John Fox & Co.

With an Uncapped season on the Horizon, we may not have much of a team left at all if Richardson doesn’t open his wallet up and make some major and GOOD staff changes…

I understand frustration with Fox, but he's a guy that can win a Super Bowl. You don't get rid of that. Who are you going to bring in Cowher? How long was he at Pittsburgh before he won a title? Compare his career to Fox, not that different. Panthers have a tough schedule, I get it. They are going to lose some games this year, and the poor start doesn't help.

But, the panthers were 1-15 before he got here. You sure you really want to go back to that? Look at how much trouble they’ve had in TB since they got rid of their head coach. The Ravens are the only team I can think of that have had much success after firing a SB caliber coach.

Yeah, some of their WR choices haven’t panned out, but they did draft Steve Smith.

Sam Bradford was a product of an outstanding 0-Line, I’m not sure he’s going to set the world on fire. Who was the last really jetsetting college QB to come to the NFL and succeed? Peyton Manning?

I mean, look at the guys that are starting QBs:
Rothelisberger - Miami, OH
Brady - Michigan (6th round pick, right?)
Flacco - Deleware
Brees - Purdue
Ryan - BC
E Manning - Ole Miss
P Manning - Tennesssee
Collins - Penn State
Pennington - Marshall
Palmer - USC
Rodgers - Cal
Cutler - Vandy
Orton - Purdue
Russell - LSU
Hill - Maryland

Russell is out of LSU, but I don’t know many people who wouldn’t label him as underwhelming. Carson Palmer is probably the most recent big name QB to have success in the NFL. Guys who play for national titles generally aren’t the best QBs. It’s why I think it is so funny that people christen SB victorys on the QB. It is very much a team game, the Panthers don’t need a Drew Brees type, but if they are going to get him, it’s likely not going to be from OU, Texas, Florida, or USC. It’ll be from UL-L, Temple or the Big 10.

Fox has been in Carolina 7 years (this is his eighth). So let’s compare Fox’s first seven to Cowher’s first seven.

Fox-
Reg season record- 63-49 (54.4%)
Playoff record- 5-3
3 Playoff apearances
3 losing seasons
2 division crowns
2 NFC Championship game appearances
1 SB appearance (lost)

Cowher-
Reg season record- 71-41 (63%)
Playoff record- 5-6
6 playoff appearances
1 losing season
5 division crowns
3 AFC Championship games
1 SB appaerance (lost)

Cowher offers one more win a year, twice the playoff appearances, 1/3 of the losing seasons, 2.5 times more division crowns one more championship game appearance and just as many SB appearances.

I’ll take the latter.

But as they say, “It is what it is” and sometimes you “pick a bad day to have a bad day”. :huh:

Also, of the 15 QB’s listed above 12 come from BCS schools. Not sure what your point is.

[QUOTE=Mullins Maniac;432818]Fox has been in Carolina 7 years (this is his eighth). So let’s compare Fox’s first seven to Cowher’s first seven.

Fox-
Reg season record- 63-49 (54.4%)
Playoff record- 5-3
3 Playoff apearances
3 losing seasons
2 division crowns
2 NFC Championship game appearances
1 SB appearance (lost)

Cowher-
Reg season record- 71-41 (63%)
Playoff record- 5-6
6 playoff appearances
1 losing season
5 division crowns
3 AFC Championship games
1 SB appaerance (lost)

Cowher offers one more win a year, twice the playoff appearances, 1/3 of the losing seasons, 2.5 times more division crowns one more championship game appearance and just as many SB appearances.

I’ll take the latter.

But as they say, “It is what it is” and sometimes you “pick a bad day to have a bad day”. :huh:

Also, of the 15 QB’s listed above 12 come from BCS schools. Not sure what your point is.[/QUOTE]

Cowher has 2 SB appearances 1 win and 1 loss

As for QBs and Superbowls - outside of Dilfer and Brad Johnson in the last 15 years what non-franchise QB has won a SB? Having a franchise QB goes a LONG way to winning superbowls - doesn’t guarantee it - but sure makes it easier.

The defense has looked abysmal since Del Rio left. I hate the defensive strategy of only rushing 4 guys. considering our secondary just gives up the easy catch. I’ve never seen a coach so stubborn as John Fox even when things aren’t working.

