[QUOTE=4t9er;395940] There is a reason guys go the JUCO route. [/QUOTE]
Sometimes its grades.
If we cant get a quality Freshman at the position we need, I dont have a problem going out and getting a role playing JUCO and using that time and a schollie for next year to get a GOOD or GREAT 4yr player that we can throw our goods at.
We can get a JUCO now, and start recruiting a GOOD or GREAT Junior in HS now to sign next year.
[QUOTE=mineshaft;396025]Rodney White
Jobey Thomas hit 60+ 3 pointers his freshmen year
Diego Guevara had a great freshmen year
Eddie Basden played well his freshmen year with great defense.
Dalonte Hill (provided good minutes off the bench)
Pretty much every good 4 year player that I can think of, has had an impact during their freshmen year.[/QUOTE]
Hill was not a 4-year player, and he did not have an impact his freshman year. He was a contributor, but certainly not an impact player.
Eddie only averaged 4.3 ppg his freshman season in playing 19 mpg. Diego averaged 5.7 ppg in playing 20 mpg his freshman year. Both contributed, but neither were impact players their freshman seasons.
Jarvis, Jobey, Rodney, Demon, and Withers are the only impact freshman weâve really had over the last 20 seasons. Weâve had some great four-year players over that time including these guys (sans Rodney), but these were the only ones that had a major impact to the teamâs performance during their freshmen seasons.
i dont think the nit is a great year. im saying that we will look completly different as a team next season. we will(at some point) have a backup point guard to give dijuan a rest, at least two or three low post scorers who are also great rebounders who will make phil better by taking double teams away from him. we will have a big time long distance shooter who can take the pressure off our big guys meaning ian come in off the bench where he should be. we will be much deeper, dewhurst will be at least somewhat healthy giving us another weapon in our lineup since he wont have to play point guard. we have two scholarships to give meaning one will go to a point as i just pointed out and the other may go to another guy who can give us points and/or rebounds off the bench. these things have a snowball effect.From posts on here, I've read that Spears is an "average" rebounder. Phil isn't a good rebounder. I'm not sure who you believe is going to come in and get all these boards. Braswell? Maybe. Sherrill's level of competition is relatively weak, so I doubt he even has to practice the fundamentals to get rebounds, but that's just speculation.
Everyone thinks Bowden is going to put up 25 points a game. He and Spears will be the only players that I would feel comfortable taking a jumpshot. How can you be confident with that?
i have never read where spears was called an average rebounder but i can go by his stats. he lead bc in rebounding as an underclassmen and when i saw him last summer his rebounding looked great.
X, good list. One thing about Cam is he had a year at Purdue before going the JUCO route, so he had already been tested in the Big 10. Anyway, I can understand the mixed feelings about JUCOs since thatâs been hit-and-miss as of late â hits in Coley, Drayton, and Mack and misses in Antwon Coleman, Carlos Williams, and Courtney Williams.
Interesting looking at what Everhart is doing at Duquesne. When he took over the Dukes and âcleaned houseâ on the Bluff, he kept 2 players (one being Aaron Jackson). He brought in a mix of frosh, JUCOs, transfers, and walk-ons. Three seasons later there were no JUCOs, no transfers (of course, he hadnât anticipated the âone-and-doneâ by Shawn James and Kojo Mensah), only one senior, no juniors, and a slew of underclassmen. And Majerus is pretty much doing the same thing at Saint Louis.
Not saying no to JUCOs completely, but should used sparingly. Success in the A-10 is pretty much built around 4-year players with the occasional impact transfer.
