Stadium expansion and 2015 opener?

[49r9r]

[quote=“Niner National, post:540, topic:28757”][quote=“winsel1081, post:538, topic:28757”]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.

[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]They’ll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.

They’ll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place…[/quote]

How many fans (from both teams) do you think will want to attend our game against App? I think 25k minimal. Probably more than that.

[919R]

@winsel1081

[quote=“919R, post:536, topic:28757”][quote=“woodniner, post:528, topic:28757”]If we ever want to get to the “NEXT LEVEL” we are going to have to get the stadium to the 30k mark. Hard to knock App when they usually have 30k per game and we struggle to get to 15k. Recruits want to play in front of larger crowds.

App does NOT “usually” have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]

Kidd Brewer seating capacity is 24050. In 2007 regular season App average over 27000 but the attendance number dropped to 24000 due to hosting home playoff games throughout the FCS playoffs. At that point the stadium seating capacity was only 15750 and that season lead to the expansion on the East side of the stadium. In 2008 they average almost 29000 during the regular season and 25000 after hosting two playoff games. After this season the temporary seats were added to the endzone which pushed the capacity to close to what it is today. The 2007 and 2008 seasons were the reason for the expansion as the attendance numbers warranted it.[/quote]
So, like I said they don’t “usually” have 30,000 there. Thanks.

[winsel1081]

@919R

[quote=“winsel1081, post:539, topic:28757”][quote=“919R, post:536, topic:28757”][quote=“woodniner, post:528, topic:28757”]If we ever want to get to the “NEXT LEVEL” we are going to have to get the stadium to the 30k mark. Hard to knock App when they usually have 30k per game and we struggle to get to 15k. Recruits want to play in front of larger crowds.

App does NOT “usually” have 30K per game (they have reported 30,000+ maybe 3-4 times EVER). You need to stop believing the App hype. They averaged low to mid-20s this season (and have never averaged more than mid 20s) I believe they actually only have ~23,000+ real seats after their last expansion.[/quote]

Kidd Brewer seating capacity is 24050. In 2007 regular season App average over 27000 but the attendance number dropped to 24000 due to hosting home playoff games throughout the FCS playoffs. At that point the stadium seating capacity was only 15750 and that season lead to the expansion on the East side of the stadium. In 2008 they average almost 29000 during the regular season and 25000 after hosting two playoff games. After this season the temporary seats were added to the endzone which pushed the capacity to close to what it is today. The 2007 and 2008 seasons were the reason for the expansion as the attendance numbers warranted it.[/quote]
So, like I said they don’t “usually” have 30,000 there. Thanks.[/quote]

Your welcome just was trying to add some perspective on why they expanded the stadium.

[winsel1081]

[quote=“Niner National, post:540, topic:28757”][quote=“winsel1081, post:538, topic:28757”]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.

[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]They’ll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.

They’ll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place. If we ever play there (which I’m sure we will), we’ll probably take a decent crowd too.[/quote]

That would be my thinking too and maybe a few more if they are having a good year. I firmly believe it is worth expanding to cover those games but, I would say also you don’t want to expand too much just to cover the occasional need for 30k fans. To me that it would be a mistake to add too many seats and only fill them once a year at most. I say if you average attendance become 20000 a year then a good number would be around 22k-23K. I don’t know what that number should be for Charlotte though because right now the average is less than 15k.

[Gassman]

Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we haven’t expanded yet or because we haven’t officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?

That’s what bothers me.

So many people have invested their time and money in this.

How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?

[AlexNiner11]

[quote=“winsel1081, post:544, topic:28757”][quote=“Niner National, post:540, topic:28757”][quote=“winsel1081, post:538, topic:28757”]I am curious to see how Coastal does with attendance moving up. I believe Brooks stadium holds around 9300 currently and was designed to be expanded to 20000 which is what their plans call for. In order to move up to the FBS level they were required to make the stadium larger to maintain the 15k attendance mark. The thing that will be interesting does the increase in size correlate into increase in attendance. They have only average about 8500 a game over the past few years so it bears watching on that end.

[font=verdana][size=2px]The[/size][/font][/quote]They’ll probably be in the 12-15,000 range honestly.

