They closed up Beta for the time being 
They closed up Beta for the time being :([/quote]
I know. Now what am I gonna do?
They closed up Beta for the time being :([/quote]
I know. Now what am I gonna do?[/quote]
Glad I got some games in last night.
Overall I don’t like SC2 as much as the original so far. The game seems far more about cheap tactics than it used to be.
It’s a player balance issue. Too many super elite players in the beta. They execute much better which makes the cheap tactics way more effective than they will be against an equal skill player.
I understand what you mean though. I got vocally frustrated once or twice. That’s when you turn it off and go find something else to do.
But Ive now derailed my own topic. ???
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:64, topic:23173”]It’s a player balance issue. Too many super elite players in the beta. They execute much better which makes the cheap tactics way more effective than they will be against an equal skill player.
I understand what you mean though. I got vocally frustrated once or twice. That’s when you turn it off and go find something else to do.
But Ive now derailed my own topic. ???[/quote]
Terrans still way too strong and Reapers are annoying/cheap.
[quote=“Savio, post:65, topic:23173”][quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:64, topic:23173”]It’s a player balance issue. Too many super elite players in the beta. They execute much better which makes the cheap tactics way more effective than they will be against an equal skill player.
I understand what you mean though. I got vocally frustrated once or twice. That’s when you turn it off and go find something else to do.
But Ive now derailed my own topic. ???[/quote]
Terrans still way too strong and Reapers are annoying/cheap.[/quote]
There are a ton of super elite players on the beta but it’s more than that. Because we’ve had to get reranked several times I’ve actually played in several leagues and the story is the same in each. Terrans are too strong out out of the gate. They require way more counter strategy than anything did in SC1. You’re either going to get hit with reapers or have to defend a maurader/marine push. If you don’t scout well against them as a toss or zerg player you are going to lose.
Reapers in particular are going to keep a lot of noobs away from the game. While it’s funny to watch a reaper shred an entire army of zealots, how do I get new players into the game if that’s what they can expect?
Hope you guys dont mind - since I threadjacked my own thread (doh), I thought I’d move these posts over where they belonged.
You guys are entirely right about Terrans. Reavers are just too damn fast to deal with. Zealots are useless against them until you get the charge ability, and that takes too long compared to how fast reavers can be mass produced. I also think that Dark Templar are tremenndously OP given how they neutered Zerg detection. Isnt the base damage on DT’s 55? That’s harder than a siege tank, isn’t it?
Zerg speedlings are insane too. At least it’s a boom or bust strat, on a big map anyway. On a small map, you can just pump wave after wave and it’s impossible to deal with due to the inevitable production losses as they take down workers. With the best build, including the queen prdouction acceleration, I can churn out about 30 speed boosted 'lings in a suprisingly fast time frame.
BTW, Terran is too offesnive now and their defense sucks without tanks and the building armor boost. bunkers are a joke. so much more economical and effective to mass M&M’s. I dont even bother with medvacs. Units are too cheap to make.
What people forget though is that SC1 was horribly inbalanced to start with. The whole point of BW was to correct the inbalances. The funny part was all the people who quit playing because they “ruined the game” with BW (translated " I can no longer exploit mass mutas on Protoss, etc - dont ask me to fight a fair fight!)
I think, in the end, production costs/times on everything are gonna come down to compensate. Then it’s gonna become even more of a hotkey twitchfest. Too bad.
I’ll still play in hopes that they balance it out the right way. I’m too much of a fan.
we’re going to have to link up after Beta is back up. Get a niner nation FFA or 3 vs others going…
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:67, topic:23173”]Hope you guys dont mind - since I threadjacked my own thread (doh), I thought I’d move these posts over where they belonged.
You guys are entirely right about Terrans. Reavers are just too damn fast to deal with. Zealots are useless against them until you get the charge ability, and that takes too long compared to how fast reavers can be mass produced. I also think that Dark Templar are tremenndously OP given how they neutered Zerg detection. Isnt the base damage on DT’s 55? That’s harder than a siege tank, isn’t it?
Zerg speedlings are insane too. At least it’s a boom or bust strat, on a big map anyway. On a small map, you can just pump wave after wave and it’s impossible to deal with due to the inevitable production losses as they take down workers. With the best build, including the queen prdouction acceleration, I can churn out about 30 speed boosted 'lings in a suprisingly fast time frame.
BTW, Terran is too offesnive now and their defense sucks without tanks and the building armor boost. bunkers are a joke. so much more economical and effective to mass M&M’s. I dont even bother with medvacs. Units are too cheap to make.
What people forget though is that SC1 was horribly inbalanced to start with. The whole point of BW was to correct the inbalances. The funny part was all the people who quit playing because they “ruined the game” with BW (translated " I can no longer exploit mass mutas on Protoss, etc - dont ask me to fight a fair fight!)
I think, in the end, production costs/times on everything are gonna come down to compensate. Then it’s gonna become even more of a hotkey twitchfest. Too bad.
I’ll still play in hopes that they balance it out the right way. I’m too much of a fan.[/quote]
It’s gotten to a point where with every race, you can build two types of units, make mass quantities and finish your opponent. 90% of the games I play, no one ever creates air.
I remember in SC1/BW, there could be games that last well over 30 minutes. The games I’m playing in BETA are avg 15-20 minutes.
yeah, the game is an extreme form of rock paper scissors. you pick one and just mass produce it and thats it.