I've never seen a coach so stubborn as John Fox even when things aren't working.

Oh, apparently you’ve never been to a Niners game. :lmao:

[QUOTE=Ninercentral;432835]Oh, apparently you’ve never been to a Niners game. :lmao:[/QUOTE]

I chortled.

[QUOTE=eason49;432826]The defense has looked abysmal since Del Rio left. I hate the defensive strategy of only rushing 4 guys. considering our secondary just gives up the easy catch. I’ve never seen a coach so stubborn as John Fox even when things aren’t working.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the only rushing 4 guys…that’s why I couldn’t stand Trgovac. But we blitzed Ryan a good bit last Sunday bringing a lot of guys, and we just could not get to him…I believe Peppers ran him to the sidelines and forced a throw away once…that was the only time I remember pressure being a problem…even though at times we were sending more guys. We blitzed plenty Sunday and when we relied on only 4 for the pass rush it didn’t work much. We couldn’t get pressure and he would let go of it quick enough to avoid anything…same when we blitzed more people.

Some QBs are just better against the blitz when you can get rid of it quickly and accurately…and we just could NOT get to him no matter how many guys we sent. It was a combo of him getting rid of it too quickly and us not getting there quick enough…either way I think Sunday was a lack of execution…not a problem with when/how we blitzed. Philly, however…I wish they would have blitzed more. Either way, the defense played well enough to win. I’m not sure they did that Sunday, even though they did produce two turnovers and we basically lost on the DeAngelo fumble that was converted into a TD…

[QUOTE=Mullins Maniac;432818]Fox has been in Carolina 7 years (this is his eighth). So let’s compare Fox’s first seven to Cowher’s first seven.

Fox-
Reg season record- 63-49 (54.4%)
Playoff record- 5-3
3 Playoff apearances
3 losing seasons
2 division crowns
2 NFC Championship game appearances
1 SB appearance (lost)

Cowher-
Reg season record- 71-41 (63%)
Playoff record- 5-6
6 playoff appearances
1 losing season
5 division crowns
3 AFC Championship games
1 SB appaerance (lost)

Cowher offers one more win a year, twice the playoff appearances, 1/3 of the losing seasons, 2.5 times more division crowns one more championship game appearance and just as many SB appearances.

I’ll take the latter.

But as they say, “It is what it is” and sometimes you “pick a bad day to have a bad day”. :huh:

Also, of the 15 QB’s listed above 12 come from BCS schools. Not sure what your point is.[/QUOTE]

My point about all those QBs is, most of them weren’t at Elite programs. s9er suggested that Bradford could be a draft pick. Sanchez might buck the trend as well, but so far Stafford has been underwhelming as well. Just because a QB does well at an elite program, doesn’t mean they will do well in the NFL. Good QBs are good QBs, but it is easy to look good in the right system. Bradford looked fantastic last year, but he also had an NFL O-line.

And yes, Bill has a slightly better record over that time, but it’s not like he’s bill belichek. They both have the same number of losses in the game that matters and neither one has been there more than the other. You could also argue that the NFC South is much more difficult than what Cowher was up against also.

[QUOTE=NinerWupAss;432823]Cowher has 2 SB appearances 1 win and 1 loss

As for QBs and Superbowls - outside of Dilfer and Brad Johnson in the last 15 years what non-franchise QB has won a SB? Having a franchise QB goes a LONG way to winning superbowls - doesn’t guarantee it - but sure makes it easier.[/QUOTE]

He was comparing them by the starts of their careers.

[QUOTE=Powerbait;432844]He was comparing them by the starts of their careers.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh teaches me not to read the whole thread!

I agree with the only rushing 4 guys..that's why I couldn't stand Trgovac. But we blitzed Ryan a good bit last Sunday bringing a lot of guys, and we just could not get to him...I believe Peppers ran him to the sidelines and forced a throw away once..that was the only time I remember pressure being a problem..even though at times we were sending more guys. We blitzed plenty Sunday and when we relied on only 4 for the pass rush it didn't work much. We couldn't get pressure and he would let go of it quick enough to avoid anything..same when we blitzed more people.

