Agree totally. 80% of deaths were people 65 or older. 85% of those folks are vaccinated now.
I think the biggest issue in NC was staffing and not actual capacity.
A hospital bed with no staff is not much different than your bed at home IMO. With some of the people forced to take of patients in February it might have been safer at home for awhile.
Agree but staffing is a much quicker fix than not enough beds.
Not a good situation either way
More interesting than the politicization of masks part deux will be next flu season and if there is a significant uptick in mask wearing to keep flu numbers down.
Pretty damning evidence that masks arenât effective in preventing you from spreading or getting the virus.Basically just a symbol.
All of the test data is sourced in the article. Iâve pasted some of the results below from different tests. Good read.
A synopsis of the results
- A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control. (Source)
- A Danish randomized controlled trial with 6000 participants, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in November 2020, found no statistically significant effect of high-quality medical face masks against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a community setting. (Source)
- A large randomized controlled trial with close to 8000 participants, published in October 2020 in PLOS One , found that face masks âdid not seem to be effective against laboratory-confirmed viral respiratory infections nor against clinical respiratory infection.â (Source)
- A February 2021 review by the European CDC found no significant evidence supporting the effectiveness of non-medical and medical face masks in the community. Furthermore, the European CDC advised against the use of FFP2/N95 masks by the general public. (Source)
- A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks against virus infection or transmission. (Source)
- A November 2020 Cochrane review found that face masks did not reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases, neither in the general population nor in health care workers. (Source)
- An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). (Source)
- An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life. (Source)
- A 2015 study in the British Medical Journal BMJ Open found that cloth masks were penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use. (Source)
- An August 2020 review by a German professor in virology, epidemiology and hygiene found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks and that the improper daily use of masks by the public may in fact lead to an increase in infections. (Source)
Swiss Policy Research is not a reliable source. They are a website pushing an agenda by cherry-picking studies and are not peer-reviewed. Itâs this kind of misinformation that makes it hard for people to make good decisions. Surprised you would post thisâŚ
Hereâs a more comprehensive, more recent peer-reviewed review article:
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
Abstract:
The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission characteristics, source control, wearer protection, sociological considerations, and implementation considerations. A primary route of transmission of COVID-19 is via respiratory particles, and it is known to be transmissible from presymptomatic, paucisymptomatic, and asymptomatic individuals. Reducing disease spread requires two things: limiting contacts of infected individuals via physical distancing and other measures and reducing the transmission probability per contact. The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies. Because many respiratory particles become smaller due to evaporation, we recommend increasing focus on a previously overlooked aspect of mask usage: mask wearing by infectious people (âsource controlâ) with benefits at the population level, rather than only mask wearing by susceptible people, such as health care workers, with focus on individual outcomes. We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation.
The information is an aggregate of different testing that was done. Swiss Policy Research didnât do the actual tests.
I can post the individual tests if needed. How about the CDC? Do you like them? Here are their results
Abstract
There were 3 influenza pandemics in the 20th century, and there has been 1 so far in the 21st century. Local, national, and international health authorities regularly update their plans for mitigating the next influenza pandemic in light of the latest available evidence on the effectiveness of various control measures in reducing transmission. Here, we review the evidence base on the effectiveness of nonpharmaceutical personal protective measures and environmental hygiene measures in nonhealthcare settings and discuss their potential inclusion in pandemic plans. Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person transmission.
More from the CDC.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf#page=4
- An analysis by the US CDC found that 85% of people infected with the new coronavirus reported wearing a mask âalwaysâ (70.6%) or âoftenâ (14.4%). Compared to the control group of uninfected people, always wearing a mask did not reduce the risk of infection.
I donât trust a website like Swiss Policy Research to give an unbiased picture, and in fact they did clearly cherry-pick their studies. E.g. they didnât include any of the studies supporting mask use that were included in the more reliable article I posted. The article I posted is in a scientific journal, has been peer-reviewed, and includes both studies supporting and not supporting masks helping and explains why thereâs differences. You should read it if you are interested in learning more about the topic.
CDC is a pretty reliable source. Do you agree with their current recommendation on the effectiveness of masks?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Concluding paragraph:
Conclusions
Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and wearer protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and wearer protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic14, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks and in particular to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal. Mask use has been found to be safe and is not associated with clinically significant impacts on respiration or gas exchange. Adopting universal masking policies can help avert future lockdowns, especially if combined with other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as social distancing, hand hygiene, and adequate ventilation.
