If this is in response to my comment, then my reason for the questions is less about my own individual safety (though I donât really want the increased risk if we could avoid it easily, small amounts of risk start to add up with a large enough number of people involved). Itâs more that we still have only about 37%-47% of the population vaccinated, which is a large enough number of unvaccinated people to overwhelm our health care system if transmission rises and superspreader events can still happen. I also remain concerned about potential longer term effects to kids (many of whom canât get vaccinated yet) from getting even mild cases of Covid if we let it spread through them. It still seems to be low incidence, but Iâm not sure we know enough yet to rule out wider issues with heart and lungs, and overall fitness. Finally, I still have concerns about what will happen here if new variants come that spread more quickly, are even slightly better at evading vaccines, and have stronger effects on kids (the India variant seems to do all of these, though probably not enough to really hurt vaccinated people yet) at a time when all of our precautions are removed. NYC at the beginning of this is what can happen to even a modern health care system when there are few or belated checks on transmission, and that was with a variant that had much lower transmission capabilities than the most common variants now.
Iâm also assuming that most unvaccinated people will ignore recommendations on precautions if nobody is checking / requiring it. If we could rely on people to follow CDC recommendations for unvaccinated people, lowering the risk of overwhelming the hospitals and the general rise in risk for vaccinated and unvaccinated people, then Iâd feel differently.
I agree on the trampolines. My oldest went to a birthday party at a trampoline park. Those things are crazy, I have no idea how they avoid massive lawsuits. We didnât do anymore after I watched a kid almost break his neck right in front of me, and another kid broke his arm while we were there.
I have no problem with adults riding motorcycles if we could avoid it affecting everyoneâs insurance premiums. I wouldnât even care if they wear helmets as long as I donât have to pay more to cover someone else taking on that risk.
The healthcare system didnât get overwhelmed when nobody was vaccinated and we had no idea how to treat this and the virus was at itâs peak.
This virus will never go away completelyâŚever. And even if 70%-80% of the population gets vaccinated this year, it will be half that next year then the next then the next. Like the flu shot is now.
If your fear of IF this happens and IF this happens and IF this happens is legitâŚyouâre gonna be stuck in an endless cycle of fear foreverâŚwhich is sad.
AgainâŚit will sound callous but that type of hypersensitive fear towards a virus with a 99.999% survival rate for most healthy people under 60 , that we know how to treat and we have a vaccine for is your problem and not everyone elseâs.
What in the fucking hell are you talking about? Did you sleep through what happened in NYC? Italy? And lots of other places.
We were using convention centers as makeshift ICUs, and refrigerator trucks as morgues for the thousands we couldnât help. We ran out of ventilators, and hospital staff were having breakdowns from despair and exhaustion.
Is that what the narrative is going to be now?
New York was the worst because Cuomo literally sent the virus to every nursing home he could findâŚand they ordered extra ventilators that were never used and a ship was sent to treat overflow that was also never used. Iâm guessing going forward no one will stash infected people in nursing homes again but if they doâŚthen yes we could have another NY type issue.
But againâŚthe fear mongerers want to use that 1 poorly mismanaged exception and throw out a blanket statement that it represents the standard for what happened everywhere and why we should be so scared.
NY was a one off clusterfuc#$ not what was experienced in the majority of the country.
If you honestly believe what happened in NY is what we have to worry about as a countryâŚnow that we know how to treat thisâŚnow that we have a vaccineâŚnow that we know not to send infected people to hang out in nursing homesâŚthen I donât know what to tell you.
It wasnât just NYC.
But you answered my question. Reality doesnât matter, again.
Oh yeah, you mentioned Italy too.
Last I checked Italy is not in our healthcare system.
So your 2 prime examples of fear of overrunning OUR healthcare system were a country not in our healthcare system and the most poorly run jacked up one off example you could find.
Solid argument.
So yes based on that argumentâŚit really doesnât matter, again.
Donât really feel like getting into a back and forth with you again. Iâll just say youâre wrong about what happened in NYC, wrong about survival rates, wrong about it never going away, and wrong about me.
Scroll up. I am not repeating months of discussion of the topic or pulling up a Google search for you simply because you canât or choose not to remember. If you wanted to know, you would. Itâs all there.
Again, you answered my question. Reality is once again not part of the narrative.
And I know your m.o. in an argument. You are a tireless debater who never ever concedes a point. Go ahead and take your victory lap because I wonât be replying to you.
Reality!?
