let me start first by the fact that I am not saying this because it is Carolina, I am posting this because it is pure idiocy in the world of college sports in general.
[URL]http://www.charlotte.com/sports_breaking/story/375115.html[/URL]
How do you go 3-8, get a $291,000 raise, and a one year extension? i understand that it is about the “future” but didn’t bunting do better than 3-8?
That move will cost UNC Charlotte at least $100,000 additional in coaching salaries if they get a football program. To pay someone that much money when they’ve never been a power is absurd.
John Bunting’s record at UNC-Chapel Hill:
2001 - 8-5
2002 - 3-9
2003 - 2-10
2004 - 6-6
2005 - 5-6
2006 - 3-9
That move will cost UNC Charlotte at least $100,000 additional in coaching salaries if they get a football program. To pay someone that much money when they've never been a power is absurd.Butch Davis’ record at UNC-Chapel Hill:
2001 - 8-5
2002 - 3-9
2003 - 2-10
2004 - 6-6
2005 - 5-6
2006 - 3-9
I’m assuming you mean Bunting?
Fixed. Sorry, my head isn’t here today, Dad’s not doing well in the hospital.
[QUOTE=HP49er;271033]Fixed. Sorry, my head isn’t here today, Dad’s not doing well in the hospital.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear that HP, my prayers with you and your family.
As for the Holes, they can afford to give Davis a raise and they had to if they wanted to keep him. Must be nice to have money in your program.
UNC-CH’s higher-ups almost looked reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal dumb today. The Tarheels escaped Kenan with an OT win over DUKE. Pitiful.
[QUOTE=ninerID;270963]let me start first by the fact that I am not saying this because it is Carolina, I am posting this because it is pure idiocy in the world of college sports in general.
[URL]http://www.charlotte.com/sports_breaking/story/375115.html[/URL]
How do you go 3-8, get a $291,000 raise, and a one year extension? i understand that it is about the “future” but didn’t bunting do better than 3-8?[/QUOTE]
The Heels are simply protecting their investment. With the recruits he’s already bringing in, there’s no way Carolina will continue to be a doormat. It’s a step that, if Badour had any foresight, they would have done with Mack Brown. It would have been tough for them to even come close to matching Texas in salary, but in hindsight would it not have been worth it? They were one win away from a couple of ACC titles under Brown, but just could not get over the FSU hurdle. Somebody look up what Brown’s record was his first couple of years in Chapel Hill. It wasn’t pretty, but he’s the one laughing now financially and with a title trophy in the background. You extend the contract so that the big cheese programs with money to waste don’t swoop in and pick him off. Compare the winning percentage of UNC-Ch’s teams since Brown to the last five years under Brown. Davis is a proven college winner, and they know he’s going to get it done.
The best example of this I see coming is Michigan stealing Les Miles. Why Miles would want to leave LSU for Michigan is beyond me. LSU has been a better program than Michigan the last seven years, yet the football “experts” think this is a “better” job. The only thing “better” there might be the money.
I mean UNC CH is a young team, and they have played a lot of teams a lot closer this year. They lost close to UVA and VT…two teams they usually get utterly dominated by, homecoming style. I think it wasn’t a bad decision…but it seemed a little much too soon to me.
The Heels are simply protecting their investment.I understand this, but it doesn't always work out Notre Dame tried to protect their investment in Charlie Weiss.
I don’t understand the big deal about Butch Davis though.
1995 8-3
1996 9-3
1997 5-6
1998 9-3
1999 9-4
2000 11-1 finally a bcs bowl win for Miami
2001-2003 Larry coker goes 35-3, wins and loses a national championship, and wins another bcs bowl in the big east.
Returns to college football, goes 4-8 (could have been 3-9 if not for a comeback against duke)
He is probably a top 15 coach in the nation, but when i step back and look at the numbers it seems like hype is telling me that.
oh and mack brown did get away, but needed vince young to win a championship.
The last post forgets that the national championship games came primarily with Butch Davis’s players, if I’m not mistaken.
And Butch is winning or losing right now with Bunting’s players. It’s just the same way they should have done the right thing and given Coach Doh a national championship ring for getting Felton, McCants and May … but they didn’t. Charlie Weis is getting somewhat of a free pass right now at ND because he won his first two years … with Willingham’s players. Now that he’s got his own … not so much.