They’ll get bumps in years when they have an attractive home slate. App and Ga So will definitely bring a lot of fans to their place. If we ever play there (which I’m sure we will), we’ll probably take a decent crowd too.[/quote]

That would be my thinking too and maybe a few more if they are having a good year. I firmly believe it is worth expanding to cover those games but, I would say also you don’t want to expand too much just to cover the occasional need for 30k fans. To me that it would be a mistake to add too many seats and only fill them once a year at most. I say if you average attendance become 20000 a year then a good number would be around 22k-23K. I don’t know what that number should be for Charlotte though because right now the average is less than 15k.[/quote]

In all fairness, attendance would have easily been over 15k if not for the HORRIBLE weather for the Temple game. That game would have been a guaranteed 16k+ sellout under even decent weather. That night sucked.

[Mr_Bojangles]

[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:533, topic:28757”]If JRS stays at its current capacity, we will be behind all FOUR Sunbelt programs in our primary recruiting footprint. App is already bigger. Coastal, who actually has vision, is expanding their stadium to IIIRC 24k, and it will be every bit as “nice” as ours. Ga Southern already expanded to over 20k. And as confirmed yesterday, Ga State is now officially getting Turner Field, which will be converted to a 30k stadium which will feature all of the amenities that it currently has, including lux boxes, etc.(why don’t we have boxes ??)

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/turner-field-to-be-sold-to-georgia-state-and-devel/nppZC/

We cannot compete being so small minded. I do not understand how our administration can be so obtuse as to willingly fall behind four Sunbelt programs, in addition to ODU, ECU, the ACC, etc that we are already behind. We are so small minded that it’s baffling. We have, ostensibly, App, Duke, and CHeat coming in… We will be able to sell a lot of tickets to all of those games. Why are we so afraid of being more than the minimum??

And what happens if we start winning? We can already fill the stadium for night conference games in anything other than a downpour. If we are playing competitive football, people are going to be mad if they can’t get tix. Once again, our leadership is reactionary instead of visionary.

One other thing - as pointed out by an ECU fan friend of mine at work. Having a tiny stadium affects the optics of our games. He is curious about being a casual fan of our football program (his 2nd team), but he hates our camera angles at games because we don’t have a proper FBS level press box that places cameras at the higher broadcasting position that fans are used to when they turn on a game at Clemson, or CHeat, or even ECU. I mention it because it is the type of thing our entire AD seems to be completely oblivious of. How our games look on TV matters. We look small time because we are designed that way.

This type of small mindedness turns my fandom towards frustration if not outright despair. I had planned on doubling my season tix sometime in the next couple of seasons, but with this type of leadership attitude, why bother? They aren’t serious about winning or being great. Why should I care?

Our official AD’s slogan should be: Minimum necessarium esse, nihil magis , because that’s how it’s run.[/quote]

Excellent post.

[emf]

[quote=“Gassman, post:545, topic:28757”]Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we haven’t expanded yet or because we haven’t officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?

That’s what bothers me.

So many people have invested their time and money in this.

How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?[/quote]
No public plan means they can’t be held accountable for failure to execute that plan.

[Mr_Bojangles]

[quote=“Gassman, post:545, topic:28757”]Is it reasonable and accurate to say that our consternation with this situation is NOT because we haven’t expanded yet or because we haven’t officially announced expansion, but rather because all the fans are in the dark as to our plans, the reasoning behind those plans and even whether or not we eve have a plan?

That’s what bothers me.

So many people have invested their time and money in this.

How about a little transparency? How about a little communication?[/quote]

Judy has announced our expansion plans in an interview didn’t she?. She said that we will not expand until we have sold out what we have, right?. The problem is, Judy is responsible for filling those empty seats. The burden is on her as she said.

[TRLeader]

I don’t get the immense preoccupation with our immediate stadium size.

Regardless of size…we do have very nice and brand new facilities that are plenty good enough to recruit the kids we need. Would a larger stadium help…I guess so…it would look bigger on visits. But just would look emptier on game day.

I don’t doubt it can help marginally…but does that single handedly flip a switch to where 4 & 5 star kids start lining up at the door just because we can seat 30K (which may be 1/3 attended on game day)? A recruit has SOOOOO many other things to consider. If you ranked the top list of things recruits consider for selecting a school…where does stadium size fall on the list?? Facilities come in to play…but specific to stadium size? I think there are plenty more recruiting tools that come before stadium size such as Location, conference affiliation, playing time, playing style, coaches, tradition, fan support…maybe WINNING. I think fan support would rank ahead of stadium size to a recruit. Who cares if the stadium is 40K if only 10K show up??

