Basketball Culture of Losing

I regularly spend time on this board reading the thoughts and opinions of Niner Nation’s most passionate fans, as a guest. And while I often think that many of you:

  1. over-react to just about everything (thus my stage name)
  2. are overly critical of players, coaches and the AD (JHat’s recent PH rants, NWA re Judy, etc){btw, like u both}
  3. and generally over-value your personal cognitive abilities,
    I couldn’t agree more with the collective assessment of OUR basketball program.

I really like many of the pieces on this team.
*As much as PH can frustrate us, I want him on my team every day, twice on Sundays. Our opponents respect every part of his game except his 3 pt shooting. If he played for an opponent I would absolutely hate the kid. No greater compliment.
*I’m proud of TWill. Remember, he’s the guy who missed 4 or 5 FT’s at the end of a home game that could have salted away a victory against either GT or ClemPson. He’s worked on his game where he hasn’t been missing late FT’s for 2 years. Then when he missed one late against LaTech, you could tell it was killing him and I felt sorry for him instead of anger. I trust that kid to make late game FT’s. While I used to cringe every time he took one, he’s made his last 4 3 pointers. He’s at the end of his career and playing his best bball. Sure, I wish he were better, but the kid has come so far.
*Big Mike has come even further, I’m enjoying watching his growth. He still struggles against smaller athletes, still rushes his release on the way up instead of at the peak, is inconsistent and drives me crazy with his wrist flip FT motion. I wish he was more aggressive defensively and wouldn’t let guys back him down in the lane. But he is sooooo much better than where he came from. For those of you who insist that our coaching staff doesn’t develop players, please explain Mike’s growth.
*Willie, no excuse, WORK to make your F’in FT’s. Wish he elevated higher, wish he finished better, and wish he didn’t let his emotions take over. But love his passion and effort and want Willie on my team every time, just not on the court in the last 5 minutes of a tight game.
*BO is one of the most impressive kids you’ll ever meet. Wish the coaches had figured out that he was leaning to his left and shoulders were turned when he went thru his shooting slump, we could all see it. He brings a quickness we don’t otherwise have. I look forward to 2 more years.
*Sully, thanks for persevering. Hope he gets his confidence back.
*Big upside for the freshmen.

The coaches are good men, have re-engaged our former players, have built good rapport with the local HS programs and have many of the qualities we want in the leaders of our young men. And I’m proud of the quality of the kids the coaches have brought in. They’re going to class, we aren’t reading about what they’re doing off the court, I’m not embarrassed for the kids in post-game interviews, and can be proud of the young men they’re becoming. And I’m really proud of the way the kids on the team have stuck together through this season in spite of horribly underachieving. That is a tribute to both the players and the coaches.

We may not all agree, but I firmly believe there is enough talent on the team to be in the NCAA tournament. Sadly, we haven’t performed, so this is a moot point.

We can all picked out plays or statistics to tell our narrative after each loss. I’m guilty, I’ve done it at least 15 times this season. But it comes down to our inability to make winning plays in crunch time. Some of us place all of the blame the players, others on the coaches, and some of the blame trickles up to Judy. But nobody can deny the culture that has been created, a CULTURE OF LOSING.

Culture comes from the top and rests squarely on the shoulders of coach Major. I’ve seen worse Niner teams, we’ve had a lot less talented Niner players, we’ve had kids with poor character, and we’ve had worse Niner coaches. But today’s culture of losing rivals the Wissel years. I can hardly wait for a change.

I will be at the last two home games, thank TW and PH for what their contributions on Senior day, and I still hold out hope for a miracle finish for MY Charlotte 49ers. But, I’m looking forward to the new culture that will come with our new coaching staff. If you contribute any amount at all to the Athletic Foundation PLEASE be sure to share your thoughtful comments with Judy as soon as the season ends.

To my fellow Niner Nation, thank you for continuing to care. Go Niners!

I somewhat agree. I’ve more thought it as “we don’t know how to win” but Culture of Losing works all the same.

