Lutz Stats

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
21
Whit, Are you going to ask for Gary Williams' head this year after he goes 18-12 which he has no chance to do?

I’d like to know who all of you think is going to come to Charlotte anyway. If someone goes 24-6 he’ll be gone the next year.

Gary Williams won a NCAA title in 2002, that buys you a few mulligans

And the attitude of “who is willing to coach us” is the most pisspoor attitude imaginable!! There are plenty excellent coaches that would die to coach here. They might be young Pelfreys or Wojo, but they are out there. 400k per year is not chumpchange when you are making 125k as an assistant. And the logic of “if they go 24-6 they’ll just leave anyway” is ridiculous! That would be a GREAT problem to have.

22
Comparing Lutz to Majerus isn't a valid comparison. We've never had a Keith Van Horn at Charlotte and Majerus is a tremendous coach. Lutz is good, he's not tremendous.

Gregg Marshal? We’re back here again? Lutz has coached in twice the league Marshal ever did and played, and beat, far tougher opponents.

Mike Anderson - Fair comparison IMO and Anderson is a better coach IMO.

Bottom line, there are facts and then there are statistics. Does Lutz deserve an extension, I think he does. Should he get it? I’m firmly on the fence at this point with that one.

MK, I wasn’t really trying to open the Marshal can of worms again, he’s long gone. I was just thinking of coaches relevant to Charlotte and who had left for other jobs lately.

Where I disagree with you is on the “level of competition” statement. Yes absolutely Marshal played easier teams in the Big South than Lutz has, but they were Wintrhop and it was an equal playing field (apples to apples). He took over a doormat Big South team in the 300 rpi range, and turned it completely around. It doesn’t matter what conference you’re in, if you dominate it, then you have managed it better than the rest of your peers/league with equal resources. That to me is the sign of a great coach.

23

[QUOTE=metro;281397]Gary Williams won a NCAA title in 2002, that buys you a few mulligans[/QUOTE]

Hell, I’d be willing to even give Lutz a mulligan if I could remember the last time he won ONE NCAA game.

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Hell, I'd be willing to even give Lutz a mulligan if I could remember the last time he won [B]ONE[/B] NCAA game.

was it Tenn w/ Rodney?

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Where I disagree with you is on the "level of competition" statement. Yes absolutely Marshal played easier teams in the Big South than Lutz has, but they were Wintrhop and it was an equal playing field (apples to apples). He took over a doormat Big South team in the 300 rpi range, and turned it completely around. It doesn't matter what conference you're in, if you dominate it, then you have managed it better than the rest of your peers/league with equal resources. That to me is the sign of a great coach.

He was a great coach in the Big South. He had to dominate the likes of UNCA, VMI and Coastal Carolina.

Lutz took over a Charlotte squad with half the resources, have the recognition, half the tradition of many of the teams he had to compete with and stood toe to toe, and beat on many occassions the likes of Cincy, Memphis, Marquette and Louisville. He won 3 conference USA titles and just 3 years ago took this team to number 14 (might have been 17) in the country. Marshal’s accomplishments in the Big South don’t touch that.

Your assertion that his on the court accomplishments have been exagerated could easily be applied to Marshal since his success came in a one bid league against inferior competition. Lutz has had 3 bad seasons here at Charlotte, 2 in a row over the last 2 years. That goes a long way towards skewing any stats.

There are facts and then there are statistics. It’s a shame that two down years have resulted in some effort at revisionist history that maybe Lutz wasn’t that good to begin with.

26

[QUOTE=metro;281403]was it Tenn w/ Rodney?[/QUOTE]

per wikipedia – it was.

March, 2001 – since we last won an NCAA game — nothing else to say other than ------------ that sucks.

we are staring at ONE post season (Ga State NIT game – the game that this board and 10-12 others watched in person) win over a 7 year period.

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He was a great coach [B]in the Big South[/B]. He had to dominate the likes of UNCA, VMI and Coastal Carolina.

Lutz took over a Charlotte squad with half the resources, have the recognition, half the tradition of many of the teams he had to compete with and stood toe to toe, and beat on many occassions the likes of Cincy, Memphis, Marquette and Louisville. He won 3 conference USA titles and just 3 years ago took this team to number 14 (might have been 17) in the country. Marshal’s accomplishments in the Big South don’t touch that.

