MSNBC: NCAA bans Indian mascots
But they’re only banned in POSTSEASON tournaments… does anyone else besides me think this decision is 1) stupid and/or 2) pointless?
Yes.
Yes. Ban Pirates, Raiders, Spartans, Trojans, Warriors and any other “fighting” types then too, even the Bears, Lions and Tigers.
Another CANNONBALL move by the NCAA staff. Vote in the MSBNC poll, currently 85% opposed.
Go UNC Pembroke!
I wonder if that includes football bowl games. They aren’t officially post season I don’t think, so I guess it depends on the wording of the rule.
Wow. :wacko:
It sounds like they did give it consideration. I don’t think its that bad of a rule. I don’t think most of the Indian names were that offensive, but they were demeaning. What if NC Central’s mascot was the “Cracker’s”. It’s really the same thing for a caucasian dominated school to use “Redskins”.
I realize that tradition is important, but the Seminole Chief at FSU is outrageously depicting a group of people that are still around and still living. I like how they took special consideration for UNC-Pembroke.
This won’t harm anyone. Plus, Felons is a better mascot for Florida St. anyway than Seminoles.
If their mascot was the Crackers, I’d laugh and a lot of you would too.
[i]Originally posted by NinerLoudNProud[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 03:36 PM [b] If their mascot was the Crackers, I'd laugh and a lot of you would too. [/b]I would laugh as well (i'm caucasian), but the whole idea that they would be crackers is just kind of messed up from a sportsmanship standpoint.
I think the NCAA should ban the real common names like eagles, tigers, trojans too.
[i]Originally posted by lutz9er[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 02:34 PM [b] This won't harm anyone. Plus, Felons is a better mascot for Florida St. anyway than Seminoles. [/b]I prefer "Criminoles."
[i]Originally posted by HP49er[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 04:00 PM [b] Yes. Ban Pirates, Raiders, Spartans, Trojans, Warriors and any other "fighting" types then too, even the Bears, Lions and Tigers.Another CANNONBALL move by the NCAA staff. Vote in the MSBNC poll, currently 85% opposed.
Go UNC Pembroke! [/b]
Nice use of the word “Cannonball”. It is a synonym for all things ridiculous.
[i]Originally posted by lutz9er[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 04:23 PM [b] I wonder if that includes football bowl games. They aren't officially post season I don't think, so I guess it depends on the wording of the rule. [/b]I don't think it will matter to the BCS since the NCAA isn't part of it. Not sure about the million other bowls.
If UNCP gets a D2 Tourney invite, & they come out w/ a mascot in defiance of the NCAA, will the ref. start the game off w/ a Technical Foul on UNCP?
I don’t understand why Seminoles is demeaning. Do people of Nordic descent complain that the Minnesota Vikings makes them look like savages? If the Nords can deal w/ it, so can everyone else. If you ask me, I say it’s an honor.
Signed the head cracker.
[i]Originally posted by stonecoldken[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 06:05 PM [b] If UNCP gets a D2 Tourney invite, & they come out w/ a mascot in defiance of the NCAA, will the ref. start the game off w/ a Technical Foul on UNCP? I don't understand why Seminoles is demeaning. Do people of Nordic descent complain that the Minnesota Vikings makes them look like savages? If the Nords can deal w/ it, so can everyone else. If you ask me, I say it's an honor. Signed the head cracker. [/b]Exactly. No one's b$$ching about Notre Dame changing their nickname. Why is that? Can't have it one way, has to be equal.
Considering the Seminole tribe ENDORSES the FSU mascot usage, I think it’s a pretty ridiculous.
Don’t you mean “pretty cannonball”
[i]Originally posted by UNCCTF+Aug 5 2005, 03:54 PM-->
[b]QUOTE[/b] (UNCCTF @ Aug 5 2005, 03:54 PM)
Evidence that the NCAA is run by a bunch of IDIOTS!