[quote=“knee not jerking, post:1, topic:29427”]I regularly spend time on this board reading the thoughts and opinions of Niner Nation’s most passionate fans, as a guest. And while I often think that many of you:

  1. over-react to just about everything (thus my stage name)
  2. are overly critical of players, coaches and the AD (JHat’s recent PH rants, NWA re Judy, etc){btw, like u both}
  3. and generally over-value your personal cognitive abilities,
    I couldn’t agree more with the collective assessment of OUR basketball program.

I really like many of the pieces on this team.
*As much as PH can frustrate us, I want him on my team every day, twice on Sundays. Our opponents respect every part of his game except his 3 pt shooting. If he played for an opponent I would absolutely hate the kid. No greater compliment.
*I’m proud of TWill. Remember, he’s the guy who missed 4 or 5 FT’s at the end of a home game that could have salted away a victory against either GT or ClemPson. He’s worked on his game where he hasn’t been missing late FT’s for 2 years. Then when he missed one late against LaTech, you could tell it was killing him and I felt sorry for him instead of anger. I trust that kid to make late game FT’s. While I used to cringe every time he took one, he’s made his last 4 3 pointers. He’s at the end of his career and playing his best bball. Sure, I wish he were better, but the kid has come so far.
*Big Mike has come even further, I’m enjoying watching his growth. He still struggles against smaller athletes, still rushes his release on the way up instead of at the peak, is inconsistent and drives me crazy with his wrist flip FT motion. I wish he was more aggressive defensively and wouldn’t let guys back him down in the lane. But he is sooooo much better than where he came from. For those of you who insist that our coaching staff doesn’t develop players, please explain Mike’s growth.
*Willie, no excuse, WORK to make your F’in FT’s. Wish he elevated higher, wish he finished better, and wish he didn’t let his emotions take over. But love his passion and effort and want Willie on my team every time, just not on the court in the last 5 minutes of a tight game.
*BO is one of the most impressive kids you’ll ever meet. Wish the coaches had figured out that he was leaning to his left and shoulders were turned when he went thru his shooting slump, we could all see it. He brings a quickness we don’t otherwise have. I look forward to 2 more years.
*Sully, thanks for persevering. Hope he gets his confidence back.
*Big upside for the freshmen.

The coaches are good men, have re-engaged our former players, have built good rapport with the local HS programs and have many of the qualities we want in the leaders of our young men. And I’m proud of the quality of the kids the coaches have brought in. They’re going to class, we aren’t reading about what they’re doing off the court, I’m not embarrassed for the kids in post-game interviews, and can be proud of the young men they’re becoming. And I’m really proud of the way the kids on the team have stuck together through this season in spite of horribly underachieving. That is a tribute to both the players and the coaches.

We may not all agree, but I firmly believe there is enough talent on the team to be in the NCAA tournament. Sadly, we haven’t performed, so this is a moot point.

We can all picked out plays or statistics to tell our narrative after each loss. I’m guilty, I’ve done it at least 15 times this season. But it comes down to our inability to make winning plays in crunch time. Some of us place all of the blame the players, others on the coaches, and some of the blame trickles up to Judy. But nobody can deny the culture that has been created, a CULTURE OF LOSING.

Culture comes from the top and rests squarely on the shoulders of coach Major. I’ve seen worse Niner teams, we’ve had a lot less talented Niner players, we’ve had kids with poor character, and we’ve had worse Niner coaches. But today’s culture of losing rivals the Wissel years. I can hardly wait for a change.

I will be at the last two home games, thank TW and PH for what their contributions on Senior day, and I still hold out hope for a miracle finish for MY Charlotte 49ers. But, I’m looking forward to the new culture that will come with our new coaching staff. If you contribute any amount at all to the Athletic Foundation PLEASE be sure to share your thoughtful comments with Judy as soon as the season ends.

To my fellow Niner Nation, thank you for continuing to care. Go Niners![/quote]

I agree with your comments. To add to that, and to sum up what I’ve been saying, the culture of losing and the inability to make winning plays comes down to a culmination of not having an attention to detail, and a lack of discipline on the court.

