2-3 zone

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
1

I am no college coach…but my dad was so I will go ahead and rip Lutz tonight for what I feel was one of the worst coaching jobs I have seen yet. Complete confusion with absolutely no adjustment. Stunning really.

Here is my problem with Bobby tonight…

We are gonna face this 2-3 zone all season so he better get used to it, however he seems to have no clue how to attack it.

Contrary to popular beleif, you don’t have to “shoot a team out of a zone”, you attack it an make it respond and collapse. We did none of that.

Try entering the ball in the high post. We did ONCE to Withers and he scored and got fouled. A couple of times we hit the high post to Nance but he is the wrong guy to get it to because he is no threat there. You screen a guy like Curt into the high post, let the zone collapse on him and run the offense from there.

The other way is to drive into gaps, draw defenders and move the ball. I listened to idiots behind me screaming for our players to “drive to the basket” all night. That won’t happen in a 2-3 but you can put it on the floor, draw a defender, then move the ball. Draw and rotate. That’s it!

Beating a zone is all about making the zone move and react. We did none of that. Instead, once again, we stood around the 3 point line taking turns heaving 3-pointers up.

Shame on Lutz for once again having no clue how to negotiate a simple 2-3 zone.

The good news is he will have plenty of chances to try again as we will see it all season.

2

[QUOTE=49erpi;141000]I am no college coach…but my dad was so I will go ahead and rip Lutz tonight for what I feel was one of the worst coaching jobs I have seen yet. Complete confusion with absolutely no adjustment. Stunning really.

Here is my problem with Bobby tonight…

We are gonna face this 2-3 zone all season so he better get used to it, however he seems to have no clue how to attack it.

Contrary to popular beleif, you don’t have to “shoot a team out of a zone”, you attack it an make it respond and collapse. We did none of that.

Try entering the ball in the high post. We did ONCE to Withers and he scored and got fouled. A couple of times we hit the high post to Nance but he is the wrong guy to get it to because he is no threat there. You screen a guy like Curt into the high post, let the zone collapse on him and run the offense from there.

The other way is to drive into gaps, draw defenders and move the ball. I listened to idiots behind me screaming for our players to “drive to the basket” all night. That won’t happen in a 2-3 but you can put it on the floor, draw a defender, then move the ball. Draw and rotate. That’s it!

Beating a zone is all about making the zone move and react. We did none of that. Instead, once again, we stood around the 3 point line taking turns heaving 3-pointers up.

Shame on Lutz for once again having no clue how to negotiate a simple 2-3 zone.

The good news is he will have plenty of chances to try again as we will see it all season.[/QUOTE]

Well put. You sound like the coach that should have been on the floor tonight

3

It looks like we try to rotate the ball to make the zone react. We also seem to look for entry passes and angles but nothing ever materializes. We even flashed to the high post all night but it was never open…or the wrong guy was there…or we forced it and made a TO. The attempt to break down the zone appears to be there…it just doesn’t happen…then they get frustrated and take the first open look they get from the perimeter.

I don’t know if it’s coaching it, executing it or a little of both.

Personally, I think a lot of our problem is that we don’t move well without the ball.

To create entry passes and driving lanes within a zone, there has to be a lot of MEANINGFUL movement off the ball. Solid screens, strong post ups, quick flashes to the ball, etc. We just seem to go thru the motions and ultimately never get anywhere in attacking the zone.

I think we try to and want to attack the zone the right way…we just don’t do enough “off the ball” to make it happen.

Just an opinion.

4

The problem is that we really don’t have any players.

Withers is good and then it gets real bland.

We’ve got a bunch of guys that look good on paper but in reality are just bodies that were not good enough to go anywhere else.

Our team is a bunch of one tool players that, if capable of catching, handling the ball and shooting would be playing for Duke, Arizona or the like.

5

[QUOTE=49erpi;141000]I am no college coach…but my dad was so I will go ahead and rip Lutz tonight for what I feel was one of the worst coaching jobs I have seen yet. Complete confusion with absolutely no adjustment. Stunning really.

Here is my problem with Bobby tonight…

We are gonna face this 2-3 zone all season so he better get used to it, however he seems to have no clue how to attack it.

