:lol: :lol: :lol:
I agree some things seriously need to be looked at. In fact your stance on native americans is very commendable… of all the groups in the country that have justification to stand up and say something it is them. Somehow though they have neither the leadership nor the political backing to do so. I guess it’s that squeky wheel gets the oil thing. The african american community has pushed and pushed and have received alot… the native americans though have more justification and get nothing. If the african american community ever succeeds with reparations (which I totally disagree with) then the native americans should receive double (which i might be tempted to agree with).
I did not mean to sound insensative at all. I probably over reacted as well. I have gotten pretty tired of going to diversity workshops and discovering that as a white male I am apparenly to blame for everything and I am supposed to go around apologizing to every group for things that I had no control over.
I do feel some names should replaced… the fact that Clev is still the Indians with Chief Wahoo is pretty amazing to me, but something like Warrior? Seems fairly pity to force a change there.
“Tarheel” from my understanding came from a battle during the Civil War. The southern troops we losing and while other divisions fell back the north carolina brigade stood their ground and fought. After the battle a Union General mentioned that the “Carolina boys fought like they had tar on their heels”. Never found out if that was true or a wives tale.
I agree that the native americans have a lot to gripe about…and I understand that a lot of people get upset with diversity training and the perceptions that other ethnic groups have towards white america. I, myself, am a white male…and had a hard time coming to grips with this idea of “white privilage”. But like it or not…it is certainly a real thing. Institutional racism is a real thing.
Nobody wants you to apoligize for something you have no control over…simply recognize it as a possibility. 
[i]Originally posted by casstommy[/i]@Sep 28 2005, 05:18 PM [b] The NCAA is a joke..there is no doubt about. FSU has an agreement with the tribe and that should be allowed. But I certainly understand the position of the NCAA and I almost commend them on their stance.The general acceptance a selected sterotypes in this country absolutly sickens me. We admonish some and turn our cheeks to others, and the way native americans are portrayed is very disturbing to me. I over-reacted to your post and I’m sorry…it just really pisses me off how people just don’t care about this and just pass it off as just some liberal bleeding heart bs [/b]
Speaking of liberal bleading heart BS!!!
Let’s try bleeding, There much better.
Thanks for proving my point lake
And that point would be?
And that point would be?
The selected acceptance of stereotypes in this country…and how those who participate pass the likes of me off as some sort of bleeding heart liberal.
Explain the difference between the Fighting Sioux and the Fighting Irish.
[b]white privilage[/b]
Now I do have a HUGE problem with this. The problem with diversity is people stop learning about the person and start making assumptions based on what they see. Looking at me you may assume white privilage, but you have no idea where I came from. I may have been born in the mountains of WV with poor schools and a broken home, but yet you tell me I am privilaged. You may look at a young black male and assume he has had to suffer and fight more to achieve what he has when in reality his father may be a successful surgeon and business man. That in the end is my problem with diversity. I was MUCH more accepting and tolerant before I started attending diversity meetings.
I think the worse thing I may have ever seen was at a diversity conference a woman said she was able. The facilitator came over and asked about her hearing aid… she said yeah I have had this for years I don’t think about it. The facilitator then said well then you are not able… you are disabled. So you took a woman who thought of herself as abled… had overcome her obstacles. We then pointed out that she was actually disabled, but that there were things in place to help her. In reality if no one had said anything she would never have needed help or thought of herself as disabled.
I look at each person as an individual and ask them questions and learn about them before making any judgements and I would appreciate them doing the same with me.
My other problem is this notion that we “need” diversity in a company. What we need are the best people for the job… if they are all black females then so be it. I have sat here and watched one unqualified canidate after another be promoted based strictly on the need to be diverse. Perhaps we need to lobby for more “diversity” on the basketball team?
[b]Explain the difference between the Fighting Sioux and the Fighting Irish. [/b]
There is no difference. The Native Americans just have complained and lobbied. The Irish on the other hand have not. I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. It simply means that one group has stated they are offended and want it changed and the other says who cares. If an Irish group were to take exception with the name they would have just as much ground to argue on.
[i]Originally posted by 49er1[/i]@Sep 28 2005, 03:36 PM [b] I shudder as I say this, but Norm has, so far, been lovable to everyone...so far.... :wub: [/b]I think we could rotate Norm's race every now and then, or when he gets a girlfriend they could be something other than caucasian maybe.
[b]The NCAA is a joke..there is no doubt about. FSU has an agreement with the tribe and that should be allowed. But I certainly understand the position of the NCAA and I almost commend them on their stance. [/b]
They overturned in FSU’s favor I believe.
[b]My other problem is this notion that we "need" diversity in a company. What we need are the best people for the job.. if they are all black females then so be it. I have sat here and watched one unqualified canidate after another be promoted based strictly on the need to be diverse. Perhaps we need to lobby for more "diversity" on the basketball team?[/b]
You are probably a more saavy business person than I(Belk college is good), but I have heard directly from employers that they value diversity because it actually gives their business a market advantage (since they are more succesful when they look like the communities that they serve or something). So, in that case, picking someone based on diversity would actually be picking the best man for the job.
