If you look at several of the teams in the tourney, the talent is not a whole lot better than ours, but the teams have players that are Jr/Sr that have played in the system and together for 3-4 yrs. We have JUCOâs and no four yr players. Think back to CW, Eddie, and Jobey, all were four yr players.
[QUOTE=NinerAdvocate;224990]Since you donât want a serious answer, why ask that question?[/QUOTE]
Uh huh. Thatâs what I thought.
[QUOTE=woodniner;224994]If you look at several of the teams in the tourney, the talent is not a whole lot better than ours, [/QUOTE]
what teams?
Out of 320+ D1 schools, we finished with an RPI of 140-something. Iâd say- that is about where we rank from a physical talent perspective too. Very avg athletes.
I donât know how old you are, but if you ever saw Charles Hayward, Jarvis, Galen Young, Kelvin PriceâŚthose are legit D1 athletes. Not what we had this year.
I have been around since the Hal Wiesal days, and have seen better players than this year, but we still had DA, Leemire, and EJ which are D1 players. We still need four year players to make a difference.
[QUOTE=NinerFan;225000]Uh huh. Thatâs what I thought.[/QUOTE]
What did you think? Do you have anythign to offer?
[QUOTE=woodniner;225011]I have been around since the Hal Wiesal days, and have seen better players than this year, but we still had DA, Leemire, and EJ which are D1 players.[/QUOTE]
Thereâs that ever popular âD1 playersâ phrase.
There are 336 D1 teams, with 13 scholarships per team, or a total of 4,368 D1 scholarships.
If you say a player is ânot a D1 playerâ then you mean that they are not among the best 4,368 college basketball players in the U.S.A.
Some of our departing players were subpar, but to say that there are over 4,000 current players better than them sounds ridiculous, and requires a level of substantiation that no one on this board can provide.
And Iâm sorry to use your post as an example woodniner, since you didnât specifically say that the rest of our guys âarenât D1 playersâ, but that phrase gets thrown around way too often on here. We have had some guys that arenât D1 players, but they havenât been on scholarship.
Stick with ânot A10 caliberâ, or not high-major or mid-major caliber. It sounds a lot less ridiculous, and in some cases (I donât want to name names from our recent rosters), entirely plausible.
I believe to have a really strong team you much have at least 3 all conference level(top 15 in your league) players on your roster to go along with a decent supporting cast. When I look back a couple years ago when we had Eddie, Brenden and Curtis, I feel like we had that and that team did great things and should have done greater things.
When I look at this years core of Lee, DA and EJ, I think on paper that is a nucleus that should be a NIT team at worst. Where this team failed was a terrible supporting cast and I think the coaches were never really able to get this team to buy into what they wanted to do.
The scary part is where are our top 3 player of the future??? We have one more year with Lee, thank God, but for every game Lee lights it up for us he has a game where he is non-existant. The only chance for the other 2 come out of the group of Gerrity, Jones, Wilderness and Dewhurst. And realistically the last 3 are 2 year from being all conference level player.
But yes, our talent level is way behind and the only people you can blame for that is the coaches, but in their defense they are trying to come to a gun fight with a slingshot.
Next year will be scary, hopefully they will grow up and jell quicklyâŚ
This is bares reposting:
[QUOTE]I was doing some research yesterday looking at Bobbyâs recruiting classes and there is a very disturbing trend. He is suffering from trying to go for the quite fix with juco players to sustain success, rather than building the program through 4 year players he and the staff could develop. It is remarkable the number of players who never showed up or the juco players who never really contributed much. To me you bring in a Juco if he can help you with a short term need and if that Juco is ready to come in immediately and have an impact. As you will see from the list below, our latest Jucos donât fit that bill.
2002
DeAngelo Alexander SG-6-5 210-Midwest City, OK - 2yr player,solidcontributer
Tyler Best PF-6-9 220 - Lafeyette, IN- Transferred never contributed
Curtis Withers PF-6-7 230 - Charlotte, NC- 4 yr Star for us.
