[QUOTE=J Felt;431448]If that was the truth then Lebron James would have already won a championship.
Jordan never wins those championships without the great team around him. He was the best, and made the team better. But he was allowed to be the BEST because of the people around him as well.[/QUOTE]
clt says we have a winner. when lebron gets his pippen, he will win.
jordan won nothing without pippen.
Jordan has no class at all. I liked Van Gundy’s comment that he is a “con man”. Also the comment about being a MIA Bobcats exec. and trying to find great players on the golf links. Great stuff.
jordan won nothing without pippen.not gonna argue that... BUT no way the Bulls win all those championships without Jordan. I believe Jordan would have won championships given any supporting cast.
I don’t understand the issue with his speech. I look at his speech coming from the player and not everything after retirement. He may not be the most humble, but we are to blame for putting him on that pedestal. Is he a wonderful people person, maybe not… but a great player? Yes, no one can deny he is one of, if not the best.
[QUOTE=cibik02;431505]not gonna argue that… BUT no way the Bulls win all those championships without Jordan. I believe Jordan would have won championships given any supporting cast.
I don’t understand the issue with his speech. I look at his speech coming from the player and not everything after retirement. He may not be the most humble, but we are to blame for putting him on that pedestal. Is he a wonderful people person, maybe not… but a great player? Yes, no one can deny he is one of, if not the best.[/QUOTE]
Well, he didn’t win any championships with just “any” supporting cast. No one else would have either. Takes more than one great player, ask Wilt and he was the greatest player ever, period.
You are correct though, the Bulls win nothing w/o Jordan and he was a great player.
[QUOTE=cibik02;431505]not gonna argue that… BUT no way the Bulls win all those championships without Jordan. I believe Jordan would have won championships given any supporting cast.
I don’t understand the issue with his speech. I look at his speech coming from the player and not everything after retirement. He may not be the most humble, but we are to blame for putting him on that pedestal. Is he a wonderful people person, maybe not… but a great player? Yes, no one can deny he is one of, if not the best.[/QUOTE]
clt agrees that jordan was important to those teams, but would have drexler won if he had pippen? how about barkley?
jordon=great player, but a product of the nike marketing machine.
wilt was the best ever.
I don’t disagree that Jordan probably wouldn’t have won without Pippen but some of you make it sound like Jordan said he did it all by himself. The first part of his speech he made a comment along the lines of “all those highlights, you don’t just see me in those pictures. You see Scottie Pippen.” MJ has always made comments like that about Pippen, that it wasn’t just him.
If you want to rip him for being arrogant, I get that. But I don’t get all the “he couldn’t have won without Pippen” when the guy says it himself. Heck, what other players in the last 20 years could win without other all-stars?
[QUOTE=cltniners;431534]clt agrees that jordan was important to those teams, but would have drexler won if he had pippen? how about barkley?
[/QUOTE]
Drexler won with Hakeem. Barkley and Pippen were on the same team (Rockets) but couldn’t get along. That says something IMO, if you can get along w Jordan but not Barkley.
[QUOTE=forDniner;431566]Drexler won with Hakeem. Barkley and Pippen were on the same team (Rockets) but couldn’t get along. That says something IMO, if you can get along w Jordan but not Barkley.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I agree with the Barkley/Pippen example. Both were on the back end of careers. If I recall correctly it was Pippen wanting the O ran through him and was tired of playing 2nd banana to another star, but that’s been a few beers ago.
Go read Rick Riley’s column on ESPN.com about Jordan’s speech. Spot on. Called Jordan the world’s first sore winner. LOL