[i]Originally posted by lutz9er[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 03:34 PM [b] It sounds like they did give it consideration. I don't think its that bad of a rule. I don't think most of the Indian names were that offensive, but they were demeaning. What if NC Central's mascot was the "Cracker's". It's really the same thing for a caucasian dominated school to use "Redskins".I realize that tradition is important, but the Seminole Chief at FSU is outrageously depicting a group of people that are still around and still living. I like how they took special consideration for UNC-Pembroke.
This won’t harm anyone. Plus, Felons is a better mascot for Florida St. anyway than Seminoles. [/b]
The rule is hypocritical, at best. Fighting Irish, Trojans, Spartans, Hilltoppers, Sooners, Vikings, Cornhuskers, Vandals, Colonials, Minutemen, Buccaneers, Pirates, Volunteers, Boilermakers, Flying Dutchmen, Titans, Lumberjacks, Cavaliers, Mountaineers, Quakers, Highlanders, Hoosiers, Tar Heels, Gentlemen, and yes, 49ers, are all nicknames that are nicknames of their respective schools for one of the following reasons: a) the nickname has a regional conotation or reference b ) the nickname surmises the spirit of the school or athletic teams in reference to the group it’s named after. All of the Indian names given to 99% of the schools were derived/given for the same exact reason. They weren’t given to make fun of or oppress any Indians. The only one I have an exception with is Redskin. It’s the same as Honkie or the n-word for white and black people. Miami-Ohio was right to change it.
Pembroke derived their nickname the same way 99% of the other Indian-nicknamed schools did. Just because they have more “Indian heritage” doesn’t justify it being right for them and wrong for everyone else.
If this is the route the NCAA chooses, all schools should be forced to choose a plant or non-animate nickname. They’ve crossed the line this time and I hope somebody kicks their @$$ in court.
It may seem ridiculous, but it isn’t. There has to be a reason that certain groups get offended by indian names and other groups don’t get offended by the names listed in the other post(ex. tarholes, fighting irish). I don’t think it is because Native American groups are more anal about stuff. I think it is because there is something genuinely offensive about these names.
These names were first used for these sports teams way back when many minority groups in this country were second-class citizens for all intents and purposes.
I don’t think it hurts anything to be a little sensitive to Native american groups about stuff like this. Obviously some people are really offended by it. afterall, these are sports teams that are using people’s ethnic identity for a game.
I feel that its more important to protect people’s feelings about their own race, ancestry, and identity then it is to protect people’s feelings about their favorite basketball team. I think sports fans will get over it.
(By the way, I think the Gen. assembly should change our state nickname from the “Tarhole State” to the “Niner State”, but not for the previously specified reasons. B) )
[i]Originally posted by lutz9er[/i]@Aug 5 2005, 11:25 PM [b] It may seem ridiculous, but it isn't. There has to be a reason that certain groups get offended by indian names and other groups don't get offended by the names listed in the other post(ex. tarholes, fighting irish). I don't think it is because Native American groups are more anal about stuff. I think it is because there is something genuinely offensive about these names.These names were first used for these sports teams way back when many minority groups in this country were second-class citizens for all intents and purposes.
I don’t think it hurts anything to be a little sensitive to Native american groups about stuff like this. Obviously some people are really offended by it. afterall, these are sports teams that are using people’s ethnic identity for a game.
I feel that its more important to protect people’s feelings about their own race, ancestry, and identity then it is to protect people’s feelings about their favorite basketball team. I think sports fans will get over it.
(By the way, I think the Gen. assembly should change our state nickname from the “Tarhole State” to the “Niner State”, but not for the previously specified reasons. B) ) [/b]
Being sensitive is one thing, but banning schools with Indian nicknames from postseason play is way over the top. Just because some people still choose to be offended by it does not justify the kneejerk reaction the NCAA suddenly has. Just as the Lumbees have spoke out against changing UNC-Pembroke’s nickname, much of the Seminole tribe has done the same in Florida. The nicknames may have been given when Indians were treated as you say, but again, the nicknames were given so in honor of Indians instead of in humiliation of them. Why would you nickname your school or professional sports team for any other reason? They aren’t intramural teams, and have not been nicknamed to poke fun at anyone.