Your assertion that his on the court accomplishments have been exagerated could easily be applied to Marshal since his success came in a one bid league against inferior competition. Lutz has had 3 bad seasons here at Charlotte, 2 in a row over the last 2 years. That goes a long way towards skewing any stats.

There are facts and then there are statistics. It’s a shame that two down years have resulted in some effort at revisionist history that maybe Lutz wasn’t that good to begin with.

Well we can agree to disagree. I think the sign of a good coach is one that dominates his (apples to apples) competition. Yes it was against the VMIs and HPs of the world, but everything is relevant. Winthrop was Winthrop, and he turned it into a team that was advancing in the NCAA. Marshal still had to work with his own Big South program, building, recruits, and budget and he dominated his peers.

1998–1999 Winthrop 21-8 9-1 1st NCAA 1st Round

1999–2000 Winthrop 21-9 11-3 2nd NCAA 1st Round

2000–2001 Winthrop 18-13 11-3 2nd NCAA Opening Round

2001–2002 Winthrop 19-12 10-4 T-1st NCAA 1st Round

2002–2003 Winthrop 20-10 11-3 1st

2003–2004 Winthrop 16-12 10-6 T-3rd

2004–2005 Winthrop 27-6 15-1 1st NCAA 1st Round

2005–2006 Winthrop 23-8 13-3 1st NCAA 1st Round

2006–2007 Winthrop 29-5 14-0 1st NCAA 2nd Round

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[QUOTE=MKNiner;281405]He was a great coach in the Big South. He had to dominate the likes of UNCA, VMI and Coastal Carolina.[/QUOTE]

When Charlotte went to the A10, at that time, I thought “Lutz in the A10” was similar to “Marshall in the Big South”.

Now that I’ve had a couple of years of facts to base my observations---- I can tell that my assumption was dead dog wrong.

29
Well we can agree to disagree. I think the sign of a good coach is one that dominates his (apples to apples) competition. Yes it was against the VMIs and HPs of the world, but everything is relevant. Winthrop was Winthrop, and he turned it into a team that was advancing in the NCAA. Marshal still had to work with his own Big South program, building, recruits, and budget and he dominated his peers.

And all that greatness got him the job at Wichita St.

Lutz had some peers in his conference, the rest were his superiors in funding, name recognition, facilities and recruits. And against them he won 3 conference championships and had a winning conference record every year save 1.

Those are all pretty stats you posted metro, they were still in the Big South.

Bottom line is you want Lutz gone, nothing wrong with that. But trying to cheapen what he’s accomplished here as part of your campaign against him is lame in my opinion. You don’t have to rewrite what he’s done for this school. One it’s intellectually dishonest, and second it’s just plain ridiculous.

30
And all that greatness got him the job at Wichita St.

Lutz had some peers in his conference, the rest were his superiors in funding, name recognition, facilities and recruits. And against them he won 3 conference championships and had a winning conference record every year save 1.

Those are all pretty stats you posted metro, they were still in the Big South.

Bottom line is you want Lutz gone, nothing wrong with that. But trying to cheapen what he’s accomplished here as part of your campaign against him is lame in my opinion. You don’t have to rewrite what he’s done for this school. One it’s intellectually dishonest, and second it’s just plain ridiculous.

I didn’t realize I cheapened Lutz on anything. I thought I was pretty diplomatic in the first post, in fact if you go back and look, I said is he “getting enough credit?” In regards to wanting Lutz gone, I am not 100% there (more like 85%). I am all for seeing how the year finishes. If he can show improvement (more drastic) by the end of the year, I could swallow an extension.

I think you’re letting your hate of Marshall intervene too much.

Heck, even Don Shula had to be run out of town.

31
I think you're letting your hate of Marshall intervene too much.

That’s the thing metro, I don’t hate Marshall, never have. I think he’s a solid coach. If we’d lost Lutz at some point I’d have enjoyed having him here as coach. But it wasn’t life and death to me.

