Big Three Bailout

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Hard to argue this one. My previous comments were in regards to the banks. This lopsidedness for AIG looks shady at best. I think Paulson has a couple of Life Insurance policies with them. :ohmy:

Corker pipes up with some mandatory 4 dollar wage cuts in a year period that no responsible union in the world would agree too, and of course that crashes and burns. UAW asks for a gradual reduction until 2011, and that is no go. It was a stonewall on both sides.

I have no idea how he came up with the $4 amount. But if the options are you either do that or you possibly go into bankruptcy, I don’t see where there’s a choice.

I did read where GM has decided to shut down 3 plants. They’ll keep the employees on payroll for the interim, but save on the operating costs. If they have as much inventory as is being reported, I don’t know why they didn’t do this quite a while ago. It does suck paying employees that aren’t working. But it’s better than the alternative.

A GM failure would cause production problems, crush already weak demand and potentially open the door to low-cost competitors.

Last Updated: December 15, 2008: 5:39 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) – Detroit’s Big Three aren’t the only automotive companies that want to see the government step in with some much needed financial help.

Overseas automakers, most notably Toyota Motor, all endorse some form of federal aid to keep General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), Chrysler LLC and possibly Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) out of bankruptcy.

The Senate killed an effort to get the automakers a stopgap loan last week and now the Bush administration has said it is looking at providing the automakers help from the $700 billion approved to bailout banks and Wall Street firms.

“We support measures to help the industry,” said Toyota Motor ™ spokeswoman Mira Sleilati. “We just want a strong, competitive healthy industry.”

This may seem surprising at first, especially when you consider that much of the opposition to the auto bailout was from senators from Southern states home to auto plants operated by Asian auto companies, such as Alabama and South Carolina. But the Asian automakers insist they never lobbied against such help for the Big Three.

And this makes sense once you take a closer look at the dynamics of the auto industry and how intertwined the fates of all the companies are.

Here’s why Toyota, Honda Motor (HMC) and other Asian auto manufacturers clearly believe they are all better off with GM and Chrysler surviving than if they go out of business.

Collateral damage

The overseas automakers, who between them produce more than 3 million vehicles a year at U.S. plants, all worry their production would be hurt if one of the U.S. automakers went under. That’s because a Big Three failure would likely lead to widespread bankruptcies in the auto parts supplier industry.

Erich Merkle, lead auto analyst with the consulting firm Crowe Horwath LLP, said there is much overlap between the automakers’ suppliers. Since most parts in an automobile have only a single supplier producing them, the disruptions in production will be severe and prolonged.

“It could take months for a Toyota to work through that and resume normal production,” he said.

Merkle said the current network of auto suppliers, manufacturers and dealerships have worked well for the overseas automakers, who have posted steady gains in their U.S. market share during the past few years.

Besides sharing suppliers, many dealers sell both U.S. and overseas brands. So the failure of a U.S. automaker could hurt the overseas manufacturers’ dealer network and their sales as well, Merkle said.

“There would be a severe disturbance in the force,” he quipped.

Economic shockwaves

A collapse of one of the Big Three would also probably cause an even more severe hit to the U.S. economy. That would further eat into demand for U.S. auto sales, which hit a 26-year low in November.

“The U.S. economy would be in shambles,” Merkle said. “The robust U.S. economy that Toyota and the others depend on would suddenly not be as lucrative.”

The overseas automakers agree that the last thing they need is for the U.S. economy to slow further. The U.S. is the largest market for Toyota, Honda and Nissan (NSANY). All are expected to report lower U.S. sales this year for the first time ever.

“We want to get the economy back,” said Michael Stanton, CEO of the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, which represents most of the Asian automakers with plants in the U.S. “Everyone is hurting at this level of sales. Everybody is either cutting back or shutting down.”

The latest cutbacks came Monday when Toyota announced it was putting plans to open a new plant in Mississippi on hold indefinitely, even though it is about 90% complete. The plant was set to start building the first domestically produced Prius in 2011.

While the overseas automakers would be certain to eventually pick up more U.S. market share if a U.S. automaker stopped doing business, Merkle said the need to sell off the inventory of the failed automaker at fire sale prices would depress all prices in the industry in the short-term.

Enter new competition

The final concern for the overseas automakers is a longer-term problem. If a U.S. automaker fails, that could open the door for a Chinese or Indian automaker to buy up the assets of the failed automaker and create a new low-cost competitor in the U.S.

“You could open the door for foreign companies to buy distressed assets at rock bottom prices,” he said. He pointed to India’s Tata (TTM) and China’s Geely, as two automakers in the developing world that are already on record as being interested in expanding into western markets like the United States.

“Tata and Geely would be incredibly open to brownfield sites,” he said, referring to the term used to describe companies that buy discarded industrial facilities.

Toyota and Honda have already felt the effects of competition from other upstarts firsthand in the U.S.

Korean manufacturers Hyundai and Kia have eaten into the sales of Toyota’s and Honda’s small, inexpensive vehicles, but that growth has taken decades.

Merkle said it might take a year or more for a new competitor to get off the ground. But by grabbing U.S. automakers’ assets, vehicle designs and dealerships, an incoming Indian or Chinese manufacturer could quickly become a low-cost threat much quicker than the Koreans.

The established automakers like Toyota and Honda are also unlikely to look to buy the distressed assets themselves because they have never used acquisitions or purchases of other companies’ assets as a method of growing.

Instead, they have always built their own facilities from the ground up in order to expand. Merkle said that is unlikely to change, even if the more productive facilities of U.S. automakers were put up for sale by a bankruptcy court, Merkle said.

