This thread got bumped why? Was actually looking forward to real news when I saw this.
Found my own answer. Actual discussion hidden once again in the Shoutbox. No wonder visitors think this board is dead.
(20:06:27) jfickett: what is the stadium non-expansiâon talk? (20:11:43) ninerID: I made a comment to spease about GaSt and CCU making expansion moves. (20:12:07) ninerID: He responded "most think our stadium is pretty nice the way it is" (20:24:48) jfickett: glad we are content playing as a pop warner team in the smallest stadium in FBS football. (20:25:09) jfickett: If we didnt want to be FBS, we should have just stayed FCS (20:25:15) jfickett: you cant "kinda" go FBS (20:25:34) jfickett: you gotta commit full bore to spending those student fees, or just hang back in FCS and say fuk it (20:26:19) ninerID: We are at the bare minimum. That is who we are. (20:38:03) Niner_National: Lol @ spease comment (20:41:24) ninerID: Sorry. Exact quote was (20:41:39) ninerID: " we have a pretty nice stadium as is. At least most think so." (20:43:35) Niner_National: Yeah, quality wise it is nice. Nobody is debating that (20:59:11) 49r9r: "Nice Stadium" means someone does not want to try to fill a larger stadium. (21:00:16) 49r9r: if we have a winning year next year, that stadium will suddenly be too small. having seating for only 8000 or 9000 non-studentâs is nothing to brag about (21:03:00) ninerID: Our stadium is large enough to not have to market (21:03:17) ninerID: Bigger stadium would just create work (21:03:45) jfickett: ^^^^^ ding ding ding
If JRS stays at its current capacity, we will be behind all FOUR Sunbelt programs in our primary recruiting footprint. App is already bigger. Coastal, who actually has vision, is expanding their stadium to IIIRC 24k, and it will be every bit as âniceâ as ours. Ga Southern already expanded to over 20k. And as confirmed yesterday, Ga State is now officially getting Turner Field, which will be converted to a 30k stadium which will feature all of the amenities that it currently has, including lux boxes, etc.(why donât we have boxes ??)
We cannot compete being so small minded. I do not understand how our administration can be so obtuse as to willingly fall behind four Sunbelt programs, in addition to ODU, ECU, the ACC, etc that we are already behind. We are so small minded that itâs baffling. We have, ostensibly, App, Duke, and CHeat coming in⌠We will be able to sell a lot of tickets to all of those games. Why are we so afraid of being more than the minimum??
And what happens if we start winning? We can already fill the stadium for night conference games in anything other than a downpour. If we are playing competitive football, people are going to be mad if they canât get tix. Once again, our leadership is reactionary instead of visionary.
One other thing - as pointed out by an ECU fan friend of mine at work. Having a tiny stadium affects the optics of our games. He is curious about being a casual fan of our football program (his 2nd team), but he hates our camera angles at games because we donât have a proper FBS level press box that places cameras at the higher broadcasting position that fans are used to when they turn on a game at Clemson, or CHeat, or even ECU. I mention it because it is the type of thing our entire AD seems to be completely oblivious of. How our games look on TV matters. We look small time because we are designed that way.
This type of small mindedness turns my fandom towards frustration if not outright despair. I had planned on doubling my season tix sometime in the next couple of seasons, but with this type of leadership attitude, why bother? They arenât serious about winning or being great. Why should I care?
Our official ADâs slogan should be: Minimum necessarium esse, nihil magis , because thatâs how itâs run.
clt says we also need a bigger team store at the rich. clt feels like he is playing a carnival game when he wants to look at a 49er SnapBack hat.
I would like to point out that I think spease is just giving the company man response here. I think he understands the need to grow. Itâs unfortunate for him heâs the only one that steps out from behind the wall at Minitrue.
Having said thatâŚ
I said this in the thread about recruiting budget. Iâm done complaining about coaches here (save Tall, he was horrible).
Bobby Lutz, Alan Major, Hibbs, price, Jeff Mullen, lambert. Iâm sorry for most of my complaints. Itâs not fair to be as critical as I have been when the proper tools arenât given.
College athletics is an arms race. We donât care.
I donât expect JRS to be Death Valley. I donât even expect 40k in my lifetime. But for goodness sakes we shouldnât be in GaSt and CCUs rear view mirror and we for damn sure shouldnât be content with it.
App does NOT âusuallyâ have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.
App does NOT âusuallyâ have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]
clt says you can literally just walk into the appy stadium without a ticket.
I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.