What I’m not is a Marshall disciple like you and others. I don’t think he’s the greatest coach since Dean Smith or Coach K. I keep his accomplishments in perpespective. As a result I don’t look to make him more than he is.

32

oh and MK,
you referred to Van Horn… that Lutz never had a player like him and its unfair to compare Majerus for that reason. Well, wasn’t it Majerus’ job to recruit, sign, and develope his player? Utah was pretty much a lesser program than Charlotte before Majerus got there. I guess you are inferring that Majerus got lucky there.

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I want metro to coach the team. We’d be the worst team in the country, but I’d prefer that over reading his posts.

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I want metro to coach the team. We'd be the worst team in the country, but I'd prefer that over reading his posts.

thats sound logic… fans/supporters can’t question or criticize whats going on unless they are qualified to coach at that level :wacko:. I am guessing you’ve never questioned or criticized Panthers, Bobcats, and Hurricanes coaches. Go home to mommy kid.

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oh and MK, you referred to Van Horn.... that Lutz never had a player like him and its unfair to compare Majerus for that reason. Well, wasn't it Majerus' job to recruit, sign, and develope his player? Utah was pretty much a lesser program than Charlotte before Majerus got there. I guess you are inferring that Majerus got lucky there.

Exactly. Cause that’s what it means to be a tremendous coach.:rolleyes:

Comparing Lutz to Majerus isn't a valid comparison. We've never had a Keith Van Horn at Charlotte [b]and[/b] Majerus is a tremendous coach.

C for effort though.

36

[QUOTE=MKNiner;281405]He was a great coach in the Big South.

Greg Marshall had to dominate the likes of UNCA, VMI and Coastal Carolina.[/QUOTE]

AND WE CAN"T COMPETE WITH MONMOUTH.

Greg Marshall was recognized for getting more from a mid-major program than most have done. And, he was rewarded with a big contract at a bigger school

Lutz is getting little from a better program and better players. His game coaching is suspect. He is hell-bent on starting Gerrity when Harris runs a better offense and plays defense like a maniac.

If we had an offensive system other than shooting 3’s, we would have beaten Maryland yesterday.

37
thats sound logic....... fans/supporters can't question or criticize whats going on unless they are qualified to coach at that level :wacko:. I am guessing you've never questioned or criticized Panthers, Bobcats, and Hurricanes coaches. Go home to mommy kid.

Complaining on forums like it makes a difference also isn’t sound logic. Why don’t you call into Lutz Live and tell him what you think, or say anything you say to any of our players to their face? You can say that’s how sports goes all day, but as you said, NO, I don’t do it. Because I couldn’t do what they do, so I don’t criticize what I can’t even do. That’s hypocrisy, by definition. Call it sports, call it whatever. Just because a lot of people do it doesn’t mean it’s right, it means a lot of people are hypocrites. And you’re the king of their world. Spend all your damn time criticizing our coach and players because we’re not starting 5 all americans or #1 in the country.

You are a true joke of a fan and an example to every idiot in the sports world. I would love to personally buy you some Carolina merchandise to wear, but I don’t even think you could wear that with true pride without finding some **** to complain about. If you think this is what sports is all about, you’re doomed till the day you ****ing die. If we won 5 national championships in a row starting next year, it still wouldn’t be worth reading your sorry ass posts over the past two years.

You single handedly kill everything it means to be a fan of a team, and then use the fact that other people do exist that are as ridiculous as you are as defense. You’re a sad excuse. And don’t you ever question people younger than you as a fan, especially the way you talk. Ever heard money isn’t everything? Hell, if it was, I’d donate $10,000 dollars more a year than you just so you’d shut the hell up. I know countless fans, most on this board, that have probably donated nothing compared to you. But you fail in any degree to match them as a fan. Age and money become non-factors when it all boils down to the fact that you’re an idiot and you know nothing about what being a fan is.

