Big Three Bailout

99 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Sold at 208,000 miles, RAN GREAT, never spent ONE dime - owned for ~30k

95 Chevrolet Monte Carlo - bought at 80k miles, totalled at 130k miles - Had ONE repair ever, shift linkage

2000 Ford Crown Vic Police Intercetor - 120k miles - I’ve had to replace 2 coil packs (~$90) - owned for ~20k miles current

I’ve had one American car that was a piece of **** at it was a 1989 Ford Taurus that had 155k on it when I bought it, and the tranny went out because I was 16, it was my first car, and truth be told, I probably f*cked it up.

Hell, I bought a 91 Firebird with 130k on it for $500 and never spent a dime on it and drove it for a couple of years.

I think it is ridiculous when people say the reliability of American cars is substandard. I have SEVERAL friends with Acuras that have had to have the motors replaced, a friend with an Audi, two friends with Toyotas, a friend with a Nissan, and that is ENGINES people, not talking transmissions or smaller stuff.

I don’t know ONE person who had to have an engine replaced in a domestic that did not race their car and push double the power through it that the motor was meant to have.

Argh, this argument continually pisses me off.

I’ve found americans cars excel in bigger engines, trucks etc. Thats not whats to blame their downfall, these guys were making bank with the low gas prices.

Its the small cars that have always suffered. When people upgraded to a bigger car they just stuck to a brand they knew.

Now though, the american cars are catching up to the small car world and vice versa. Alot of the bigger engined japenese cars had horrible engine problems in the 90’s and such. I dont know anyone who’s had a v6 accord without engine or tranny troubles. Hastily put together engines made to compete with American cars. Works both ways. Cavaliers… ugh… LoL

Looks like they’ve come to an agreement on a $15 Billion Bail Out.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-05-auto-hearing_N.htm

Can someone with an economics degree explain why GM is selling cars when their losing money on every sale? I must of slept through that part my economics class…

They didn’t cover having the taxpayer suckers bail out your losses in Econ class, Gill? What a coincidence, it wasn’t in mine, either.

Can someone with an economics degree explain why GM is selling cars when their losing money on every sale? I must of slept through that part my economics class....

I know it doesn’t really change the point you’re making, but aren’t all 3 losing money right now? I assume the thought is that the current losses are just interim and they can eventually right the ship. A lot of companies lose money over different periods of time. But I do get your point, and they unfortunately might have to face that reality very soon.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2008/12/08/daily10.html?surround=lfn

[QUOTE]North Carolina would lose 26,400 jobs if General Motors Corp. shut down, the Economic Policy Institute says. The state would lose a total of 95,600 jobs if the entire domestic auto industry fails, according to its research.[/QUOTE]

This is a far greater impact than the 30,000-35,000 that BofA is cutting over the next 3 years on a national scale.

UAW apparently is not budging- which is why the bill failed yesterday. Its just amazing these people.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/uaw-pricing-themselves-out-of-market.html

In Rogers comments about the banks being bankrupt, i thought this summed up the whole situation well:

[I]“What is outrageous economically and is outrageous morally is that normally in times like this, people who are competent and who saw it coming and who kept their powder dry go and take over the assets from the incompetent,” he said. “[B]What’s happening this time is that the government is taking the assets from the competent people and giving them to the incompetent people and saying, now you can compete with the competent people.[/B] It is horrible economics.”[/I]

UAW apparently is not budging- which is why the bill failed yesterday. Its just amazing these people.

UAW is not the reason for why this bill failed. It was dead in the water long ago. UAW could have closed up shop and folks like Shelby would have still voted against it.

I wonder if this money will now come from the TARP money? I mean, that money hasnt been used for anything the Treasury Dept said it would be used for in the first place (and now studies are surfacing showing credit markets were never as frozen as good ole Hank led us to believe).

I’m sure there can be some debate as to who is actually playing the role of Nero. But whomever it is, I am a tad bit surprised that they will continue to sit there and just play their fiddle.

There is only 15b of the 700b TARP money not spoken for…

Since UAW said last night they would not budge on pay, they cocked the hammer and put the gun next to their own heads, yet they will put their death on Congress when they did everything including begging someone to pull the trigger.

You can’t be successful when you pay 2 bucks for water and lemons only to sell a lemonaide for a dollar.

Just like to reference my post on the cheap gas thread, it seems more appropriate here. I’d love to buy american and they can build trucks, but as most savvy consumers know and as GM has admitted, they build crappy cars.

GM, in admitting that they have been making subpar cars in an open letter, has pretty much summed up the american automobile industry. For those of us who were born before 1980, you may have fond memories of when american cars were fresh and exciting. However for those of us born in 1980 and beyond we generally have a very pessimistic view of american autos. From my childhood and on I remember every car my parents bought, and I could make a running list of the problems between american cars and japanese cars (my parents didn’t buy any BMW’s or Volvos).