The point is…if we aren’t happy with the talent and recruiting…stadium size doesn’t fix that. There are plenty of schools with bigger stadiums that get worse talent than we do. And the camera angles at those big stadiums make them look small time too because no one is in the stands. You really think App State recruits kids by pulling down their pants to show the kids their stadium size?! Or do they talk about their tradition, their rabid fan base/support, their move to D1, their out of Conference schedule, their style of play and the fact that they WIN? I bet stadium size is never mentioned to an App State recruit.

We need to win…we need to market to the community…hell, we need to market to students and alum…and we need to replace Coach Rat who was our primary and most passionate recruiter.

And for scheduling P5 teams. That hasn’t hurt us to this point…we are scheduling them left and right already.

We are still early in the process of building a program…and stadium expansion is in that process (and should be at some point). It needs to be on the list…but not priority #1 or #2 and not right now. I just think it’s misguided and irresponsible to make it a priority over other steps in the process that desperately need to come first. Those being investments in marketing, game day production, fan experience, reaching out to students/alumni and building a winning team. I’d rather spend the money to do that…then the more talented players will want to be here and then, more casual fans will want to come watch. That’s when you expand.

[system]

[quote=“TRLeader, post:550, topic:28757”]I don’t get the immense preoccupation with our immediate stadium size.

Regardless of size…we do have very nice and brand new facilities that are plenty good enough to recruit the kids we need. Would a larger stadium help…I guess so…it would look bigger on visits. But just would look emptier on game day.

I don’t doubt it can help marginally…but does that single handedly flip a switch to where 4 & 5 star kids start lining up at the door just because we can seat 30K (which may be 1/3 attended on game day)? A recruit has SOOOOO many other things to consider. If you ranked the top list of things recruits consider for selecting a school…where does stadium size fall on the list?? Facilities come in to play…but specific to stadium size? I think there are plenty more recruiting tools that come before stadium size such as Location, conference affiliation, playing time, playing style, coaches, tradition, fan support…maybe WINNING. I think fan support would rank ahead of stadium size to a recruit. Who cares if the stadium is 40K if only 10K show up??

The point is…if we aren’t happy with the talent and recruiting…stadium size doesn’t fix that. There are plenty of schools with bigger stadiums that get worse talent than we do. And the camera angles at those big stadiums make them look small time too because no one is in the stands. You really think App State recruits kids by pulling down their pants to show the kids their stadium size?! Or do they talk about their tradition, their rabid fan base/support, their move to D1, their out of Conference schedule, their style of play and the fact that they WIN? I bet stadium size is never mentioned to an App State recruit.

We need to win…we need to market to the community…hell, we need to market to students and alum…and we need to replace Coach Rat who was our primary and most passionate recruiter.

And for scheduling P5 teams. That hasn’t hurt us to this point…we are scheduling them left and right already.

We are still early in the process of building a program…and stadium expansion is in that process (and should be at some point). It needs to be on the list…but not priority #1 or #2 and not right now. I just think it’s misguided and irresponsible to make it a priority over other steps in the process that desperately need to come first. Those being investments in marketing, game day production, fan experience, reaching out to students/alumni and building a winning team. I’d rather spend the money to do that…then the more talented players will want to be here and then, more casual fans will want to come watch. That’s when you expand.
[/quote]

clt says great post. But it all comes back to cash. The bigger the stadium that we can fill, the better. More revenue for the crap that the millenials obsess about.

Appy puts people on a hill watching football, but they are not paying what we are paying.

[winsel1081]

[quote=“TRLeader, post:550, topic:28757”]I don’t get the immense preoccupation with our immediate stadium size.

Regardless of size…we do have very nice and brand new facilities that are plenty good enough to recruit the kids we need. Would a larger stadium help…I guess so…it would look bigger on visits. But just would look emptier on game day.

I don’t doubt it can help marginally…but does that single handedly flip a switch to where 4 & 5 star kids start lining up at the door just because we can seat 30K (which may be 1/3 attended on game day)? A recruit has SOOOOO many other things to consider. If you ranked the top list of things recruits consider for selecting a school…where does stadium size fall on the list?? Facilities come in to play…but specific to stadium size? I think there are plenty more recruiting tools that come before stadium size such as Location, conference affiliation, playing time, playing style, coaches, tradition, fan support…maybe WINNING. I think fan support would rank ahead of stadium size to a recruit. Who cares if the stadium is 40K if only 10K show up??