Go ahead, bash me. I absolutely could not careless, hence the fact that I’m posting the words that I’ve heard from just about anyone who’s ever visited this board. You’re a joke. You make me almost ashamed to be a Charlotte fan. However, that doesn’t stop me from being at every Charlotte sporting event in existence, because I’m a true fan and I love our basketball team and every other team we’ve got. You’ve made it into something completely different…something not fun. If you can’t support a team after a loss, or a person after making mistakes, then god have mercy on your children and your family. You are not a true fan. The money may say differently, but that doesn’t change anything. And neither does me being younger than you.

Every diehard Niners fan I know has made some comment about how stupid that dude is that just won’t shut the hell up criticizing everything about our program. So follow another one, or have the balls to say it somewhere that matters. I just wonder over and over again, the image in my head is of Metro shaking hands with one of our players or Lutz, and then coming here and criticizing and criticizing everything about a loss. Doesn’t everyone love someone you meet face to face and shake hands with that afterwards is criticizing everything about you? Sports or not, you’re a hypocrite, and a douchebag. “Go cry to mommy.” I’m an adult. You’re a joke.

38
Complaining on forums like it makes a difference also isn't sound logic. Why don't you call into Lutz Live and tell him what you think, or say anything you say to any of our players to their face? You can say that's how sports goes all day, but as you said, NO, I don't do it. Because I couldn't do what they do, so I don't criticize what I can't even do. That's hypocrisy, by definition. Call it sports, call it whatever. Just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's right, it means a lot of people are hypocrites. And you're the king of their world. Spend all your damn time criticizing our coach and players because we're not starting 5 all americans or #1 in the country.

You are a true joke of a fan and an example to every idiot in the sports world. I would love to personally buy you some Carolina merchandise to wear, but I don’t even think you could wear that with true pride without finding some **** to complain about. If you think this is what sports is all about, you’re doomed till the day you ****ing die. If we won 5 national championships in a row starting next year, it still wouldn’t be worth reading your sorry ass posts over the past two years.

You single handedly kill everything it means to be a fan of a team, and then use the fact that other people do exist that are as ridiculous as you are as defense. You’re a sad excuse. And don’t you ever question people younger than you as a fan, especially the way you talk. Ever heard money isn’t everything? Hell, if it was, I’d donate $10,000 dollars more a year than you just so you’d shut the hell up. I know countless fans, most on this board, that have probably donated nothing compared to you. But you fail in any degree to match them as a fan. Age and money become non-factors when it all boils down to the fact that you’re an idiot and you know nothing about what being a fan is.

Go ahead, bash me. I absolutely could not careless, hence the fact that I’m posting the words that I’ve heard from just about anyone who’s ever visited this board. You’re a joke. You make me almost ashamed to be a Charlotte fan. However, that doesn’t stop me from being at every Charlotte sporting event in existence, because I’m a true fan and I love our basketball team and every other team we’ve got. You’ve made it into something completely different…something not fun. If you can’t support a team after a loss, or a person after making mistakes, then god have mercy on your children and your family. You are not a true fan. The money may say differently, but that doesn’t change anything. And neither does me being younger than you.

Every diehard Niners fan I know has made some comment about how stupid that dude is that just won’t shut the hell up criticizing everything about our program. So follow another one, or have the balls to say it somewhere that matters. I just wonder over and over again, the image in my head is of Metro shaking hands with one of our players or Lutz, and then coming here and criticizing and criticizing everything about a loss. Doesn’t everyone love someone you meet face to face and shake hands with that afterwards is criticizing everything about you? Sports or not, you’re a hypocrite, and a douchebag. “Go cry to mommy.” I’m an adult. You’re a joke.

feel better? that was alot

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nope. when your constant bickering is constantly affecting other team’s fan’s perspectives of our program, recruits perspectives of our program, and PLAYERS perspectives of themselves, that does not make me feel any better. you’re such a whiny douche that it’s actually, literally, factually affecting our basketball program. perception and all. if i was a recruit and saw the stuff you said about our players, it would affect my decision. if i was a player, it would affect my confidence. if i was a fan of another team, i would bust out laughing and have that opinion towards the program. you think it’s some joke. you’d be surprised. very surprised. not that you care at all…it’s obvious you don’t. that, unfortunately, doesn’t make it untrue.

40

metro,

Leave the men’s basketball program and Bobby Lutz alone! All you want is more, more more more MORE!