1.)We had a 1991 ford explorer, it came from the factory with a cracked cylinder head, it wasn’t discovered until 50,000 miles so the car always shuddered and ran like crap, plus once it got over 40,000 miles the seats began to show signifigant wear and it was squeak and rattle city in the interior.

2.) Next up we bought a 1994 cadillac deville. The car ran like a dream until the trasmission dropped at 51,000 miles (ironically right after the warranty was up, in a freakin’ caddie!) GM only paid for $1000 of a $3000 repair.

3.) Next up we gave american cars another swing with a 1998 lincoln continental. Once again it ran great except the engine computer would screw up every 5000 miles and the interior light fuse blew over and over. Then at that Magic number again, 50,000 miles, my dad was turning the car around in the driveway when he heard a loud pop, the power sterring pump had burst, getting fluid all over the engine and engine compartment. To top it off the stereo belonged in an escort.

4.) Used car snippets, we bought a 1989 mustang convertible 4 cylinder convertible for my sister. Granted it was used but by 70,000 the fuel pump went out twice, the top motor had burned out and the interior was the cheapest, rattlinist pile o’ crap I had seen yet. also we bought a used ford ranger with 60,000 miles, the heater blew out flaming pine straw and the carbuerator demanded you not take your foot off the gas for at least 10 minutes on a cold morning.

On a lighter note the 1995 Jeep cherokee I had for 80,000 miles was great, no major problems, americans could always build a truck, I believe thats another reason we are in trouble. My parents have also owned a honda pilot, ridgeline, and accord also an acura TL and RL and an acura legend. We have had absolutely no problem out of these cars, the engines run forever if you just do basic maintainence. Best of all the interiors are nice, durable and do not rattle or feel cheap. (I will admit nissan makes kind of cheap interiors).

I’d really like to buy american but how many times can you put your hand in the fire? My parents have been screwed by american cars again and again. I don’t know if they are just cheaping out for max profit, or maybe its the enormous legacy costs. However american auto makers have certainly earned a reputation for lackluster design and half-a** engineering and quality. I don’t know how or how long it will take to turn this around.

UAW is not the reason for why this bill failed. It was dead in the water long ago. UAW could have closed up shop and folks like Shelby would have still voted against it.

I wonder if this money will now come from the TARP money? I mean, that money hasnt been used for anything the Treasury Dept said it would be used for in the first place (and now studies are surfacing showing credit markets were never as frozen as good ole Hank led us to believe).

sure it is, do some reading.

Isnt Shelby from TN, the location of a couple of Japanese plants? So I guess his state wouldn’t benefit from a big 3 collapse at all.

This is apparently the case. Gotta rescue the stock market.

This whole issue pulls me in so many different directions that I get nauseous just thinking about it. One one hand, the big 3 have stifled innovation in the industry for decades, and some believe they’ve been in bed with American Oil for as long, or longer. The UAW is a good thing taken too far. Management is a joke. Workers, suppliers and pension holders and even 401k are all poised to lose their shirts…

Then, the republicans in congress shipped barges of money without any strings to the banks and AIG (AIG is now asking for $10B more!), to bail out their cronies, but suddenly $15B is too much to even consider… The TARP money is being wildly misspent, and is rewarding inefficiency, and ultimately the people picking up the tab for this are all Americans, thanks to the devlaution of their dollars, but especially the taxpapyers, who will have to repay the debt.

Its all such a cluster****. I’m sick of it. 2008 has been a miserable year.

You can't be successful when you pay 2 bucks for water and lemons only to sell a lemonaide for a dollar.

it really is that simple

Isnt Shelby from TN, the location of a couple of Japanese plants? So I guess his state wouldn't benefit from a big 3 collapse at all.
AL
xIts all such a cluster****. I'm sick of it. 2008 has been a miserable year.
one thing everyone can agree on

[QUOTE=ninerID;369434]AL[/QUOTE]

Ahh that means Hyundai. My bad.

Then, the republicans in congress shipped barges of money without any strings to the banks and AIG (AIG is now asking for $10B more!), to bail out their cronies, but suddenly $15B is too much to even consider... The TARP money is being wildly misspent, and is rewarding inefficiency, and ultimately the people picking up the tab for this are all Americans, thanks to the devlaution of their dollars, but especially the taxpapyers, who will have to repay the debt.

Its all such a cluster****. I’m sick of it. 2008 has been a miserable year.

yeah we all know how the Dems had not ties to AIG, Fanny, Freddie, etc

to me the biggest shaft job is Wachovia- why are they forced to merge?

why can’t some auto companies merge?

[URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7779981.stm]US mulls bank funds for carmakers[/URL]

[QUOTE]The White House said that the US economy could not withstand a body blow like the collapse of the auto industry.
It said that the Federal government may have to step in.[/QUOTE]