2003
Martin Iti C 6-11 230 -Australia, OU- Transferred, small contributor
C.J. Pigford PF 6-6 230 -East Arcadia, NC- Kicked off team, no contribution
Dedric Spooner PF 6-8 235 -Milwaukee, WI- Never Shown up
Marcus Bennett PG 6-2 185 - Detroit, MI- Screwed by NCAA, minimal contrib
2004
E.J. Drayton PF 6-8 215-Charlotte, NC- 2yr player, solid contributor
Leemire Goldwire PG 6-0 170-Palm Beach, FL- 4 year player, major contributor
Chris Nance PF 6-7 252 -Ft. Lauderdale, FL- 2yr player, fair contributor
Jerrel Lewis- PG 6-0 192 - 4yr player, no contributions, needs to transfer
2005
Antwon Coleman C 6-7 285 - Great Falls, SC- 2yr player, minimal contributor
Jerell Jamison SG 6-6 215 - Cayce, SC- 2yr player, minimal contributor
Mitch Mullis PF 6-7 230 - Laurinburg, NC- Never showed up
Courtney Williams PF 6-9 235 - Detroit, MI- 2yr player, minimal contributor
2006
Ian Andersen SG 6-4 180-Portland, OR- 4 yr player
David Booker SF 6-7 200 - Moss Point, MS- 4yr player
Charles Dewhurst SF 6-5 175 - Charlotte, NC- 4yr player
Phil Jones C 6-10 260 - Brooklyn, NY- 4yr player
Sean Phaler PF 6-9 195 - Anaheim Hills, CA- 2yr player, minimal contributor
AnâJuan Wilderness SF 6-6 210 -Dunwoody, GA- 4yr player
Carlos Williams PG 6-1 185 -Louisville, KY- 2yr player, fair contributor
2007
Gaby Ngoundgo PF 6-7 235 - Little Rock, AR- 4yr player
Javarris Barnett SG 6-6 180 - Charlotte, NC- 4yr player
Mike Gerrity PG 6-1 175- Transfer Pepperdine- 2.5yr player
So from 2002 to 2005 we had a grand total of TWO 4yr players, that have contributed to the program. That is a recipe for the disaster we are now experiencing. The staff obviously recognizes the problem and have made efforts with the last 2 classes to correct it. Unfortunately, we will not see those results until at least the 2008 season.[/QUOTE]
Eric Maynor [B]>[/B] Carlos Williams x (Jerrel Lewis + Mich Baldwin)
I agree Jimmyhat with the three all confernece type players. I just think we have finally realized that we cannot give plugging holes with JUCOâs and hope they work out as this is a bandaid. We are now paying for all the JUCO while turning to 4 year players, but for this past year and at least next year, we are going to have big issues.
I think our problem is we have a lot of complimentary type players and never land the âgo to guyâ we need. I thought DA could have been that but I was totally unimpressed with his game even when his numbers were good.
As far as the D1 statements, I usually only think of the top 100 teams in the country when this type of statement is made since there is a lot of differences in programs and what their competitive focus or goal actually is. I think teams that are seeded 11 or higher have much better âbasketball athletesâ than we do.
When someone mentions the coach is in charge of recruiting and is responsile for the players we have I only partly agree. What about the Athletic Department and overall administartion? What is their commitment to winning and funding that type of winning program? What about the budget the coaches have to work with? Someone mentioned Calipari and I agee he is a great salesman but his budget is set for a top 10 program and he is able to hire assistants and recruit that way. The only way to have the program we want is money. We need to be better funded (plain and simple) to compete.
Now I know someone will mention Winthrop and Davidson and I agree their programs are ahead of ours right now and they do more with less but I do not strive or want to follow Davidson or Winthropâs lead. I want to be at a point where it is a complete shock and upset if they beat us and it is splattered all over The Observer on front page headlines.
[QUOTE=TheShowDawg;225028]
When someone mentions the coach is in charge of recruiting and is responsile for the players we have I only partly agree. What about the Athletic Department and overall administartion? What is their commitment to winning and funding that type of winning program? What about the budget the coaches have to work with? Someone mentioned Calipari and I agee he is a great salesman but his budget is set for a top 10 program and he is able to hire assistants and recruit that way. The only way to have the program we want is money. We need to be better funded (plain and simple) to compete.
Now I know someone will mention Winthrop and Davidson and I agree their programs are ahead of ours right now and they do more with less but I do not strive or want to follow Davidson or Winthropâs lead. I want to be at a point where it is a complete shock and upset if they beat us and it is splattered all over The Observer on front page headlines.[/QUOTE]
interesting take.
IMO, you should perform equally or BETTER to your peer teams that have equal resources and opportunities. We have not done that for some time now. Bobby outperformed equally resourced programs and even bigger programs at the beginning of his tenure. Now programs that are far less resourced are handing it to us this year- and last.
Calapari is working with high attendance, ie, more money, NBA arena with a city environment, Memphis is a Bball city (sorry Charlotte is not a bball city), big local talent pool, football team in itâs athletic department, big bball tradition.
Point is you canât really compare what we have and what they have. Environment is much closer to a Lousiville, Georgia Tech than it is what we have here at Charlotte.
We could get there, but a long way to go, and not something a coach can fix on his own, are we expecting the coach to fix those things.
[QUOTE=metro;225034]interesting take.
IMO, you should perform equally or BETTER to your peer teams that have equal resources and opportunities. We have not done that for some time now. Bobby outperformed equally resourced programs and even bigger programs at the beginning of his tenure. Now programs that are far less resourced are handing it to us this year- and last.[/QUOTE]
It appears your âsome time nowâ equates to this year and last. 19 and 14 games seasons are considered terrible years, I guess. I agree, we under-performed and itâs been UGLY at timesâŚbut Bobby has won throughout his tenure, not just the beginning.
VT made the NCAA tournament this year for the 1st time in 10 years.
[QUOTE=ninerID;225026]Eric Maynor [B]>[/B] Carlos Williams x (Jerrel Lewis + Mich Baldwin)[/QUOTE]
Did we recruit this kid?
[QUOTE=amnesiac;225035]Calapari is working with high attendance, ie, more money, NBA arena with a city environment, Memphis is a Bball city (sorry Charlotte is not a bball city), big local talent pool, football team in itâs athletic department, big bball tradition.
Point is you canât really compare what we have and what they have. Environment is much closer to a Lousiville, Georgia Tech than it is what we have here at Charlotte.
We could get there, but a long way to go, and not something a coach can fix on his own, are we expecting the coach to fix those things.[/QUOTE]
charlotte is not a basketball town?
we have no talent pool?
you need an NBA arena?
he competes in the middle of SEC country, just like we do in the ACC.
what about at UMASS? He kicked butt there too.
Calamari gets it done. Memphis was a doormat before he got there.
VT made the NCAA tournament this year for the 1st time in 10 years.
Do you honestly think VT gives a ratâs ass about basketball? Have you ever been to a football game in Blacksburg? Take a drive up there sometime in the fall and let me know what that school, alumni base and community thinks about basketball. Sure, itâs nice when one of your other programs do well but if VT never won another basketball game, no one would complain because itâs all about the pigskin up there. We donât have another dominant program to fall back on. Basketball is it for us. Try another example other than VT if youâre hoping to make everyone feel better about our program over the last few years.
[QUOTE=LeftyNiner;225037]It appears your âsome time nowâ equates to this year and last. 19 and 14 games seasons are considered terrible years, I guess. I agree, we under-performed and itâs been UGLY at timesâŚbut Bobby has won throughout his tenure, not just the beginning.
VT made the NCAA tournament this year for the 1st time in 10 years.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs funny, because most casual basketball fans around here will tell you VT has been to the tourney much more than we have in the past 10 years.
i agree that our team this year was not as talented as in years past and i do think our level of talent will improve next year with our freshmen class at least in terms of size and athletism. do you think vcu has more talent than us. they are well coached. their coach gets the most out of them. their staff makes them better.
[QUOTE=LeftyNiner;225037]It appears your âsome time nowâ equates to this year and last. 19 and 14 games seasons are considered terrible years, I guess. I agree, we under-performed and itâs been UGLY at timesâŚbut Bobby has won throughout his tenure, not just the beginning.
VT made the NCAA tournament this year for the 1st time in 10 years.[/QUOTE]
Lefty, be honest and realistic for a moment. What is our record gonna be next year? 15 wins? I would have no problem (neither would anyone) if this year was a rebuilding year, but it wasnât. Next year is the rebuilding year. How many years has Lutz succeeded with his own recruits? Once? Rodneyâs team?
when is enough, enough? (ie: relying on a star 2 gaurd/ no D)
BTW, I am all for Lutz coaching next year. I like him, but I think heâs lost it. He seems totally lost in his interviews like he has no clue why kids canât execute. I hope he can bring some life back to the program next year. If they play hard and play âproper basketballâ and are .500, it may be enough for us to hope he can bring it back. These questions are healthy.
VT?? youâre right, and they got a new coach.