“generally over-value you personal cognitive abilities” :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

Can you simplify that point for us? ;D

[quote=“4ever niner, post:4, topic:29427”]“generally over-value you personal cognitive abilities” :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

Can you simplify that point for us? ;D[/quote]

:stuck_out_tongue: this!

Are you saying losing isn’t the niner way/culture. the longer it goes without an ncaa appearance, the worse my memory of our last appearance and before (old cusa days) becomes.

As I watched the Niners beat up on a really bad team today in S. Miss and various players stuffing their personal stats, I was trying to recall what I always thought was the hallmark of a great coach - getting players to play better than they were. We haven’t had that in a while, and certainly not with AM - It’s always next year, with some new player or two to plug the apparent holes. Just my 2 cents given my limited cognitive ability.

“Battered into Submission” would more accurately summarize a large portion of fan-base than “knee jerk reaction”.

IMO Alan Major has just compiled a collection of players and has never built a team here at Charlotte.

This team would be an NIT team if we could play defense OR shoot free throws.

This team would be an NCAA team if we could do both.

These are two of the hardest areas to coach as defense many times is more about effort than strategy and game plan. That said, I think that’s the big issue here is getting this team fired up and motivated night in and night out. I think we have played well early in the season because there is so much more intensity and energy building up from the off season. It’s on the coaches to inspire and motivate these guys. La Tech showed that we have the talent to play with anyone in the league and I’d love to see a miracle at CUSA tourney. This team is absolutely capable.

[quote=“ninermike, post:10, topic:29427”]This team would be an NIT team if we could play defense OR shoot free throws.

This team would be an NCAA team if we could do both.

These are two of the hardest areas to coach as defense many times is more about effort than strategy and game plan. That said, I think that’s the big issue here is getting this team fired up and motivated night in and night out. I think we have played well early in the season because there is so much more intensity and energy building up from the off season. It’s on the coaches to inspire and motivate these guys. La Tech showed that we have the talent to play with anyone in the league and I’d love to see a miracle at CUSA tourney. This team is absolutely capable.[/quote]

    I totally agree.  Coaches are definitely responsible for motivation but how do you teach it? Fiery speeches, threats, intimidation

begging, etc… Only thing we have to go by is the demeanor of the coach and on court results of the players. I guess this is circumstantial evidence as we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. They’re so close to being a really good team that I haven’t given up hope. Fix a few bonehead plays, hit a few more FT’s, for f****** sake guard someone, and we could win the tournament. Of course that’s the last thing some of you want.

[quote=“73niner, post:11, topic:29427”][quote=“ninermike, post:10, topic:29427”]This team would be an NIT team if we could play defense OR shoot free throws.

This team would be an NCAA team if we could do both.

These are two of the hardest areas to coach as defense many times is more about effort than strategy and game plan. That said, I think that’s the big issue here is getting this team fired up and motivated night in and night out. I think we have played well early in the season because there is so much more intensity and energy building up from the off season. It’s on the coaches to inspire and motivate these guys. La Tech showed that we have the talent to play with anyone in the league and I’d love to see a miracle at CUSA tourney. This team is absolutely capable.[/quote]

    I totally agree.  Coaches are definitely responsible for motivation but how do you teach it? Fiery speeches, threats, intimidation

begging, etc… Only thing we have to go by is the demeanor of the coach and on court results of the players. I guess this is circumstantial evidence as we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. They’re so close to being a really good team that I haven’t given up hope. Fix a few bonehead plays, hit a few more FT’s, for f****** sake guard someone, and we could win the tournament. Of course that’s the last thing some of you want.[/quote]

Truth.

I don’t know of anyone that doesn’t want to make the tournament. I would honestly say that NOT making the tournament in what could be 10 seasons is issue #1. If odom/major want to change that, by all means please do. However we are going to be the lowest seed or very close to it (and there’s a reason for that) so I don’t like our chances.

[quote=“73niner, post:11, topic:29427”][quote=“ninermike, post:10, topic:29427”]This team would be an NIT team if we could play defense OR shoot free throws.