Butch is like Doherty in that he followed up and inherited some awful, awful players (and Forte, who Dean “got”). Doherty had the worst season ever because Coach Gut couldn’t have gotten me to come to Carolina on scholarship, meanwhile he’d tell Jason Williams “just don’t go to Duke.” Once Doh got his own players in there, they were good again, and Roy pushed them over the hump.
I think Butch will prove that he’s worth the money. He’s going to lead a campaign for them to expand the stadium, build an academic center and build luxury boxes. That should pay for some of that contract.
The last post forgets that the national championship games came primarily with Butch Davis's players, if I'm not mistaken.
i fully understand that, and I just realized that during Butch Davis years at Miami he was under probation thanks to Dennis Erickson. However, i just think its hilarious to see poor performance get a raise based on hype for a coach that has won one bcs bowl game in his career. The only team they beat in the state of NC was Duke, and that was at home and went to overtime. Again they lose to Wake, State beats them for the first time in a while I think and they have a new coach as well.
I guess there was a clause about no buyout if he goes to arkansas.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271074]I understand this, but it doesn’t always work out Notre Dame tried to protect their investment in Charlie Weiss.
I don’t understand the big deal about Butch Davis though.
1995 8-3
1996 9-3
1997 5-6
1998 9-3
1999 9-4
2000 11-1 finally a bcs bowl win for Miami
2001-2003 Larry coker goes 35-3, wins and loses a national championship, and wins another bcs bowl in the big east.
Returns to college football, goes 4-8 (could have been 3-9 if not for a comeback against duke)
He is probably a top 15 coach in the nation, but when i step back and look at the numbers it seems like hype is telling me that.
oh and mack brown did get away, but needed vince young to win a championship.[/QUOTE]
All good coaches need great players to win titles.
Anyways, what Brick said and, yes, Coker won with Davis’ players. Miami was undefeated until December Davis’ last year there and they had to play a hurricane-postponed game with UCLA and got beat at the wrong time. The next year, most of those same players won a title then got screwed out of another the next year. Davis, like Brown, is a great recruiter.
Weiss was not a proven winner as a head coach. He may be a great X’s and O’s coach, but he better be able to recruit or he will be toast soon. Kids these days don’t give a crap about tradition, they want to play, they want to win, and they want a shot at the next level. Weiss knows about the next level, but any more 3-9 seasons and the prized recruits won’t care about that anymore. With Notre Dame’s usual schedule and the recruits they usually get, they should never win less than 6 games. This year, their slate was pretty tough. If they had been in the Big 10 this year, they might have gone winless in conference. :ohmy:
[QUOTE=X-49er;271068] Why Miles would want to leave LSU for Michigan is beyond me. LSU has been a better program than Michigan the last seven years, yet the football “experts” think this is a “better” job. The only thing “better” there might be the money.[/QUOTE]
I believe he played at Michigan, but without that piece of info I agree that its not necesarily a better job. There is also the idea that it is easier to make a BCS or “National Title” game out of the Big10 than the SEC because the SEC is tougher and so you would have fewer losses in the Big10.
[QUOTE=lutz9er;271086]I believe he played at Michigan, but without that piece of info I agree that its not necesarily a better job. There is also the idea that it is easier to make a BCS or esp. “National Title” game out of the Big10 than the SEC because the SEC is tougher and you would have fewer losses in the Big10.[/QUOTE]
Two very good points I hadn’t thought about. Ordinarily, all Michigan has to worry about is OSU and Notre Dame. Michigan State and Wisconsin give them scares most of the time, but usually aren’t as talented. He played at Michigan and was assistant there two different times for a total of 10 seasons.
i just think it is a pretty big coin flip, especially when you go 4-8 in an ACC that isn’t what it was 3 years ago, and almost lose to duke at home. I understand he won at Miami, but lets not act like they are a Rutgers or Missouri, miami is on another level as far as ability to bring in talent.
Also if we are basing it on future, for 2008 Butch Davis has the 41st best class in the nation, 9th in the ACC (only ahead of Wake, UVA and Duke). The good news is, they are on this list of some top guys, but Charlotte fans should know what that means. Butch Davis makes them competitive for top talent, but a year of 4-8, obviously no bowl game, with next year probably not that much better, the hype machine will slow.
like i said, its a coin flip, but chapel hill can afford it.