Some QBs are just better against the blitz when you can get rid of it quickly and accurately…and we just could NOT get to him no matter how many guys we sent. It was a combo of him getting rid of it too quickly and us not getting there quick enough…either way I think Sunday was a lack of execution…not a problem with when/how we blitzed. Philly, however…I wish they would have blitzed more. Either way, the defense played well enough to win. I’m not sure they did that Sunday, even though they did produce two turnovers and we basically lost on the DeAngelo fumble that was converted into a TD…

When we blitz, we put our DBs 30 yards off the receivers. You could have put someone in the stands back there at QB and he could probably hit the receivers with as much cushion as our DBs were giving them. No point in blitzing if you’re going to make it so easy to pass.

Why is Chris Gamble playing off the WR when they’re at the goal line? That TD to White was ridiculous. He gave up the slant like it was nothing. Heck, why are our DBs playing 10 yards behind the 1st down marker on 3rd and 12? What is the point of letting them catch it and then tackle them if they already have the first down? Our secondary is unbelievably soft. They were like that under Trgovac too. I have to assume it’s at least somewhat the head coach when things remain the same.

I disagree that the defense played well enough to win. They let a 3rd string RB/FB have a career day, let Matt Ryan throw more TDs in one game than he has ever done, and gave up 28 points. Our offense is not going to consistently score 35 points; at least as long as John Fox’s offensive game plan is in place.

When we blitz, we put our DBs 30 yards off the receivers. You could have put someone in the stands back there at QB and he could probably hit the receivers with as much cushion as our DBs were giving them. No point in blitzing if you're going to make it so easy to pass.

Why is Chris Gamble playing off the WR when they’re at the goal line? That TD to White was ridiculous. He gave up the slant like it was nothing. Heck, why are our DBs playing 10 yards behind the 1st down marker on 3rd and 12? What is the point of letting them catch it and then tackle them if they already have the first down? Our secondary is unbelievably soft. They were like that under Trgovac too. I have to assume it’s at least somewhat the head coach when things remain the same.

I disagree that the defense played well enough to win. They let a 3rd string RB/FB have a career day, let Matt Ryan throw more TDs in one game than he has ever done, and gave up 28 points. Our offense is not going to consistently score 35 points; at least as long as John Fox’s offensive game plan is in place.

Yes, exaccccctly…I thought I was the only who wondered this!!!

[QUOTE=eason49;432849]When we blitz, we put our DBs 30 yards off the receivers. You could have put someone in the stands back there at QB and he could probably hit the receivers with as much cushion as our DBs were giving them. No point in blitzing if you’re going to make it so easy to pass.

Why is Chris Gamble playing off the WR when they’re at the goal line? That TD to White was ridiculous. He gave up the slant like it was nothing. Heck, why are our DBs playing 10 yards behind the 1st down marker on 3rd and 12? What is the point of letting them catch it and then tackle them if they already have the first down? Our secondary is unbelievably soft. They were like that under Trgovac too. I have to assume it’s at least somewhat the head coach when things remain the same.

I disagree that the defense played well enough to win. They let a 3rd string RB/FB have a career day, let Matt Ryan throw more TDs in one game than he has ever done, and gave up 28 points. Our offense is not going to consistently score 35 points; at least as long as John Fox’s offensive game plan is in place.[/QUOTE]

I mean I agree and this is what I hated about Trgovac because he did this but literally NEVER blitzed. The point is, it’s the scheme. It’s a zone and when you’re blitzing the logic is that it’s better to give a cushion than to play 1 on 1 cause if you’re blitzing extra players someone might be wide open. If you’re playing zone and blitzing, if the pass is inaccurate, which under pressure it should be, you’re betting on the QB passing it right to a defender. When it’s executed correctly, it works. In order for it to work, you have to switch things up as well, which is why we can’t always bump the receivers and sometimes have to give them bigger cushions to disguise coverages and not pretty much tell them what’s going to happen every play.

As far as the play to Roddy White…Gamble’s job there is to make a break on the ball or a play on the ball as it gets to the receiver. He was in a perfect position to do so other than the fact that the throw was in the perfect spot and White used himself to shield Gamble from getting to the ball. A situation where more pressure would have helped…but we never got to the QB quick enough, save for one, maybe two plays.