I'm being realistic, not pessimistic. How many impact freshman have we had in the last 20 years? Demarco Johson had arguably the best career of anyone we have ever had, and he didnt come in and dominate the country as a freshman. The talent we have on the team right now have accomplished nothing, and havent really shown that much potential. If u think injuries to Dew and Wilderness are to blame for winning 10 games this year, then you arent being realistic. In the past 5 years or so, our best player would have been about the 3 or 4 option on most of our teams in the 90's. And our 2nd best player probably would have played about 10 min. a game. Thinking that a couple freshman and a BC transfer are gonna come in and automatically make us good is just not realistic. I've been hearing "we are gonna be good next year" for about 5 years now, and its the same crap year after year.
You forget, Demarco had a JUCO PG who is arguably the most talented PG in Niners History.
Now, we have a JUCO PG whoâs pretty damn good too.
Comparing our crop of players to chose from to those of a top 20 program is not realistic. They donât have jucos because they donât have to recruit jucos. If we are able to land 1 of the top 3 players, on our desired list of HS players at a position, we wouldnât go to jucos at all.
A couple of questions:
When a player transfers in from another D1 school, does he recieve a scholarship the year he sits out?
Players transferring to a lower or differant level of college is rather common (Moss, Hill, Terrell etc). If a player wanted to transfer from Pffiefer, Central or wherever up to Div 1, would the rules concerning that differ from a xfer between Div 1 schools?
[QUOTE=run49er;396050]X, good list. One thing about Cam is he had a year at Purdue before going the JUCO route, so he had already been tested in the Big 10.[/QUOTE]
Bennett is in that same boat, as he was originally at Michigan. I donât believe he played a game there, but spent a year at a D1 program. If I remember correctly, he redshirted there, and then transferred to JUCO without ever having played for them. Statsheet.com does not list him as having played a game for Michigan.
[QUOTE=gamer;396069]A couple of questions:
When a player transfers in from another D1 school, does he receive a scholarship the year he sits out?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Spears is currently on scholarship.
[QUOTE=gamer;396069]Players transferring to a lower or differant level of college is rather common (Moss, Hill, Terrell etc). If a player wanted to transfer from Pffiefer, Central or wherever up to Div 1, would the rules concerning that differ from a xfer between Div 1 schools?[/QUOTE]
You can transfer down to DII or DIII with no sitout penalty. Iâm not sure about if you transfer up, though.
One advantage to JUCOs is they are not here long. What?
Recruiting is like dating. If you are a 4 you arenât going to be able to go out with an 8, but you might get a couple of 5s and a 6. If you marry the 6 you are stuck with her. But if you just date her to prove that you can, your grade goes up and you might get to go out with a 7.
Right now the Niners are desperately trying to date-up to rebuild their image. If we only get four-year players then it will take us a long time before we get an 8. And we want an 8. The half-life of JUCOs lets us move up quicker. The problem is, it also lets us move down quicker. If we donât choose well we will quickly be dating 2s. See Hal Wissel.
One advantage to JUCOs is they are not here long. What?Recruiting is like dating. If you are a 4 you arenât going to be able to go out with an 8, but you might get a couple of 5s and a 6. If you marry the 6 you are stuck with her. But if you just date her to prove that you can, your grade goes up and you might get to go out with a 7.
Right now the Niners are desperately trying to date-up to rebuild their image. If we only get four-year players then it will take us a long time before we get an 8. And we want an 8. The half-life of JUCOs lets us move up quicker. The problem is, it also lets us move down quicker. If we donât choose well we will quickly be dating 2s. See Hal Wissel.
But if you marry a 6 then theyâre less likely to leave you for someone else. And you can motivate them to increase their value to become a 7, which what all daters should be doing. You should improve your assets once you get it. Makes you look better.
So your saying would we wanna date a 5 for four years or an 8 for two years⌠I would date more 5s for four years but you always have to have some 8s for temporary arm candy, otherwise you get bored.
Also, timing of dating is always key. You canât break up with four dates at the same time!!! then youâre lonely!!!
But if you marry a 6 then they're less likely to leave you for someone else.That's pretty much the reason a lot of people don't want to get rid of Lutz.
