what I want:
Charlotte
Dayton
DePaul
Fordham(maybe replace with LaSalle or Richmond)
George Washington
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
Rhode Island
St. John’s
St. Joseph’s
Temple
UMass
Xavier
[b]Football games occur on saturday afternoons when really as a student there is not much else to do, basketball occurs in the evenings when there is ALOT to do[/b]
That point will hold no weight when we play Southern Miss in a couple of weeks on a Saturday afternoon. We will still do well to have 6500 for that game. There will be apathetic students sitting in their dorm rooms doing nothing. I came to games nights before tests so that excuse holds little weight with me. I understand if you have a night class or have to work, but “I have to study” is not the best one. There are plenty of other times to study so you can make the game.
[b]Actually most of these folks did not have an on campus arena, at least not the folks who are at a point in their career to make sizable donations. I graduated in 96 and did not have the benefit of Halton. I was driving to the coliseum and the Big I. So even getting in free, we had to drive to the other side of town, ussually during rush hour and pay for parking. Hardly the easy solution for a Wed night game[/b]
I only got one year in with an on-campus arena, as I graduated in 1997. Apathy is apathy. It existed then just as it does now. If the lazy-asses aren’t going to drive across town to see a basketball game when all they have is school to worry about, do you think they’re going to drive however much further to watch a football game with all of their other stuff going on in their lives now?
[b]The other thing about alumni... keep in mind that the university really wasn't that big until fairly recently. That means the number of alumni really is not that big and most are disconnected from a university that I feel does a poor job of keeping their folks connected.[/b]
Our university is indeed still young. Those that want to stay connected can, and do. It’s easier now more than ever with the internet coverage on our website(s).
[b]A football game day at a college campus has always amazed me... that is why I spent most of my weekends at Raleigh or Chapel Hill while a student. [/b]
I, too, attend ACC football games, but I don’t use it as an excuse not to support my own alma mater’s athletic department or programs that do exist.
[b]Heck even Duke football is fun! [/b]
Only if you like losing, or you happen to be pulling for the opponent.
[b]I know football would be alot more, but as I said before until I get something in the mail from the AD asking me what I could contribute to support a football program it is a hollow excuse. [/b]
Even better, why don’t you send them a check designated for Charlotte football. Worst case scenario, they use it in support of other athletic programs. If you call them and get a fund established for it, then we can all start sending money.
[QUOTE]That point will hold no weight when we play Southern Miss in a couple of weeks on a Saturday.[/QUOTE]
You are missing the point. Football is an event, not just a game. You can not and should not compare a basketball game with a football game.
[QUOTE]do you think they’re going to drive however much further to watch a football game with all of their other stuff to do now?[/QUOTE]
Yes they will, as I said it is an event. There is a reason I was willing to drive 4 hours for a football game but not a basketball game. Not to mention this gets alumni back in town and maybe donate more money.
[QUOTE]It’s easier now more than ever with the internet coverage on out website.[/QUOTE]
It is easier than it was, but is still poor. I rarely get any information from the university. I should not have to seek out info all the time.
[QUOTE]I, too, attend ACC football games, but I don’t use it as an excuse not to support my own alma mater’s athletic department or programs. [/QUOTE]
It becomes an excuse for a person to maintain their fanhood. I kicked my Carolina fanhood growing up to the curb, but many… or should I say most do not. It is hard to ask a student to do that when they are spending saturdays in the Dean Dome looking at retired numbers and championship banners. Also important to understand people have limited funds… money that is sent to the Rams Club for football tickets could be money going to the 49er club.
[/QUOTE]Heck even Duke football is fun! [QUOTE]
Again you are missing the point. Being at the game is fun! I went to many of Panther games when they were 1-15… did losing stink? Yes…but it was still fun! Winning would build bigger crowds, but a party is a party.
[/QUOTE]Even better, why don’t you send them a check designated for Charlotte football. [QUOTE]
Give me a football team and the money I spend going to Panther games may find it’s way to UNCC. I am not going to tighten my purse strings for the AD to fund women’s volleyball. I have given money with a note to use for football, but we both know where that stands.
[b]It is hard to ask a student to do that when they are spending saturdays in the Dean Dome looking at retired numbers and championship banners.[/b]
What does the Dean Dome have to do with us not having football? We have retired jersies and banners of our own. Sounds like someone CHOSE to root for the Tar Heels.
[b]I am not going to tighten my purse strings for the AD to fund women's volleyball. I have given money with a note to use for football, but we both know where that stands. [/b]
Like I said, call and push to get a football fund started. You and Metro are adament about it, so start taking some action.
[b]You are missing the point. Football is an event, not just a game. You can not and should not compare a basketball game with a football game. [/b]
Yes, I can. I like basketball better than football. It sounds like you like football better than basketball. Anybody that was at the Cincy game Saturday cannot tell me that it was not an “event”. It is what you make it. I realize that there is not time to tailgate before the weekday games, but that’s no reason to not show up.
WB’s point (I think) is that, people who aren’t passionate about the team will still go to a football game when they might not go to a basketball game. No one on this board disagrees that cincy game wasn’t a huge event . IT’s just that football brings out a lot of people. Even a game against St. Louis would be a good football game and would draw people. (Assuming we both got teams)
Look at a high school football game. Do those teams get a lot of media coverage? Are all of the students huge football fans? No, probably not for the most part.
People just go because it is more of an event and a party and a good game. Basketball games are just the games. They aren’t parties or events. You walk in in 30 min. before tipoff. you leave at the buzzer. Thats it. Even for cincy. Football, you eat and get trashed in the parking lot before and after the game.
My explanation for this fan behavior isn’t about the people on this messageboard, but more your typical fringe person who only marginally follows what is going on with the sports.