Contrary to popular beleif, you don’t have to “shoot a team out of a zone”, you attack it an make it respond and collapse. We did none of that.

Try entering the ball in the high post. We did ONCE to Withers and he scored and got fouled. A couple of times we hit the high post to Nance but he is the wrong guy to get it to because he is no threat there. You screen a guy like Curt into the high post, let the zone collapse on him and run the offense from there.

The other way is to drive into gaps, draw defenders and move the ball. I listened to idiots behind me screaming for our players to “drive to the basket” all night. That won’t happen in a 2-3 but you can put it on the floor, draw a defender, then move the ball. Draw and rotate. That’s it!

Beating a zone is all about making the zone move and react. We did none of that. Instead, once again, we stood around the 3 point line taking turns heaving 3-pointers up.

Shame on Lutz for once again having no clue how to negotiate a simple 2-3 zone.

The good news is he will have plenty of chances to try again as we will see it all season.[/QUOTE]

I don’t disagree that you have to go inside out to a degree to beat the zone, but the zone just gets packed further and further in when we shoot as bad as we did tonight. If I remember correctly, Curt fumbled the first two passes that we threw to him tonight. I love Curt, but I don’t understand how someone who rebounds so well can’t catch an entry pass consistantly without bobbling it. Curt made a great back-in and spin move in the 2nd half against the 7-footer. He made it quickly. He has to do that more often or he will be swarmed before he can get a shot or a pass away. All of Curt’s points, save two, came from inside the lane or at the free throw line. He’s got to hit that 10-15 foot jumper more consistantly to help open up the inside more for himself.

I thought we penetrated decent against the zone at times, but we didn’t force them out to the corners much. I don’t know if it would have mattered tonight with the way we shot, but very few times did we rotate the ball over to the corner and pull the forwards out of the middle.

[QUOTE]The other way is to drive into gaps, draw defenders and move the ball. I listened to idiots behind me screaming for our players to “drive to the basket” all night. That won’t happen in a 2-3 but you can put it on the floor, draw a defender, then move the ball. Draw and rotate. That’s it!
[/QUOTE]

Amen. You can’t run over 2-3 people just because you want to drive to the basket. You actually have to have a place to drive to. The zone seldom presents that, by design.

6

[QUOTE=49erpi;141014]The problem is that we really don’t have any players.

Withers is good and then it gets real bland.

We’ve got a bunch of guys that look good on paper but in reality are just bodies that were not good enough to go anywhere else.

Our team is a bunch of one tool players that, if capable of catching, handling the ball and shooting would be playing for Duke, Arizona or the like.[/QUOTE]

From what I’ve seen so far…I have to agree.

Which actually makes it tough to put it all on Lutz.

Face it…Lutz has been coaching for a long time…successfully. I’m sure he knows how to break down and attack a zone defense. So is it possible that the kids just can’t grasp how to do it or how to actually execute it in a game?

7

[QUOTE=KTown49er;141017]From what I’ve seen so far…I have to agree.

Which actually makes it tough to put it all on Lutz.

Face it…Lutz has been coaching for a long time…successfully. I’m sure he knows how to break down and attack a zone defense. So is it possible that the kids just can’t grasp how to do it or how to actually execute it in a game?[/QUOTE]

Who recruited those players?

8

[QUOTE=49erpi;141014]The problem is that we really don’t have any players.

Withers is good and then it gets real bland.

We’ve got a bunch of guys that look good on paper but in reality are just bodies that were not good enough to go anywhere else.

Our team is a bunch of one tool players that, if capable of catching, handling the ball and shooting would be playing for Duke, Arizona or the like.[/QUOTE]

I have been saying this for 2 years and I even said it out loud tonight. Please someone explain to me how Lutz is such a great recruiter with what I saw tonight?

9

[QUOTE=49erpi;141020]Who recruited those players?[/QUOTE]

I’ve asked chicks out on dates before because they look good.

I didn’t find out until they were in my house that they were idiots.

Sometimes something can look a lot better from a far until you take it home and try to live with it.

10

[QUOTE=KTown49er;141029]I’ve asked chicks out on dates before because they look good.