The point is…if we aren’t happy with the talent and recruiting…stadium size doesn’t fix that. There are plenty of schools with bigger stadiums that get worse talent than we do. And the camera angles at those big stadiums make them look small time too because no one is in the stands. You really think App State recruits kids by pulling down their pants to show the kids their stadium size?! Or do they talk about their tradition, their rabid fan base/support, their move to D1, their out of Conference schedule, their style of play and the fact that they WIN? I bet stadium size is never mentioned to an App State recruit.

We need to win…we need to market to the community…hell, we need to market to students and alum…and we need to replace Coach Rat who was our primary and most passionate recruiter.

And for scheduling P5 teams. That hasn’t hurt us to this point…we are scheduling them left and right already.

We are still early in the process of building a program…and stadium expansion is in that process (and should be at some point). It needs to be on the list…but not priority #1 or #2 and not right now. I just think it’s misguided and irresponsible to make it a priority over other steps in the process that desperately need to come first. Those being investments in marketing, game day production, fan experience, reaching out to students/alumni and building a winning team. I’d rather spend the money to do that…then the more talented players will want to be here and then, more casual fans will want to come watch. That’s when you expand.
[/quote]

The exact point I was trying to make but said much better. There are reasons recruits are brought to big games where stadiums will be packed and that is because they want the kids to see the full game day stadium experience. That kid could care less about how big the stadium is, but he might notice if the stadium is not packed, fans aren’t loud, students not interested, or just a bad game day experience. Those things are way more important than a bigger stadium will ever be.

[Nugget]

I think we need a bigger stadium, but I think many of those expansion seats will be empty until we start winning most of our games. Assuming that we can expand in 5000 seat blocks, do we go to 20,530 for now, or 25,530? At 20,530 would the expansion be an upper level on one side only? If so, it seems it would be less expensive to do that on the student side, and let attendance in those seats help fund the next expansion.

I believe that winning sells seats, not the athletic department. Sure, they can do a better job of making it clear when and how to buy them, but you can’t push tickets for a losing program on casual fans. Charlotte just has too many other entertainment options available. I think our basketball program has proven that.

[system]

Couldnt disagree more. Winning makes selling them easier, but it is on the AD to make football games an event. All things considered, in comparison to other entertainment options you referenced, season tix or even 2 or 3 game packs to our games are a bargain. Tailgating, family fun areas, student engagement, alumni events, community welcome/exposure events, all need to be an integral part of the gameday experience. Turn UCity into the place everyone wants to hang out on saturdays and people will come, even if we arent great, as long as we are competitive and bring in good opponents.

[Mr_Bojangles]

@jfickett

Couldnt disagree more. Winning makes selling them easier, but it is on the AD to make football games an event. All things considered, in comparison to other entertainment options you referenced, season tix or even 2 or 3 game packs to our games are a bargain. Tailgating, family fun areas, student engagement, alumni events, community welcome/exposure events, all need to be an integral part of the gameday experience. Turn UCity into the place everyone wants to hang out on saturdays and people will come, even if we arent great, as long as we are competitive and bring in good opponents.

Make endzone tickets dirt cheap if you have to. There is no excuse to not fill up the smallest stadium in FBS.

[NinerWupAss]

@Mr. Bojangles

[quote=“jfickett, post:554, topic:28757”]Couldnt disagree more. Winning makes selling them easier, but it is on the AD to make football games an event. All things considered, in comparison to other entertainment options you referenced, season tix or even 2 or 3 game packs to our games are a bargain. Tailgating, family fun areas, student engagement, alumni events, community welcome/exposure events, all need to be an integral part of the gameday experience. Turn UCity into the place everyone wants to hang out on saturdays and people will come, even if we arent great, as long as we are competitive and bring in good opponents.

Make endzone tickets dirt cheap if you have to. There is no excuse to not fill up the smallest stadium in FBS.[/quote]

Winning always makes selling seats easier. With that said our AD sucks at selling what we have. I agree with Bo make the endzone seats dirt cheap. Market the hell outta football in the spring and summer. We went all through the summer with very little marketing that we would be embarking on our first FBS season. That is on the AD. Blaming lack of attendance on losing is exactly what the AD does, look for excuses rather than find solutions.

[Niner_National]

@jfickett

Couldnt disagree more. Winning makes selling them easier, but it is on the AD to make football games an event. All things considered, in comparison to other entertainment options you referenced, season tix or even 2 or 3 game packs to our games are a bargain. Tailgating, family fun areas, student engagement, alumni events, community welcome/exposure events, all need to be an integral part of the gameday experience. Turn UCity into the place everyone wants to hang out on saturdays and people will come, even if we arent great, as long as we are competitive and bring in good opponents.