[QUOTE=X-49er;271068]The Heels are simply protecting their investment. With the recruits he’s already bringing in, there’s no way Carolina will continue to be a doormat. It’s a step that, if Badour had any foresight, they would have done with Mack Brown. It would have been tough for them to even come close to matching Texas in salary, but in hindsight would it not have been worth it? They were one win away from a couple of ACC titles under Brown, but just could not get over the FSU hurdle. Somebody look up what Brown’s record was his first couple of years in Chapel Hill. It wasn’t pretty, but he’s the one laughing now financially and with a title trophy in the background. You extend the contract so that the big cheese programs with money to waste don’t swoop in and pick him off. Compare the winning percentage of UNC-Ch’s teams since Brown to the last five years under Brown. Davis is a proven college winner, and they know he’s going to get it done.
The best example of this I see coming is Michigan stealing Les Miles. Why Miles would want to leave LSU for Michigan is beyond me. LSU has been a better program than Michigan the last seven years, yet the football “experts” think this is a “better” job. The only thing “better” there might be the money.[/QUOTE]
Miles has Deep ties to Michigan. Played under Schelmbechler, was an assistant coach to Schembelcher and Gary Moeller at Michigan. The same reason Roy Williams took the UNC-CH job, even though Kansas is a great job in its own right.
The Heels are simply protecting their investment. With the recruits he's already bringing in, there's no way Carolina will continue to be a doormat...
That’s what it boils down to. The talent that he has lined up for the next couple years is extremely impressive.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271093]i just think it is a pretty big coin flip, especially when you go 4-8 in an ACC that isn’t what it was 3 years ago, and almost lose to duke at home. I understand he won at Miami, but lets not act like they are a Rutgers or Missouri, [B]miami is on another level as far as ability to bring in talent[/B].
Also if we are basing it on future, for 2008 Butch Davis has the 41st best class in the nation, 9th in the ACC (only ahead of Wake, UVA and Duke). The good news is, they are on this list of some top guys, but Charlotte fans should know what that means. Butch Davis makes them competitive for top talent, but a year of 4-8, obviously no bowl game, [B]with next year probably not that much better[/B], the hype machine will slow.
like i said, its a coin flip, but chapel hill can afford it.[/QUOTE]
Miami happened to be one of the teams the Heels defeated this year, and the Heels were 31 points away from being 10-2. They lost 6 games by a TD or less (also won three by a slim margin). Considering that they only had 1 upperclassman at a skill position on offense, that’s not bad. They only lose one offensive starter (center), and three defensive. I don’t know how Rivals does their rankings, but if it’s based on quantity at all, UNC-CH will be low. They don’t have much to replace. They also have the top player in North Carolina from last year coming in, who was rated the 4th best WR in the country. I don’t think they’ll be too worried about their class ranking for this year.
Miami happened to be one of the teams the Heels defeated this year, and the Heels were 31 points away from being 10-2. They lost 6 games by a TD or less (also won three by a slim margin). Considering that they only had 1 upperclassman at a skill position on offense, that's not bad. They only lose one offensive starter (center), and three defensive. I don't know how Rivals does their rankings, but if it's based on quantity at all, UNC-CH will be low. They don't have much to replace. They also have the top player in North Carolina from last year coming in, who was rated the 4th best WR in the country. I don't think they'll be too worried about their class ranking for this year.
Their 4 wins were James Madison (rpi 115/Division 1aa), Miami (91), Maryland (52, a good win), and duke (168) in OT, all of those were at home. They finished 3-5 in the conference, without having to play Boston College, Clemson or FSU, the 1, 2, and 4 team in the atlantic division. miami was 2-6 in the conference, a lot of teams beat them, including getting destroyed by UVA 48-0.
I’m not saying he can’t get talent to come in, I just think it is a little dumb to reward the season he had. Like HP said, it will effect coaching contracts on a lot of levels.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271079]i fully understand that, and I just realized that during Butch Davis years at Miami he was under probation thanks to Dennis Erickson. However, i just think its hilarious to see poor performance get a raise based on hype for a coach that has won one bcs bowl game in his career. The only team they beat in the state of NC was Duke, and that was at home and went to overtime. Again they lose to Wake, State beats them for the first time in a while I think and they have a new coach as well.
I guess there was a clause about no buyout if he goes to arkansas.[/QUOTE]
I think you are looking at this all wrong by looking at his record. This raise is totally based on what Butch’s value is out on the open market. Carolina finally has a big time coach who can turn them into a bigtime football program, why let that get away?? They learned from letting Mac go, what happens when you don’t have a big time coach to lead your program and like them or not UNC is a top 10 school athletically and there is no reason they can’t be great in football if they put the resources behind it. They are alot of bigtime jobs that are open and that will be open and Butch would have been very high on a lot of AD’s wish lists.