I didn’t find out until they were in my house that they were idiots.

Sometimes something can look a lot better from a far until you take it home and try to live with it.[/QUOTE]

Don’t lie. You never had a hot chick in your house.

11

[QUOTE=Powerbait;141030]Don’t lie. You never had a hot chick in your house.[/QUOTE]

OK…Busted.

But you still get the point…don’t you?

12

[QUOTE=KTown49er;141011]

Personally, I think a lot of our problem is that we don’t move well without the ball.

[/QUOTE]

I think you’re absolutely correct. I noticed the same thing. Quick passes combined wiith good movement away from the ball should get some open shots. We were doing neither, and the failure to do one can magnify the problems of the other.

Then of course, if we can’t hit it when we are open, that’s a different story.

13

When was the last time anyone saw a niner move without the ball?

14

[QUOTE=Powerbait;141030]Don’t lie. You never had a hot chick in your house.[/QUOTE]

That sh*t my friend was funny.

15

Nope, regardless of anyone else says, if you can’t shoot you can’t beat a zone. Period. You can do things to minimize the effect as PI says, but if you can’t shoot a zone beats you everytime.

BTW, we can’t shoot.

You know, I didn’t see us take a lot bad shots. We can’t shoot. it amazes me. I never thought I would see the day when Lutz didn’t have a bonifided shooter.

16

[QUOTE=49erpi;141036]When was the last time anyone saw a niner move without the ball?[/QUOTE]

That is one of the best setup lines ever. I cannot believe that no one took a cheapshot there.

I’ve said the same types of things you’re saying in this thread. I was desperately hoping that Lutz would try to change his coaching style some during the break between games. Hopes=dashed.

I think where I disagree with you PI is that I think Coleman is a pretty darn good player who is a ways from being in playing shape, and is still a coupla inches shorther than you’d like. But he can play the post, which is just weird to see on a Niners team. If Withers had his hands, he’d be unstoppable.

I’d also lay a lot of our struggles at Mitch’s feet. Either by design or due to ability, or both, he is incapable of beating the zone. I’m not saying that to get at you either, 'cause I know he’s your favorite. Sad thing is, we have no better option on the team and it’s doubtful Lutz would coach him to collapse the zone anyway.

So whaddya do? I have no idea.

17

I’m going to agree and disagree with this thread in the same post.

I agree with PI that their are certainly other ways to attack a zone, by using motion high post, flashes and dribble penetration. I do however think that Bobby tried to set these guys up in a position to do it. However the players did not execute. During the futile first half we rotated the ball, but way way way too slowly. Our guys let the zone recover than rotate it. They need to zip the ball around quicker without holding and looking, forcing the defense to over commit or wearing the defenders out. I fault the players but also Bobby for not stopping this when it started.

We opened the game trying to feed the high post to Curt, problem was that Miss St guarded it well and our guards tried to force silly passes that got deflected or stolen.

We missed a ton of wide open looks. In todays game of college basketball, if you can’t shoot the 3 point shot, you won’t have success. Not with an undersized lineup like ours. This team is build to spread the defense and hammer inside with Curt. We have the hammer, we just need some gunners.

Frustrating performance, but hey at least Bobbys defensive gameplan was solid.

18

If Goldwire or Alexander goes 5-12 from three, we win the game. They don’t stay in zone. One player makes the difference. Our guards are poor shooters. Simple.

Alsom we had several good looks from within the zone early and missed. Drayton had a 6 footer, Nance, Alexander all within 8 feet where the offense executed. Bennett broke down the zone, kicked to Goldwire wide open for three and clank. After that, it was ugly for 15 minutes before we finally scored again.

Defense was well executed!

Fowler’s article was very accurate.

19

[QUOTE=49erpi;141036]When was the last time anyone saw a niner move without the ball?[/QUOTE]

Tampa?

I was disgusted last year; I’ll just drink more this year and watch good teams play on TV.

20

[QUOTE=KTown49er;141029]I’ve asked chicks out on dates before because they look good.

I didn’t find out until they were in my house that they were idiots.

Sometimes something can look a lot better from a far until you take it home and try to live with it.[/QUOTE]

At least idiot hot chicks can score.