The same holds true for race factored college admissions. Part of it is affirmative action to give opportunites to different groups, but another part of it is picking the best learning environment, which educators always say is a diverse one.
[i]Originally posted by NinerAdvocate[/i]@Sep 28 2005, 04:24 PM [b] Why not have some fun with this?Let’s have some NC natives file suit objecting over the use of “Tar Heel” by a certain snobbish, erudite liberal arts school…
[/b]
The original nickname at crapple hole was…get this…the White Phantoms!! My theory is that this name was an homage to the KKK. Just a theory.
The white phantoms??? Man that is too good!!!
As for the concept of white privilage…I think that you are misunderstanding this concept. It does not refer to that fact that you come from a better background or bloodline. It does not mean that your family was rich because of the color of your skin. Yes, you could have come from the the mountains of west virginia and be “dirt poor”, but you still fall victim to white privilage.
White privilage refers to the fact that, two men of different races, with all other economic factors being equal, are not treated as such. It has been proven time and time again. African Americans, statistically, get higher interest rates on mortgages and cars; Pay higher premiums on insurance, get denied bank loans.
All of these happen all the while many, NOT ALL, white people will recieve lower rates or get approved for loans although they have the same economic background. This is white privilage. You should really read up on it…it is really interesting.
[b]African Americans, statistically, get higher interest rates on mortgages and cars; Pay higher premiums on insurance, get denied bank loans.[/b]
I can read up on it and I have, but I will point out that African Americans also make up a large section of the lower middle class and lower class. This is for many different reasons (partially the terrible welfare program that took off in the 60s). Market forces are in play here. We shouldn’t give anyone a cheaper loan because of the color of their skin. Statistically speaking there is a higher percentage of African Americans in prison… is this wrong? Do we need to adjust our punishments to reflect greater diversity in prison? No we don’t because statistically speaking they are guilty of commiting the crimes at a higher rate.
And Lutz you are right companies want to “look” more like certain communities… if you are going to be active in the Latino community then they want more latinos in the company. I understand that, but to sacrifice the well being of a department to strictly meet this goal is an awful idea. The ONLY time race and gender should come into play is when two canidates are totally EQUAL in all aspects. If you need a tie breaker, go to diversity.
I certainly see no white privelege if you give direction to give ANY race or group anything. If for instance because of diversity you decide to give african americans cheaper loans than whites (or how about english americans since my heritage is english) then you are just as guilty as you were before.
I am stating that when all economic factors are equal…blacks will receive higher rates or be denied for loans. There is no justification for this. ANd this is not a couple of isolated incidents either.
In terms of the prison system…this one REALLY gets me going. My favorite example of the institutionalized racism that persists in the judicial system is the one refering to the punishments for crack and coccaine possesion. Both are the exact same drug…only difference being crack is easier to process and therefore cheaper. However, crack, a drug that has mass proliferation among the black communities, carries a prison sentence almost double the amount of time than that of coccaine. ??? Explain the reasoning. I can not state that this is solely to lock up black america…but it does make you think. And to think that the leading cause of inprisonment among african americans is because of a drug related felonies???
[b]Explain the reasoning.[/b]
I don’t know… perhaps a heavier punishment is listed because it is a cheaper drug and there is a desire to make a greater deterrent.
[b]And to think that the leading cause of inprisonment among african americans is because of a drug related felonies????? [/b]
Not my problem… do the crime and you should suffer the punishment. That said I am well aware that the more $$$ you have the easier it is to get out of things. It is like the Huricane deal in NO. It wasn’t a black thing… it was a poor thing. Just so happens to be that alot of poor folks in the city are black, but that does not make it a black thing. Socio-economic dynamics trump gender/race dynamics IMO.
One last thing and I am done. You stated that you hate sterotypes… that this country gets upset with some and turns it’s cheek to the other, yet many stereo types are there for a reason. You can back many of them up with facts, just as you say you can back up your “white privelege” with facts. So is “white privelege” nothing more than the stero type of white america?
[i]Originally posted by casstommy[/i]@Sep 29 2005, 08:30 AM [b] In terms of the prison system....this one REALLY gets me going. My favorite example of the institutionalized racism that persists in the judicial system is the one refering to the punishments for crack and coccaine possesion. Both are the exact same drug.....only difference being crack is easier to process and therefore cheaper. However, crack, a drug that has mass proliferation among the black communities, carries a prison sentence almost double the amount of time than that of coccaine. ?????????????? Explain the reasoning. I can not state that this is solely to lock up black america....but it does make you think. And to think that the leading cause of inprisonment among african americans is because of a drug related felonies????? [/b]From this it seems that the easiest way to avoid racism would be to quit smoking crack. :ponder: :huh: