The amount that I have seen the people on this board suggesting is ridiculous unless you want to stay in D1-AA forever and ultimately join the Southern Conference during the next realignment. We have to spend the big bucks if we are really trying to launch a football program that is going to get us into a BCS conference. I got news for you folks, conferences like the SEC and the Big East donât want teams with crap for facilities.
The worst thing that could happen to this AD is to start a football program that will end up being in D1-AA forever. That situation would take money away from the rest of our sports and we wouldnât be making any profit on football. App State is the exception not the rule when it comes to D1-AA success, that is why they are the only team who anybody on a national level talks about in D1-AA. [B]The best thing for this school is to start a football team, sparing no expense and after a few years join D1 and get into a BCS conference. [/B]
When we first get D1-AA football here, it will get plenty of support, because it will be new and there will have been years of press leading up to it. After a couple years people in the community will tire of the team if we arenât doing things on a national level. They will stay ACC fans and root on their Heels. We have to set our eyes on the BCS, that is where the money is. That is where our future is.
I think we should be a lot more optimistic than we are being. The reason everyone is so bummed is that they are expecting football to never happen. So now they are lowering their standards of what they want and saying that we should be in D1-AA for longer. Basically, I donât think that has ever been or will ever be an option. [B]I hope and I believe that we will be playing BCS football ten years from now![/B]
However, the one wildcard in whatever form of football may/may exist now or in the future is what kind of corporate support exists AND how we (the University) attempt to obtain it.
There are 2 issues on that subject:
Does money exist? If so, how much can be generated?
Are the University representatives smart enough to maximize what is available?
Based on what I know right now, there is no doubt in my mind that available money exists in the Charlotte business community. Is there as much now as there was a year ago or 5 years ago or 10 years from now? I have no idea. But there are funds to be had that if people are approached properly, they would be willing to connect them to football and the University.
As far as my impression of issue #2, I hope Iâm wrong but CHPâs comments to date on the subject lead me to think we (the University) will find a way to botch this.
Instead of mailing letters to key businesses, he should (or better yet, he should assign someone) be out beating on doors with boxes of Omaha Steaks in hand just for people who listen to him.
At some point it will be a D1 program. But until we figure out how many $$$ exists right now, how can someone define an effective schedule to go D1?
i agree that d1-a should be the ultimate goal. however, i think we will never get football if the expectation is we have to come out of the gate with d1-a facilities and money. my main concern now is that phil is using d1-a numbers to make the costs seem larger than they have to be to get a team off the ground. if we go out there beating the drum that it is d1-a or nothingâŚweâll could very well get nothing. it is a lot easier to build on a d1-aa team than on no team at all.
The committee used I-A numbers because that was the stated goal. I donât blame Dubois for using the same numbers. Heâs not making them up, theyâre in the report.
i agree that d1-a should be the ultimate goal. however, i think we will never get football if the expectation is we have to come out of the gate with d1-a facilities and money. my main concern now is that phil is using d1-a numbers to make the costs seem larger than they have to be to get a team off the ground. if we go out there beating the drum that it is d1-a or nothing...we'll could very well get nothing. it is a lot easier to build on a d1-aa team than on no team at all.
Here is why youâre wrong; if we put a bunch of money into d1-aa facilities now it will be a waste of money if we are planning to be d1-a, because then we will have to upgrade the facilities again and it will cost just as much to do that as it would to start from scratch which is what we are doing now.
[QUOTE=49timesthelovin;324340]Here is why youâre wrong; if we put a bunch of money into d1-aa facilities now it will be a waste of money if we are planning to be d1-a, because then we will have to upgrade the facilities again and it will cost just as much to do that as it would to start from scratch which is what we are doing now.[/QUOTE]
However, by building less-expensive facilities that can then be expanded at a later date, would have a lower cost upfront. The future costs of expansion would hopefully be offset by the projected student body growth, increased giving etc etc etc.
There are very few, if any, D1-A stadiums that were build exactly as they are today. Most are expanded over and over again to get where they are today. I have to agree with Press - we need to approach this as a long-term project and committment to make it work. We cannot put all of our focus on D1-A costs when we donât even have a team to field at any level.
[QUOTE=Mike_Persinger;324339]The committee used I-A numbers because that was the stated goal. I donât blame Dubois for using the same numbers. Heâs not making them up, theyâre in the report.[/QUOTE]
Yes but if these costs are presented as âday one expensesâ then that would be incorrect. We cannot expect the general public to be able to grasp the timeframe of thes costs if he and the media only focuses on the total number. Itâs like the student fee increase. While the number is high, our OVERALL fees are still in line with the rest of the UNC System schools.
[B]The committee used I-A numbers because that was the stated goal[/B]. I don't blame Dubois for using the same numbers. He's not making them up, they're in the report.
Good lord Mike, the committe did what CHP told them to do (ie; the âstated goalâ was stated by CHP), not the other way around.
But the committee followed the stated goals, wherever they came from (Judy?) and said go, meaning they thought the numbers were workable. If they didnât think that, why did they not come back with a I-AA recommendation, a shorter timeframe, etc.?
But the committee followed the stated goals, wherever they came from (Judy?) and said go, meaning they thought the numbers were workable. If they didn't think that, why did they not come back with a I-AA recommendation, a shorter timeframe, etc.?
that is a fair point. d1-a football has been the stated goal since woodward. nevertheless, i take issue with the d1-a or nothing approach. if i were king of the world, and clearly iâm not, the questions i would approach the situation with are what does it take to get a credible d1-aa program off of the ground and what are the steps and related costs of moving that program to d1-a?
Here is why you're wrong; if we put a bunch of money into d1-aa facilities now it will be a waste of money if we are planning to be d1-a, because then we will have to upgrade the facilities again and it will cost just as much to do that as it would to start from scratch which is what we are doing now.
the sac was built knowing that the university would eventually need additional workout and practice facilities for athletes and that as the student population increased that a full recreation center would be needed. however, to build all of those facilities along with the arena would have been cost prohibitive at the time. yeah, had they built all of those facilities back then they would have cost less to build than they would if they were built today. if folks had said back then, it is all of these facilities or nothingâŚnothing would have been built. they didnât, and we had to add the sac expansion and currently there are discussions for a massive new recreation facility for students. in the meantime, we have gotten to enjoy the new arena and students got new workout rooms and recreational facilities they desperately needed. i wouldnât call that a waste
my point is that we have to make due with the resources we currently have. yes, if we build d1-aa facilities, they will need to be expanded before moving to d1-a, but at least while those additional facilities are being built we can watch our 49ers playing football instead of wishing we had a team. also, like the sac expansion, because we donât build it today doesnât mean we canât plan for those buildings in the future.
[QUOTE=49erPress;324370]the sac was built knowing that the university would eventually need additional workout and practice facilities for athletes and that as the student population increased that a full recreation center would be needed. however, to build all of those facilities along with the arena would have been cost prohibitive at the time. yeah, had they built all of those facilities at that time they would have cost less to build then they would if they were built today. if folks had said back then, it is all of these facilities or nothingâŚnothing would have been built. they didnât, and we had to add the sac expansion and currently there are discussions for a massive new recreation facility for students. my point is that we have to make due with the resources we currently have. yes, if we build d1-aa facilities, they will need to be expanded before moving to d1-a, but at least while those additional facilities are being built we can watch our 49ers playing football. also, like the sac expansion, because we donât build it today doesnât mean we can plan for those buildings in the future.[/QUOTE]
the sac was built knowing that the university would eventually need additional workout and practice facilities for athletes and that as the student population increased that a full recreation center would be needed. however, to build all of those facilities along with the arena would have been cost prohibitive at the time. yeah, had they built all of those facilities at that time they would have cost less to build then they would if they were built today. if folks had said back then, it is all of these facilities or nothing...nothing would have been built. they didn't, and we had to add the sac expansion and currently there are discussions for a massive new recreation facility for students. my point is that we have to make due with the resources we currently have. yes, if we build d1-aa facilities, they will need to be expanded before moving to d1-a, but at least while those additional facilities are being built we can watch our 49ers playing football. also, like the sac expansion, because we don't build it today doesn't mean we can plan for those buildings in the future.
Here is where the parallel dies. The cost is astronomically different. It wasnât wasting money to build the SAC, we still use everything that was built there, it was just built onto over the years. You canât do that with football facilities. Going from having a crappy D1-AA facility to a great D1-A is just as expensive as starting the D1-A from scratch. Itâs not a matter of expanding it. You have to completely start over, if you donât set it up to be expanded with D1-A in mind. Plus the longer we are in D1-AA the longer we will be losing money and the longer that we will not be a BCS school.