While companies such as Tata or Geely are likely to eventually enter the U.S. anyway, Merkle said the vacuum caused by the failure of GM or Chrysler could jumpstart those efforts and bring them to the market years earlier than expected

Bailed out. $14B in TARP money, another $4B possible in Feb.

How do I get my company to pay me to sit on my a55 for 3 weeks? In $ trouble my a55 GM, you sound like a gravy train to me.
And how dumb is the SEC to have missed previous reports on madoff? You don’t steal $50 Bil. in one night. It takes years, even decades.

So I guess Dana Perino was just running off at the mouth yesterday?

How do I get my company to pay me to sit on my a55 for 3 weeks? In $ trouble my a55 GM, you sound like a gravy train to me. And how dumb is the SEC to have missed previous reports on madoff? You don't steal $50 Bil. in one night. It takes years, even decades.
I'm all for shutting down the SEC. What a waste of money and space they are.

UAW President Gettelfinger was on Fox Business this morning. Pretty good interview. After watching it I almost started to lean towards letting them fail. In that interview Gettelfinger seemed to refuse any blame, denied that their pay/benefits are higher than competitors, claims that pay is only 10% of costs.

But I think the the part that frustrated me the most is his complaining about the terms of the restructuring as a result of the bailout. That is a snapshot of what frustrates people about the union. The government does get to set some terms until the loan is paid off. The UAW should be making few to no demands right now. I can’t go to the bank and ask for a loan, then tell them this is how the loan is going to work.

The Fox Business interview wasn’t up yet. But here is a CNN interview from about a week ago. He starts going in the direction I am referring to at the end of the interview.

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRsJiOQOT0&feature=related[/URL]

Looks like home builders now want bailout funds too.

Its going to be interesting how Obama deals with the deficit. I am for the bailout and the infrastructure stimulus BTW.

How do I get my company to pay me to sit on my a55 for 3 weeks? In $ trouble my a55 GM, you sound like a gravy train to me.

Work for a company that has to shut down their manufacturing facilities once a year to retool the assembly lines, then join a union.

GM put themselves in the situation of having unionized workers decades ago. Unionization is what happens to companies that don’t treat their workers well. If you have a happy workforce that is pleased with their compensation and benefits, what would be the advantage to unionizing?

Its going to be interesting how Obama deals with the deficit. I am for the bailout and the infrastructure stimulus BTW.

He’s not. At least for the first half of his first term. Dealing with the recession has to be the first priority. The worst thing he could do is cut spending.

[QUOTE=Normmm;371737]Looks like home builders now want bailout funds too.[/QUOTE]

Yep. No way to close this can of worms.

Work for a company that has to shut down their manufacturing facilities once a year to retool the assembly lines, then join a union.

GM put themselves in the situation of having unionized workers decades ago. Unionization is what happens to companies that don’t treat their workers well. If you have a happy workforce that is pleased with their compensation and benefits, what would be the advantage to unionizing?

I think the unions were created as much for safety regulations, working conditions, work hours, as they were for pay and benefits. Think of how many people are in jobs where they wish they got better pay and benefits, but aren’t in unions.

I think the unions were created as much for safety regulations, working conditions, work hours, as they were for pay and benefits. Think of how many people are in jobs where they wish they got better pay and benefits, but aren't in unions.

It all goes back to my main point that unionized shops bring it upon themselves. Can’t blame the workers.

[QUOTE=Noreaster;371760]It all goes back to my main point that unionized shops bring it upon themselves. Can’t blame the workers.[/QUOTE]

No you can’t really blame the workers. However, when I was in college 20 years ago I worked at a trucking company that was union. I was part time so I wasn’t. Those guys were lazy as **** because they knew they were basically like tenured profs. The company couldn’t touch them.

A little sidebar to this, the reason I quit is that the supervisors treated the PTers like me like sh*t and I would have hit someone if I didn’t quit. They couldn’t say anything to the Union guys, so they tried to push out their chests at the pters.

unions aren’t needed anymore…once upon a time they served an honorable and noble role. Now if your work environment or boss mistreats you, you can take a cellphone pic or put it on youtube. 50 yrs ago, that didn’t happen.

if you don’t like your pay, quit and find another job

It all goes back to my main point that unionized shops bring it upon themselves. Can't blame the workers.

Not really. Not if the union is the result of governmental labor laws. The company had little choice. In theory the unions do make sense. But in practice you are handcuffing a company if they can’t play by the same rules as their competitors.

Not really. Not if the union is the result of governmental labor laws. The company had little choice. In theory the unions do make sense. But in practice you are handcuffing a company if they can't play by the same rules as their competitors.

I am unaware of any union that exists because the labor laws required it to. Can you point me in the direction of one? I would be interested to read about how that works.

My point is that if a company was playing by the same rules as their competitors, they wouldn’t have a unionized labor force. Happy workers do not upset the apple cart. Unions work to protect the best interests of the workers, whether it is health, safety, pay, benefits, etc. Obviously they have to consider the affect of their demands on the long term viability of the company, or all of their workers will be out of jobs.

To metro’s point, unions ARE needed now because corporations are not as responsible as they should be. Look at Smithfield Farms’ processing plant in NC that just unionized. The workers there have been complaining about poor working conditions for over a decade, and what have the labor laws done for them? If a company is not punished by the regulatory agencies for their faults, why would a company spend any money to upgrade/improve the working conditions? This is an example of when a union will step in and force the company to improve because the state/federal government sure isn’t doing anything about it.