The scheme is frustrating at times because it gives up yardage and plays that seemingly should be easy to stop…but that’s better than the alternative of giving up the big play (within the logic of the scheme) and it produces turnovers. The defense produced two turnovers and they were unable to capitalize on offense. Had they capitalized, especially on the INT at midfield…different game. Plus one of the TDs the defense gave up was when William’s fumble put them right back on the field with their backs against the wall. Another TD. Ideally we could have held them to a FG one of the two other times early on in the game, but that fumble killed us, considering they turned it into a TD and we couldn’t punish their defense when we did the same…twice. So, the defense gave up some TD but realistically gave the team a chance to win the game.

Same with the Philly game…the defense gave up yardage but also gave our offense the ball and in return our offense put them back on the field over and over again with little to no rest. If executed well, the scheme works plenty and it won the Colts a Super Bowl…and no, it doesn’t take the best QB in the game for your offense to execute off turnovers and avoid committing them.

I disagree with this but he is definitely on the hot seat this year. [B]I know everyone wants to see Cowher[/B] but what kind of money would he want?

I wasn’t aware of this? What do you mean by everyone? Everyone remembers Cowher for the Super Bowl he won but what about all the years when the Steelers dissapointingly lost as number one seeds or when they didn’t even make the playoffs with him as coach?

With the RBs we have I’d rather us get Shanahan if Fox ever gets the boot.

I wasn't aware of this? What do you mean by everyone? Everyone remembers Cowher for the Super Bowl he won but what about all the years when the Steelers dissapointingly lost as number one seeds or when they didn't even make the playoffs with him as coach?

With the RBs we have I’d rather us get Shanahan if Fox ever gets the boot.

I completely agree with you on that. Shanahan loves running backs and we have two great ones, and another one that’s up and coming. He would definitely run the ball at least 30 times a game.

[QUOTE=Powerbait;432797]I understand frustration with Fox, but he’s a guy that can win a Super Bowl. You don’t get rid of that. Who are you going to bring in Cowher? How long was he at Pittsburgh before he won a title? Compare his career to Fox, not that different. Panthers have a tough schedule, I get it. They are going to lose some games this year, and the poor start doesn’t help.

Sam Bradford was a product of an outstanding 0-Line, I’m not sure he’s going to set the world on fire. Who was the last really jetsetting college QB to come to the NFL and succeed? Peyton Manning?

Rothelisberger - Miami, OH
Brady - Michigan (6th round pick, right?)
Flacco - Deleware
Brees - Purdue
Ryan - BC
E Manning - Ole Miss
P Manning - Tennesssee
Collins - Penn State
Pennington - Marshall
Palmer - USC
Rodgers - Cal
Cutler - Vandy
Orton - Purdue
Russell - LSU
Hill - Maryland

[/QUOTE]

But all of these guys were drafted. Fox/Hurney doesn’t draft QB’s and he would never draft one in the first round. That’s why he would pass on guys like Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez who are coming in and immediately helping teams.

I wasn't aware of this? What do you mean by everyone? [B]Everyone remembers Cowher for the Super Bowl he won but what about all the years when the Steelers dissapointingly lost as number one seeds or when they didn't even make the playoffs with him as coach? [/B]

With the RBs we have I’d rather us get Shanahan if Fox ever gets the boot.

Cowher had 10 playoff appearances in 15 years. Of those 10 appearances 6 times he made it to the AFC Championship game and/or the Super Bowl.

Your right, they should keep Fox. Cowher sucks.:huh:

I understand frustration with Fox, but he's a guy that can win a Super Bowl.

Yeah, some of their WR choices haven’t panned out, but they did draft Steve Smith.

Smith was a rookie in 2001. Fox didn’t start until 2002. He had nothing to do with drafting Smith.

And yes, Bill has a slightly better record over that time, but it's not like he's bill belichek.

Lets look at Belichick’s first 7 for comparison:

Belichick
Reg season record- 52-60(46.4%)
Playoff record- 4-1
2 Playoff apearances
5 losing seasons
1 division crowns
1 NFC Championship game appearance
1 SB appearance (win)

[QUOTE=morningwood;432926]Smith was a rookie in 2001. Fox didn’t start until 2002. He had nothing to do with drafting Smith.[/QUOTE]

Yup Smith is the one of the few things Seifert did right.

Yup Smith is the one of the few things Seifert did right.

yeah, that draft class also included D. Morgan and K. Jenkins