This is not intended to stir up a can of worms, but here goes. IMHO Lutz has recruited and signed during his tenure only 2 stud players:
Rodney White and Eddie Basden. Was 1977 really a dream? Was that team a true Cinderella team from a school never to reach even the
Sweet Sixteen again? Seems that in 1977 the same problems existed: recruiting against ACC (Duke was Duke then and UNC-CH was UNC-CH
with a Final Four trip alongside us). And NCSU had some dude named David Thompson. We played our home games in a high school gym (Mine Shaft)
with a rookie coach (Bill Foster then Lee Rose) and we still managed to make the NCAA tourney in a smaller field of teams invited. For heavens sake,
how could our program digress this way over 30 confound years!!! We had more obstacles and problems back then than today. What has
really happened? I’m begging the questions!
This is not intended to stir up a can of worms, but here goes. IMHO Lutz has recruited and signed during his tenure only 2 stud players
What the hell is your definition of a “stud player”??
I would add:
Leemire Goldwire
Brendan Plavich
Curtis Withers
if they live up to their billing, i’ll add shamarr bowden and chris braswell to that list as well.
and i must agree with chisox, lee was mr basketball in the state of florida.
i admittedly dont know as much about plavich’s and withers’ hype coming in, but they both had great careers in a niners uniform.
[QUOTE=fishniner;366155]Lutz has recruited and signed during his tenure only 2 stud players:
Rodney White and Eddie Basden.[/QUOTE]
Basden was not a stud coming he, he grew into one. The same way that Jobey, Diego, Galen, Demarco, etc. If we are looking at rankings Lutz has had 2 - Rodney and Hayward.
[QUOTE=fishniner;366155]For heavens sake,
how could our program digress this way over 30 confound years!!! We had more obstacles and problems back then than today. What has
really happened? I’m begging the questions![/QUOTE]
While you are right about 1977 it is MUCH harder these days than it ever has been. The advantages that traditional powerhouses have has just grown. We were able to find Cornbread and a few of our other diamonds because we outworked some of the bigger schools. Now with AAU and the resources the big schools have it is tougher to find those players. This is not meant to be a defense of Lutz, because we certainly have fallen from where we were 10 year ago, but from the time of the Final Four run we have fallen to the deep deep basement with Wissell - we have not got there - yet. Think about how San Francisco feels! They won 2 titles in the 50s and went undefeated in 56 and now they are not relevant at all.
This is not intended to stir up a can of worms, but here goes.Then, WHY did you start this thread? And your post is full of more mistakes than the officials in an A10 game.
Ever hear of Curtis Withers, Jobey Thomas, and Leemire Goldwire?
1977 Final Four Team: [B]Some coaches considered our starting 5 the best starting 5 in the nation that year.[/B] 2 of those starters were TOP 10 draft choices when they entered the NBA Draft. Cedric Maxwell was drafted very high in '77 and Chad Kinch was drafted 7th (I think) when he graduated. Those 5 starters could have started for any team in the country.
It was not exactly a “fluke” that team made it to the Final 4. That said, recruiting is much more sophisticated these days, and it’s tougher to land players like that.
Bobby and company are decent recruiters in my opinion but the bigger problem is the lack of player development and how the players are used. Withers had the potential to be a stud player but we were to busy bombing away from the perimeter. And when we did try to get him the ball it usually resulted in a dropped pass due to his inability to catch the ball. As much potential as some of our big guys have had it amazes me the inability of our coaching staff to work with them on catching the ball.
if they live up to their billing, i'll add shamarr bowden and chris braswell to that list as well.
they havent played a minute of a real game yet. i see that youre saying…IF…but they shouldnt even be in discussion until they become leaders which the others most definitely were…for the exception of curtis who had all the talent in the world but was NOT a leader. and quite simply…[COLOR=DarkGreen][B]WIN [/B][COLOR=Black]ball games!!![/COLOR][/COLOR]
Then, WHY did you start this thread? And your post is full of more mistakes than the officials in an A10 game.Ever hear of Curtis Withers, Jobey Thomas, and Leemire Goldwire?
1977 Final Four Team: [B]Some coaches considered our starting 5 the best starting 5 in the nation that year.[/B] 2 of those starters were TOP 10 draft choices when they entered the NBA Draft. Cedric Maxwell was drafted very high in '77 and Chad Kinch was drafted 7th (I think) when he graduated. Those 5 starters could have started for any team in the country.
It was not exactly a “fluke” that team made it to the Final 4. That said, recruiting is much more sophisticated these days, and it’s tougher to land players like that.
Also… NAIA Guilford produced 2 NBA players during those years and NAIA Winston-Salem State produced Earl The Pearl Monroe during the late 60’s. The term “Power Conference” was unheard of back then, and recruiting against the “big” conferences was easier.
I agree with this. I think there’s definitely been a tendency to over-hype our players. I just posted some info in another thread about talent. A stud in my mind is around a top 40 national ranking and can make it to the next level.
We’ve had a history of getting good players, but on the national level they are a little undersized to be considered a stud. I think White, Basden and Thomas all had good size, athleticism and skill set for their positions and could be considered studs. Outside of them the players generally have lacked one of the three (skill set, size or athleticism) to truly be considered a stud.
As strong willed as Leemire was, I don’t believe he was top 120 coming out of HS. But that in part is why I liked him so much.
Bobby and company are decent recruiters in my opinion but the bigger problem is the lack of player development and how the players are used. Withers had the potential to be a stud player but we were to busy bombing away from the perimeter. And when we did try to get him the ball it usually resulted in a dropped pass due to his inability to catch the ball. As much potential as some of our big guys have had it amazes me the inability of our coaching staff to work with them on catching the ball.
That is one of Bobby’s biggest flaws. He has no track record of developing players. In his tenure as coach, the only player that was significantly better his senior year was Eddie Basden. (Jobey is probably another one, but he was still really only a 3 point shooter even though he did d the pump fake dribble pull up jumper into his offense.) We can’t expect him to take us tot he next level if he can’t develop the mid level talent he only brings in.
As for Bowden and Braswell…you newer fans will learn that IF is a 4 letter word.
if they live up to their billing, i'll add shamarr bowden and chris braswell to that list as well.
I love your optimism jfickett. But I think some of the talk like this is what sometimes leads to unrealistic expectations. I hope Bowden becomes a national All American, I think in the interim we should be realistic about the expectations. While I believe it was good land for us, on the national level we only beat out VT. On Rivals he’s rated 3 stars out of 5, and roughly 58th at the SG position.
For what its worth, I do believe Spears can be a stud.
Eddie improving had as much to do with Eddie as it did with coach.
Eddie improving had as much to do with Eddie as it did with coach.
I agree, the bottom line is Lutz doesn’t develop talent, he can only coach it. The problem is he doesn’t bring in enough talent anymore to get our hopes up and finish the season before the Sweet 16…
I’m looking forward to .500 seasons again.
Vincent Grier was a stud, but he left. Iti was hyped plenty, nuff said. SoCal was after Withers.
My problem is they don’t get any better.
Well, I begged the questions and I got my answer Chisox and Over40. A stud is a player who “sniffs” the NBA. Basden and White. Case closed.
I would say Rodney more than sniffed, he played for a while.
Beatin a dead horse here? Not three years, not thirteen years, but THIRTY plus years!!! What happened?
how many of these guys did lutz recruit and how many did moxley recruit. moxley is the real key to us landing big time players, not as much lutz.
Moxley, yadayadayada. Why did he leave Maryland? Greener pastures?