I good example are infestors. Have you actually played a game where anyone used them? I haevn’t. I’ve seen vids of really good players using them in 1v1s, but that’s it. They are a ridiculously powerful micro’d unit, but it’s just easier and just as effective to just make stupid amounts of tier 1 zerg units, so why bother?
Every race is that way.
I do think terran is OP, but I have a hard time relating because I’m just not very good with them. I keep wanting to just mass vikings which is such a noob strategy.
My friend suggested that the reason Tier 1 massing is so effective is that 95% of the player base doesn’t know how to use the micro units like sentries, etc. he may have a point. That forcefield is nasty.
[quote=“Savio, post:69, topic:23173”]It’s gotten to a point where with every race, you can build two types of units, make mass quantities and finish your opponent. 90% of the games I play, no one ever creates air.
I remember in SC1/BW, there could be games that last well over 30 minutes. The games I’m playing in BETA are avg 15-20 minutes.[/quote]
My games might even be shorter than that. No one used advanced air for sure. I do miss the old games where you’d roll out cruiser fleets. Now no one gets past voids or mutas.
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:70, topic:23173”]yeah, the game is an extreme form of rock paper scissors. you pick one and just mass produce it and thats it.
I good example are infestors. Have you actually played a game where anyone used them? I haevn’t. I’ve seen vids of really good players using them in 1v1s, but that’s it. They are a ridiculously powerful micro’d unit, but it’s just easier and just as effective to just make stupid amounts of tier 1 zerg units, so why bother?
Every race is that way.
I do think terran is OP, but I have a hard time relating because I’m just not very good with them. I keep wanting to just mass vikings which is such a noob strategy.
My friend suggested that the reason Tier 1 massing is so effective is that 95% of the player base doesn’t know how to use the micro units like sentries, etc. he may have a point. That forcefield is nasty.[/quote]
I disagree that most players can’t micro. As you said, the guys playing the beta are some of the best in the world. I think it’s more that that massing tier 1 units is just so effective. I lost a 2 v 2 game the other day where the two terran teams did nothing but mass marines. I couldn’t get the collasuses out fast enough to counter. In my six or so years playing SC1 I never lost a game where the players did nothing but mass their most basic unit.
I guess what Im trying to say is that Blizz thinks some of those micro-heavy units are the answer, and you’re saying they aren’t. tier 1 units are just too cheap, fast & durable. I can probably be persuaded to your side. I’m still overwhlemed with all the new units and trying to learn how to use them, so I don’t think I’m a good judge of the game.
But yeah - if charge is supposed to be the protoss counter to reapers, it’s too slow to get to be effective, and if Collossi (?!) are the counter to mass tier 1, then it’s way too late in the game to be effective.
I actuallys tarted using DTs for base defense as protoss. It’s a bit of a hail mary, but at least you have some shot.
I guess what Im trying to say is that Blizz thinks some of those micro-heavy units are the answer, and you’re saying they aren’t. tier 1 units are just too cheap, fast & durable. I can probably be persuaded to your side. I’m still overwhlemed with all the new units and trying to learn how to use them, so I don’t think I’m a good judge of the game.
But yeah - if charge is supposed to be the protoss counter to reapers, it’s too slow to get to be effective, and if Collossi (?!) are the counter to mass tier 1, then it’s way too late in the game to be effective.
I actuallys tarted using DTs for base defense as protoss. It’s a bit of a hail mary, but at least you have some shot.[/quote]
Stalkers can also be a counter to reapers. It still takes longer to get to stalkers than reapers and if you go straight to that build you leave yourself susceptible to other rushes.
I’ve found that DTs are very effective against bad players or to occasionally catch good players by surprise.
I’m a big fan of the stalkers blink ability. Pretty much use stalkers and colossi (I suppose that is the correct spelling) as my two units of choice to mass.
The ability to blink up and down terrain levels is way way more important than any other use. It didn’t dawn on me until I was playing that citadel map and my opponent blinked up on the terrace and wiped out my expansion then blinked back down when help finally arrived. He used the defensive terrain against me. Boy, did that suck.
Also, i wish I had known that Nydus doesnt need creep, just a view of the spot… I believe you can have a terran teammate scan a base and pop up in the peon line. that’s just not fair.
Yep the stalkers blink up and the colossi simply walk up. Colossi are also a solid siege unit so even if he has some defensive structures around his minerals you can knock them out with no damage taken. No one goes air as Savio pointed out, so this combo owns most games especially since you just wreck their economy. Even if he has light air the stalkers will take them out with decent micro.
Add that to the list of cheap stuff in the game.
As annoyed as I’ve gotten at the game recently, I’d like them to go ahead and get the beta backup. Besides, there aren’t any MW2 campers in SC2.
Is there gonna be another beta before release?
I actually watched some of the replays of Sen vs TheLittleOne. I had to shut that annoying announcer guy off, and I fast forwarded to the good parts.
I wish I could micro & scout like that Sen guy (he’s ridiculous), and I’m dying to play Terran as heavy mech like TLO did. That looks fun. I gotta learn to use hellions better.
There is supposed to be but as we get closer to the release date…
Random off topic question: Koreans are clearly the best SC players in the world. I also play a lot of Super Street Fighter IV where the Japanese are considered the best in the world. Are US players the best in the world at FPS or do the Asians lay claim to that as well?
Phase 2 is starting real soon. Just downloaded patch 16. May start tonight.