We know the most succeptible to this virus is the elderly/nursing homes = reality
We certainly know better how to treat this now = reality
There is a vaccine now = reality
NY was an exception caused by enormous nursing home deaths = reality & not wrong
The survival rate for those healthy under 60 is 99.99% = reality & not wrong
I know your M.O. in an argument tooâŚignore everything that is said that is contrary to your argument or blindly claim it is false just because it doesnât fit your narrative.
At the end of the day itâs a choiceâŚto live in fear or not.
There are some that choose to live in fearâŚthatâs fine. You do you. Like you said, Iâm not changing your mind and you wonât change mind.
Some people are scared of heights and others are not. Some are scared of snakes and others are not.
Letâs just agree to disagreeâŚand you continue to live in fear for as long as you like and I wonât.
Neither one affects the other at all.
A different number than your original post (might closer to accurate at least), another wrong statement along with some obvious ones no one is arguing. But we can agree to disagree if you like.
So is this Reality?
From the US Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
The absolute risk of COVID-19 death as of June 17, 2020 for people <65 years old in high-income countries ranged from 10 (Germany) to 349 per million (New Jersey) . (If you do the mathâŚ10 to 349 per million is 99.999-99.96%)
Conclusions
People <65 years old have very small risks of COVID-19 death even in pandemic epicenters and deaths for people <65 years without underlying predisposing conditions are remarkably uncommon. Strategies focusing specifically on protecting high-risk elderly individuals should be considered in managing the pandemic.
Or is this reality?
The article states nursing homes account for 40% of all Covid deaths and 8 out of 10 deaths are 65yrs and older. (80% of ALL Covid deaths are 65yrs and older - that would mean roughly 2400 deaths in NC were under the age of 65))
Albany Channel 7 reports that over 15,000 deaths in NY came from nursing homes. (Thatâs more deaths than 39 states have TOTAL deathsâŚthatâs DOUBLE the TOTAL death count in 29 states)
I guess thatâs not reality either?
Or thisâŚ
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2
In January, Nature asked more than 100 immunologists, infectious-disease researchers and virologists working on the coronavirus whether it could be eradicated. Almost 90% of respondents think that the coronavirus will become endemic â meaning that it will continue to circulate in pockets of the global population for years to come
âEradicating this virus right now from the world is a lot like trying to plan the construction of a stepping-stone pathway to the Moon. Itâs unrealistic,â says Michael Osterholm, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.
Every. Single. Thing. Iâve mentioned is 100% reality like it or not.
Iâm done with thisâŚweâre getting nowhere and it doesnât matter anyway.
I was sort of hoping with the declining infection rate, we would see a declining argument rate.
Thought we were agreeing to disagree.
None of what you posted validated your earlier incorrect statements (funny that youâre including Germany to back up your earlier numbers given how they responded to the pandemic). Youâve supported some obvious statements that no one was questioning though.
Do you want to agree to disagree now?
I donât expect our healthcare system to get overwhelmed going forward mostly because the at risk for hospitalization crowd has mostly been vaccinated. On top of that we have better treatment to avoid ICU usage such as just having patients lay in their stomachs.
I think itâs fair to say our (As in the US) healthcare system came no where close to getting overwhelmed. Did pockets get overwhelmed? Absolutely and it made for some disturbing issues and images. NY being the main culprit and the mismanagement there has certainly been documented.
I think itâs safe to say 90-95% of all hospitals made it through this okay and had nothing to worry about.
The State of NC hoapital system was completely disrupted and over ran especially in January and February. I know this because my family lived thru it. Elective surgeries were shut down and all hands were on deck from Christmas till end of February. My wife was forced to work 12 hour shifts on a Covid floor for 6 weeks with no missed days allowed unless you had Covid. She had not worked on a floor in 25 years but it did not matter⌠Patients were sharing oxygen because of shortages and in February patients were being transported all the way to the Coast depending on condition and chance of survival if a bed opened up. On any day in February you could have up to 10 to 15 people waiting on an ICU bed in the ER and a day surgery floor had to be reconstructed to an ICU. Less than ideal for patient care. Some hospitals were offering over 12k a month with housing for free fior traveling nurses or recently retired. My wife worked with an 82 year old nurse for a week who had been retired 20 years but volunteered to come back because of shortages. Now some might say that is still not " overwhelmed" but it is as close as you want to come if you do not like third world country care. Most people do not understand the limited amount of ICU beds in their area or more importantly the limited amount of human resources trained in respiratory care that has to take care of them.