[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font]
App does NOT âusuallyâ have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]
Kidd Brewer seating capacity is 24050. In 2007 regular season App average over 27000 but the attendance number dropped to 24000 due to hosting home playoff games throughout the FCS playoffs. At that point the stadium seating capacity was only 15750 and that season lead to the expansion on the East side of the stadium. In 2008 they average almost 29000 during the regular season and 25000 after hosting two playoff games. After this season the temporary seats were added to the endzone which pushed the capacity to close to what it is today. The 2007 and 2008 seasons were the reason for the expansion as the attendance numbers warranted it.
[quote=âwinsel1081, post:538, topic:28757â]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.
[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]Theyâll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.
Theyâll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place. If we ever play there (which Iâm sure we will), weâll probably take a decent crowd too.
[quote=âNiner National, post:540, topic:28757â][quote=âwinsel1081, post:538, topic:28757â]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.
[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]Theyâll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.
Theyâll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their placeâŚ[/quote]
How many fans (from both teams) do you think will want to attend our game against App? I think 25k minimal. Probably more than that.
App does NOT âusuallyâ have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]
Kidd Brewer seating capacity is 24050. In 2007 regular season App average over 27000 but the attendance number dropped to 24000 due to hosting home playoff games throughout the FCS playoffs. At that point the stadium seating capacity was only 15750 and that season lead to the expansion on the East side of the stadium. In 2008 they average almost 29000 during the regular season and 25000 after hosting two playoff games. After this season the temporary seats were added to the endzone which pushed the capacity to close to what it is today. The 2007 and 2008 seasons were the reason for the expansion as the attendance numbers warranted it.[/quote]
So, like I said they donât âusuallyâ have 30,000 there. Thanks.
App does NOT âusuallyâ have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]
Kidd Brewer seating capacity is 24050. In 2007 regular season App average over 27000 but the attendance number dropped to 24000 due to hosting home playoff games throughout the FCS playoffs. At that point the stadium seating capacity was only 15750 and that season lead to the expansion on the East side of the stadium. In 2008 they average almost 29000 during the regular season and 25000 after hosting two playoff games. After this season the temporary seats were added to the endzone which pushed the capacity to close to what it is today. The 2007 and 2008 seasons were the reason for the expansion as the attendance numbers warranted it.[/quote]
So, like I said they donât âusuallyâ have 30,000 there. Thanks.[/quote]
Your welcome just was trying to add some perspective on why they expanded the stadium.
[quote=âNiner National, post:540, topic:28757â][quote=âwinsel1081, post:538, topic:28757â]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.
[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]Theyâll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.
Theyâll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place. If we ever play there (which Iâm sure we will), weâll probably take a decent crowd too.[/quote]
That would be my thinking too and maybe a few more if they are having a good year. I firmly believe it is worth expanding to cover those games but, I would say also you donât want to expand too much just to cover the occasional need for 30k fans. To me that it would be a mistake to add too many seats and only fill them once a year at most. I say if you average attendance become 20000 a year then a good number would be around 22k-23K. I donât know what that number should be for Charlotte though because right now the average is less than 15k.
Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we havenât expanded yet or because we havenât officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?
Thatâs what bothers me.
So many people have invested their time and money in this.
How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?
[quote=âwinsel1081, post:544, topic:28757â][quote=âNiner National, post:540, topic:28757â][quote=âwinsel1081, post:538, topic:28757â]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.
[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]Theyâll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.
Theyâll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place. If we ever play there (which Iâm sure we will), weâll probably take a decent crowd too.[/quote]
That would be my thinking too and maybe a few more if they are having a good year. I firmly believe it is worth expanding to cover those games but, I would say also you donât want to expand too much just to cover the occasional need for 30k fans. To me that it would be a mistake to add too many seats and only fill them once a year at most. I say if you average attendance become 20000 a year then a good number would be around 22k-23K. I donât know what that number should be for Charlotte though because right now the average is less than 15k.[/quote]
In all fairness, attendance would have easily been over 15k if not for the HORRIBLE weather for the Temple game. That game would have been a guaranteed 16k+ sellout under even decent weather. That night sucked.