If we all live in bubbles and never have outside contact with people, that will work too. Leave the nonmasked and unvaccinated alone. They know their risks and are free to take them and live with the consequences. We donât need the government telling us what to do for every life function.
The point of the article was to aggregate research showing that mask usage isnât effective in preventing the spread of viruses (including a study by the CDC). So yes, they did not share any pro-mask research. Doesnât mean the research isnât valid. In fact, the research shared was done by some very reputable sources.
The thought that any research, thought or idea that proves a point I am against is invalid is basically the crux of the issue in fighting COVID.
Yes, they have information on their site that in some cases masks work and in others it does not. Their research is certainly inconclusive as to the effectiveness of masks.
If you only present studies that support your preconceived view, then of course you will end up supporting that view. That is bad scholarship, and actually does more harm than good by giving a misleading view of whatâs been found on the topic. The key is that even though there are a few studies suggesting masks are ineffective, there are many more studies suggesting they are effective. So is it valid to ignore the other studies then, particularly when they represent the majority and stronger findings on the topic?
Did you read the article I posted?
I posted a list of studies (10-15) that showed mask usage was ineffective. Most of the studies were from reliable sources. I didnât offer an opinion on mask wearing. Just info.
I think I have made it clear that you should read everything. Points you agree with and points you disagree with and more of the latter.
Now my opinion on the effectiveness of mask wearing for preventing virus spread in a communal situation is that itâs inconclusive. You have research that certainly supports both sides. I donât think it hurts but I am not sure it helps. Itâs certainly not been proven to me that mask wearing is so effective that a mandate should be issued by the gov (local or federal). Communicate the risks and let people/businesses make their own decisions.
If you read the article I posted, youâll see it reviews a lot of studies out there now on when masks help and situations they donât (e.g. when people are together in small spaces with poor ventiliation for hours at a time, the mask probably wonât prevent infection, though it may still help reduce the magnitude of exposure which could then result in a less severe case). Itâs pretty comprehensive and makes well-supported conclusions that masks help reduce transmission that incorporate the current evidence both for and against. Thereâs others like this one that come to similar conclusions.
Your list of studies from Swiss Policy Research is biased in selection, so it gives a misleading view (and that seems to be the MO of âSwiss Policy Researchâ articles in general, they appear to have an agenda). I wouldnât rely on them for information, since youâre likely to get a skewed view, ignoring the majority of whatâs been found on the topic. You may still come to the view that the research is inconclusive while ignoring these biased sources and reading other, more comprehensive and relatively unbiased sources, but youâre less likely to be misled.
I doubted if masks were really helping and more than anything they strike me as people trying to feel like they have some control over something so it was more mental than helpful, but at the end of the day I didnât really care. If the mask may have helped then I would wear it, slight inconvenience to maybe have a positive impact. The idea I could spread it without knowing and the mask maybe helping that was enough for me. Only time I got mad is when I had to walk back to the car.
Now that I am vaccinated and everyone in my circle is and it is very likely I am not able spread it makes me wearing a mask seem pretty pointless and just for show. Since the mask was about protecting others more than me and I am not a danger to others then I am done wearing it unless someone specifically asks me to.
This is reasonable, particularly when you are around people that you trust when they say theyâve been vaccinated. Seems risky on a population level to lift all restrictions without requiring some kind of verification of vaccination for maskless people, given our current level of vaccination and how widely the virus is still spreading even in our country (the case numbers are still around the peak of the initial wave). Your point above about higher vaccination rates in the elderly does at least suggest the population risk is lower. But keeping hospitalization rates below capacity is key, as illustrated by whatâs happening in Brazil with little kids and covid:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/world/americas/brazil-covid-child-deaths.html
Hopefully our current vaccination rates and who has been vaccinated will help keep us below those crisis levels even as restrictions are almost entirely lifted.
I think you are struggling with context. Certainly the post I shared was a pro, mask donât help post. In support of their stance they posted 10-20 studies supporting their conclusion. At no point did they or I say these are the only mask studies out there and there are none supporting wearing mask. However, when youâre taking a pro stance on something it wouldnât make sense to post studies counter to your argument. Have you ever witnessed a debate?
Again my stance is, after reading through these studies (both masks help and masks donât help in a communal setting) is that itâs inconclusive. The CDC has published studies that support both conclusions on their website. For me, there certainly isnât enough conclusive evidence that would support a mandate.
I wore one when required pre-vaccination. Since being vaccinated I no longer will wear one. Just my decision.