This team would be an NCAA team if we could do both.

These are two of the hardest areas to coach as defense many times is more about effort than strategy and game plan. That said, I think that’s the big issue here is getting this team fired up and motivated night in and night out. I think we have played well early in the season because there is so much more intensity and energy building up from the off season. It’s on the coaches to inspire and motivate these guys. La Tech showed that we have the talent to play with anyone in the league and I’d love to see a miracle at CUSA tourney. This team is absolutely capable.[/quote]

    I totally agree.  Coaches are definitely responsible for motivation but how do you teach it? Fiery speeches, threats, intimidation

begging, etc… Only thing we have to go by is the demeanor of the coach and on court results of the players. I guess this is circumstantial evidence as we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. They’re so close to being a really good team that I haven’t given up hope. Fix a few bonehead plays, hit a few more FT’s, for f****** sake guard someone, and we could win the tournament. Of course that’s the last thing some of you want.[/quote]

All I want is sustained winning, it’s been a decade and I think I have been patient enough. Winning the conference tourny this year would be awesome if it leads to sustained winning next year. If that were to happen though it would be very interesting to see what the AD does. Bring back Odom for doing more than Major came close to do doing? Bring back Major? Fire them anyway given the body of work? Winning the conf tourny would take what should be a very easy decision and make it very complicated.

Not a fan of Roy Williams or UNC by any means, but you have to respect his passion and envy him trying to light a spark in his fan base. These are comments you would never hear from Alan Major. Remember, putting fliers on the windshields of parked cars is not in his pay grade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/roy-williams-to-north-carolina-fans—we-need-some-dadgum-help–212949239.html

[quote=“cjmorgan1986, post:15, topic:29427”]Not a fan of Roy Williams or UNC by any means, but you have to respect his passion and envy him trying to light a spark in his fan base. These are comments you would never hear from Alan Major. Remember, putting fliers on the windshields of parked cars is not in his pay grade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/roy-williams-to-north-carolina-fans—we-need-some-dadgum-help–212949239.html[/quote]

clt recommends you delete that post. Bringing up good ol roy and UNC CHeat are not kosher on this board.

[quote=“cjmorgan1986, post:15, topic:29427”]Not a fan of Roy Williams or UNC by any means, but you have to respect his passion and envy him trying to light a spark in his fan base. These are comments you would never hear from Alan Major. Remember, putting fliers on the windshields of parked cars is not in his pay grade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/roy-williams-to-north-carolina-fans—we-need-some-dadgum-help–212949239.html[/quote]

No, no you don’t.

Let’s not let this thread fall apart into bush league arguments over whether or not we can reference unc chapel hill. That just screams insecurity.

I watched Gonzaga come from down 12 against Saint Mary’s and end up winning by 10. They’re a much more talented team than us, but they just seemed so confident that they were going to win, and they executed down the stretch. I was much more impressed with this win than Arkansas come from behind win at Mississippi State (was at the game). It got me thinking on this subject.

What I don’t understand is how we do so well in early preseason tournaments and even in much of nonconf play only to fall apart. I’m not sure how much of it is mental and expecting to lose, but it’s kind of self correcting, win and you feel more confident. That’s not that helpful, I know, but perhaps we just don’t have very motivating coaches, or perhaps we aren’t seeing enough team play and player development and our nonconf opponents really aren’t as difficult as we think. Probably a combination. South Carolina and Penn State were decent wins, but not nearly as good as what we thought they were at the time.

Sadly enough, I think this all comes down to just bringing in a new head coach. We can argue in circles, but nothing else is going to fix this.

So as a fan base do we even want to go to big dance this year? That would guarantee coaching brought back. I think they are coming back regardless, but have we truly thrown in the towel on this year?

[quote=“sportsman1417, post:19, topic:29427”]So as a fan base do we even want to go to big dance this year? That would guarantee coaching brought back. I think they are coming back regardless, but have we truly thrown in the towel on this year?[/quote]I will gladly take them for another year if it means our NCAA drought ends.