[quote=âNinerAdvocate, post:533, topic:28757â]If JRS stays at its current capacity, we will be behind all FOUR Sunbelt programs in our primary recruiting footprint. App is already bigger. Coastal, who actually has vision, is expanding their stadium to IIIRC 24k, and it will be every bit as âniceâ as ours. Ga Southern already expanded to over 20k. And as confirmed yesterday, Ga State is now officially getting Turner Field, which will be converted to a 30k stadium which will feature all of the amenities that it currently has, including lux boxes, etc.(why donât we have boxes ??)
http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/turner-field-to-be-sold-to-georgia-state-and-devel/nppZC/
We cannot compete being so small minded. I do not understand how our administration can be so obtuse as to willingly fall behind four Sunbelt programs, in addition to ODU, ECU, the ACC, etc that we are already behind. We are so small minded that itâs baffling. We have, ostensibly, App, Duke, and CHeat coming in⌠We will be able to sell a lot of tickets to all of those games. Why are we so afraid of being more than the minimum??
And what happens if we start winning? We can already fill the stadium for night conference games in anything other than a downpour. If we are playing competitive football, people are going to be mad if they canât get tix. Once again, our leadership is reactionary instead of visionary.
One other thing - as pointed out by an ECU fan friend of mine at work. Having a tiny stadium affects the optics of our games. He is curious about being a casual fan of our football program (his 2nd team), but he hates our camera angles at games because we donât have a proper FBS level press box that places cameras at the higher broadcasting position that fans are used to when they turn on a game at Clemson, or CHeat, or even ECU. I mention it because it is the type of thing our entire AD seems to be completely oblivious of. How our games look on TV matters. We look small time because we are designed that way.
This type of small mindedness turns my fandom towards frustration if not outright despair. I had planned on doubling my season tix sometime in the next couple of seasons, but with this type of leadership attitude, why bother? They arenât serious about winning or being great. Why should I care?
Our official ADâs slogan should be: Minimum necessarium esse, nihil magis , because thatâs how itâs run.[/quote]
Excellent post.
[quote=âGassman, post:545, topic:28757â]Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we havenât expanded yet or because we havenât officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?
Thatâs what bothers me.
So many people have invested their time and money in this.
How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?[/quote]
No public plan means they canât be held accountable for failure to execute that plan.
[quote=âGassman, post:545, topic:28757â]Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we havenât expanded yet or because we havenât officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?
Thatâs what bothers me.
So many people have invested their time and money in this.
How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?[/quote]
Judy has announced our expansion plans in an interview didnât she?. She said that we will not expand until we have sold out what we have, right?. The problem is, Judy is responsible for filling those empty seats. The burden is on her as she said.
I donât get the immense preoccupation with our immediate stadium size.
Regardless of sizeâŚwe do have very nice and brand new facilities that are plenty good enough to recruit the kids we need. Would a larger stadium helpâŚI guess soâŚit would look bigger on visits. But just would look emptier on game day.
I donât doubt it can help marginallyâŚbut does that single handedly flip a switch to where 4 & 5 star kids start lining up at the door just because we can seat 30K (which may be 1/3 attended on game day)? A recruit has SOOOOO many other things to consider. If you ranked the top list of things recruits consider for selecting a schoolâŚwhere does stadium size fall on the list?? Facilities come in to playâŚbut specific to stadium size? I think there are plenty more recruiting tools that come before stadium size such as Location, conference affiliation, playing time, playing style, coaches, tradition, fan supportâŚmaybe WINNING. I think fan support would rank ahead of stadium size to a recruit. Who cares if the stadium is 40K if only 10K show up??
The point isâŚif we arenât happy with the talent and recruitingâŚstadium size doesnât fix that. There are plenty of schools with bigger stadiums that get worse talent than we do. And the camera angles at those big stadiums make them look small time too because no one is in the stands. You really think App State recruits kids by pulling down their pants to show the kids their stadium size?! Or do they talk about their tradition, their rabid fan base/support, their move to D1, their out of Conference schedule, their style of play and the fact that they WIN? I bet stadium size is never mentioned to an App State recruit.
We need to winâŚwe need to market to the communityâŚhell, we need to market to students and alumâŚand we need to replace Coach Rat who was our primary and most passionate recruiter.
And for scheduling P5 teams. That hasnât hurt us to this pointâŚwe are scheduling them left and right already.
We are still early in the process of building a programâŚand stadium expansion is in that process (and should be at some point). It needs to be on the listâŚbut not priority #1 or #2 and not right now. I just think itâs misguided and irresponsible to make it a priority over other steps in the process that desperately need to come first. Those being investments in marketing, game day production, fan experience, reaching out to students/alumni and building a winning team. Iâd rather spend the money to do thatâŚthen the more talented players will want to be here and then, more casual fans will want to come watch. Thatâs when you expand.