UCity sucks in every way imaginable. We are all the way across the city from the best demographics in Charlotte to promote a program to and the area is perceived as a shit hole by people who have never been. The recent spike in crime and shootings in the area certainly isn’t helping.

Not that it can be changed now, but we’d be so much better off if our campus is where CPCC is. We could offer our guys an NBA arena like Memphis does, we would be central to everyone in the city, and we’d offer entertainment options around the games so you can make an evening out of it. Can’t do that in UCity. The worst part about UCity is that it is mostly filled with cheap subdivisions that are starting to get to the point where they’re showing their age. They’re largely unremarkable starter homes and low quality apartment complexes that will not attract any kind of redevelopment money, so as the inner city poor areas are gentrified, those neighborhoods are going to be attractive to low income renters.

[AlexNiner11]

@NinerWupAss

[quote=“Mr. Bojangles, post:555, topic:28757”][quote=“jfickett, post:554, topic:28757”]Couldnt disagree more. Winning makes selling them easier, but it is on the AD to make football games an event. All things considered, in comparison to other entertainment options you referenced, season tix or even 2 or 3 game packs to our games are a bargain. Tailgating, family fun areas, student engagement, alumni events, community welcome/exposure events, all need to be an integral part of the gameday experience. Turn UCity into the place everyone wants to hang out on saturdays and people will come, even if we arent great, as long as we are competitive and bring in good opponents.

Make endzone tickets dirt cheap if you have to. There is no excuse to not fill up the smallest stadium in FBS.[/quote]

Winning always makes selling seats easier. With that said our AD sucks at selling what we have. I agree with Bo make the endzone seats dirt cheap. Market the hell outta football in the spring and summer. We went all through the summer with very little marketing that we would be embarking on our first FBS season. That is on the AD. Blaming lack of attendance on losing is exactly what the AD does, look for excuses rather than find solutions.[/quote]

There are people in Charlotte (some of them Charlotte graduates) who are not aware that we have Division 1 sports. I can’t even begin to imagine trying to explain to such people the difference between FBS and FCS.

That staggering lack of knowledge is brought upon by apathy. Apathy happens because we have an AD that is horrible at engaging not only with the student body but with the community at large, alumni and non-alumni.

Life is a flat circle with our AD.

[Oldrowniner]

This whole scenario with UNCC facilites, fans, attendance, and finding new followers is identical to growing a church.

We have the 1980’s pastor whos had his/her church 30 years, who has a few old donors that are 80yr old keeping the lights on, but hasn’t had a new member in months. Oh and there are thousands of members that haven’t attended Sunday svc in years, but come on xmas eve. There is still an old time choir behind her singing hymns putting the congregation to sleep.

Meanwhile, dozens Elevation types of churches built all around us with modern displays, modern feel, this century multimedia, music equal to Coldplay on stage, social media, and logo/brand. Also throw in a young current leader who connects to THOUSANDS of millenials, gen x, gen y. And probably picked off alot of your members being enthused about something better.

I’m not an Elevation guy, but admire the growth and tactics to gain audience. The 49ers need a Furtick type leader. Especially at a school everyone knows the biggest statistic is young alumni. Its a sleeping giant.

[Niner_National]

[quote=“Oldrowniner, post:559, topic:28757”]This whole scenario with UNCC facilites, fans, attendance, and finding new followers is identical to growing a church.

We have the 1980’s pastor whos had his/her church 30 years, who has a few old donors that are 80yr old keeping the lights on, but hasn’t had a new member in months. Oh and there are thousands of members that haven’t attended Sunday svc in years, but come on xmas eve. There is still an old time choir behind her singing hymns putting the congregation to sleep.

Meanwhile, dozens Elevation types of churches built all around us with modern displays, modern feel, this century multimedia, music equal to Coldplay on stage, social media, and logo/brand. Also throw in a young current leader who connects to THOUSANDS of millenials, gen x, gen y. And probably picked off alot of your members being enthused about something better.

I’m not an Elevation guy, but admire the growth and tactics to gain audience. The 49ers need a Furtick type leader. Especially at a school everyone knows the biggest statistic is young alumni. Its a sleeping giant.[/quote]Maybe we could even adopt the Elevation business model and move into a high income area.