Alert - this is the best post you will ever read on how we should feel about Jucos:
I would say the piece we donât realize is Jucos are on many teams these days; Big 12, Kentucky, MD etc⌠Our program and our staff seem to have an excellent reputation at the Juco level, and can reach in and get as good as Top 5 talent there, and Top 10/20 talent every year.
So it is difficult to conclude we should drop that advantage, in fact it should be the opposite, we should make sure we are signing one of the best Jucoâs consistently every year !
We have had are best success with I think the term is hidden away players, ones that are just either put their to get experience or need to be their for a year; such as Cam, Drayton, Colson etcâŚ
[QUOTE=X-49er;396080]You can transfer down to DII or DIII with no sitout penalty. Iâm not sure about if you transfer up, though.[/QUOTE]
Still have to sit out. Recent example is Andrew Taylor from Hillsdale College in Michigan (D-II) to Xavier.
There are a lot of good teams that have JUCOs as role players, primarily in the Big 12 and SEC.
The increased popularity of Prep Schools have diminished the JUCO scene a bit, but overall schools still utilize them.
There is a guy Nate Miles that might be available in a year, should we pursue him?
[QUOTE=Charlotte2002;396258]There is a guy Nate Miles that might be available in a year, should we pursue him?[/QUOTE]
No, no, and no.
No, no, and no.
Come on 5 HSs in 4 years, it worked for us before.
Comparing our crop of players to chose from to those of a top 20 program is not realistic. They don't have jucos because they don't have to recruit jucos. If we are able to land 1 of the top 3 players, on our desired list of HS players at a position, we wouldn't go to jucos at all.A better comparison would be to the higher achieving teams in the A10. How many jucos do they recruit?
The problem with jucos is that they contribute at best one or maybe 2 good seasons (with the rare exception, Harris probably being one). You can bring in one to fill a hole, but what if you consistently have holes year after year? Weâre still paying for the recruiting disaster that happened after our move to the A10, so thatâs probably the bigger issue than this year where we need to fill a couple transfer spots. But wouldnât it be nice if we had recruited a pg this year early on (Gerrity transfer or not), so we wouldnât be in a position of desperate need.
There is a guy Nate Miles that might be available in a year, should we pursue him?Ha! I'm sure we'll argue about it though....
The difference is for most teams JUCOs are fill-in guys. JUCOs here are the stars, e.g. Drayton, Mack, and Coley recently (Also, Alexander who was technically a xfer but still a 2 year player).
Iâll take Withers and Goldwire over Drayton, Mack, and Coley.
JUCO's are just like freshman: hit and miss. The upside is they have 1-2 more years of experience against better competition than they likely faced in high school. The down side is that they will only be here 2-3 years, and their break-in time to learn the system is not much different than a quality freshman's.This is a more measured view, to be sure. A better question might be whether itâs a good strategy to rely on recruiting jucos, rather than saying itâs âpointlessâ. We rely on jucos due to frequent recruiting failures.With that said, give me any current JUCO the level of the guys below and Iâll take them over an unknown freshman any day:
Lamont Mack
E.J. Drayton
Marcus Bennett
Jermaine Williams
Cam Stephens
James Zimmerman
Galen Young
Versile Shaw
Sean Colson
Alexander KuehleNow, you can make a list equally as long, or longer, than that list of the JUCOâs who were not impact players. The list for freshman over the same time period is just as long. To say that JUCOâs donât work out and ârecruiting them is pointlessâ is coming from someone who has not been following our program very long or that is simply wrong.
To a different point: I donât think we know anything more about jucos than we do about high school freshmen. The athleticism and talent level may be higher (though thatâs debatable anymore with prep schools and most top high school players avoiding jucos altogether), but the defense played in Juco is awful. Itâs also the reason all these reports of players performances in summer leagues, rec leagues, etc are meaningless, because the awful D makes players look like offensive juggernauts. I assume coaches can make a sounder evaluation, but it must be more difficult even for them.