Here is where the parallel dies. The cost is astronomically different. It wasn't wasting money to build the SAC, we still use everything that was built there, it was just built onto over the years. You can't do that with football facilities. Going from having a crappy D1-AA facility to a great D1-A is just as expensive as starting the D1-A from scratch. It's not a matter of expanding it. You have to completely start over. Plus the longer we are in D1-AA the longer we will be losing money and the longer that we will not be a BCS school.
your assumption is that by being a bcs school we will automatically take in more money than it costs to compete at that level. one day that will be the case, but it may take some years to get there.
also, why canât football facilities be expanded? i remember going to see football games as a kid at florida and virginia tech, all of those stadiums have been added to continually without much of an issue. take a look at chapel hill, i remember when they had metal bleachers at one end. also, the building the bookstore on campus is in was built for a second story to eventually be added. if we are expected to come out in the first few years with facilities that rival any of the sec schools, weâll never have football. letâs get a team on the field and work our way up from there.
your assumption is that by being a bcs school we will automatically take in more money than it costs to compete at that level. one day that will be the case, but it may take some years to get there.
also, why canât football facilities be expanded? i remember going to see football games as a kid at florida and virginia tech, all of those stadiums have been added to continually without much of an issue. take a look at chapel hill, i remember when they had metal bleachers at one end. also, the building the bookstore on campus is in was built for a second story to eventually be added. if we are expected to come out in the first few years with facilities that rival any of the sec schools, weâll never have football. letâs get a team on the field and work our way up from there.
BCS schools do make money.
And those schools are what? BCS schools.
The longer we stay in D-1AA the more money we will lose regardless of facilities. Some schools can get away with that, we canât. The whole reason for football isnât just to have football. It is to further our entire athletic department and school. A D-1AA team doesnât help us get into a better conference, and it takes money away from the rest of the sports in the process. It would kill our athletic department. We have to move to D-1A as quickly as possible.
press,
no offense man, but just a couple weeks ago you didnât know the difference between D1AA football and DII, now you are making statements on P/L for BCS.
[U]
no BCS programs lose money[/U] from the big 6. It automatically entitles you to an extra 4-7m annually.
The longer we stay in D-1AA the more money we will lose regardless of facilities. Some schools can get away with that, we can't. The whole reason for football isn't just to have football. It is to further our entire athletic department and school. A D-1AA team doesn't help us get into a better conference, and it takes money away from the rest of the sports in the process. It would kill our athletic department. We have to move to D-1A as quickly as possible.
Funny that the report the committee released and CHPâs showed us making a higher profit at 1-AA then 1-A. 1-A you could make more but you can manage your costs more effectively at the second level.
As an architect, it wouldnât be difficult to build facilities for a 1-AA program with the ability to expand to 1-A. A good amount of the program (offices, press rooms, etc.) is going to be static across the board, the biggest thing that would change would be some sizes and the quality, which can be addressed when the move is made (i.e. weight rooms, film rooms, locker rooms, etc.). Even then, some of the older stuff can be used as its original design intended or can be renovated to meet another need. The biggest thing is that these ideas are present when the first go around is built, meaning there is land to expand as well as a master plan that already instructs how it would occur, rather than building something and then paying more for someone to come in to figure out how to make it work.
Funny that the report the committee released and CHP's showed us making a higher profit at 1-AA then 1-A. 1-A you could make more but you can manage your costs more effectively at the second level.
As an architect, it wouldnât be difficult to build facilities for a 1-AA program with the ability to expand to 1-A. A good amount of the program (offices, press rooms, etc.) is going to be static across the board, the biggest thing that would change would be some sizes and the quality, which can be addressed when the move is made (i.e. weight rooms, film rooms, locker rooms, etc.). Even then, some of the older stuff can be used as its original design intended or can be renovated to meet another need. The biggest thing is that these ideas are present when the first go around is built, meaning there is land to expand as well as a master plan that already instructs how it would occur, rather than building something and then paying more for someone to come in to figure out how to make it work.
Is that based on the amount of money you make from licensing products, television contracts, and sponsorship? Plus the fact that the basketball team will also make more money being in a BCS league.
Here is why you're wrong; if we put a bunch of money into d1-aa facilities now it will be a waste of money if we are planning to be d1-a, because then we will have to upgrade the facilities again and it will cost just as much to do that as it would to start from scratch which is what we are doing now.
The problem is we currently can not afford D1A. I think everybody would like for us to snap our fingers and say, âOk, now I would like to play football in a BCS leagueâ. Unless you believe Dubois has the ability to find a huge corporate sponsor or to get approval for bonds from the UNC system, we simply can not afford Div1A. I think if you really believe its got to be Div1A or nothing, than we will not get football.
Have you seen the budget of our basketball program as compared to other schools? We have one of the lowest budgets in the a10. Our total athletics budget is less than Louisvilleâs basketball budget.
I have a hard time beliving the athletic department is going to go bells and whistles on football, when its been bare bones with basketball.