Get rid of Lutz, please.

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
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[QUOTE=49erFan1;151643]For everyone who claims that Beasley is our savior. If I may point out that Rodney White had Jobey Thomas, Diego Guevarra, Cam Stephens and many other talented players and we still weren’t a very good basketball team. Beasley won’t be THAT much better than Rodney chances are. If we want this team to make a serious run, we have to think about changing the man in charge. Maybe not now, but in the future.[/QUOTE]

I call BS on this. The Rodney White team was awesome. Missing Colson and Young, this team beat State on the road by 17, best Miami by 30, SC by 20, survived a cosmic loss to Indiana and an injury to Rodney to win the tourney. We were an excellent basketball team then, just young.

Tintin

142

[QUOTE=Tintin;151672]I call BS on this. The Rodney White team was awesome. Missing Colson and Young, this team beat State on the road by 17, best Miami by 30, SC by 20, survived a cosmic loss to Indiana and an injury to Rodney to win the tourney. We were an excellent basketball team then, just young.

Tintin[/QUOTE]

We were good, not great. Remember, that team was probably our deepest and most physically talented in recent memory and I dont think they were in the top 25 for more than a week or two, and were never in jeopordy of getting to the sweet 16.

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We were good, not great. Remember, that team was probably our deepest and most physically talented in recent memory and I dont think they were in the top 25 for more than a week or two, and were never in jeopordy of getting to the sweet 16.

We had a losing streak in that season if I remember right…

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I call BS on this. The Rodney White team was awesome. Missing Colson and Young, this team beat State on the road by 17, best Miami by 30, SC by 20, survived a cosmic loss to Indiana and an injury to Rodney to win the tourney. We were an excellent basketball team then, just young.

Tintin

How many games did we win that year?

22

How many did we lose

11

That’s not a wonderful record. All we did was beat a Tennessee team that backdoored its way into the tourney having lost 6 of its last 8 games. We had to come back to do it. Then Illinois whalloped us in the 2nd round. Say what you want about the 8/9 seed, but if we were that good we would have gotten the job done in the regular season and not have been seeded so lowly. My point being is that the team that year had much more talent than the Beasley team probably will. If Lutz couldn’t get it done with one freshman phenom, will a 2nd chance make any difference?

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[QUOTE=49erFan1;151682]How many games did we win that year?

22

How many did we lose

11

That’s not a wonderful record. All we did was beat a Tennessee team that backdoored its way into the tourney having lost 6 of its last 8 games. We had to come back to do it. Then Illinois whalloped us in the 2nd round. Say what you want about the 8/9 seed, but if we were that good we would have gotten the job done in the regular season and not have been seeded so lowly. My point being is that the team that year had much more talent than the Beasley team probably will. If Lutz couldn’t get it done with one freshman phenom, will a 2nd chance make any difference?[/QUOTE]

Rodney missed 5 games that season with a knee injury. We won 3 of those games against Marquette, DePaul, and USM, but lost to SLU and UAB. Those two losses made a big difference in our seed. If Rodney plays we are likely 24-9, and were likely a 5-6 seed. Someone else mentioned the youth of that team. That seemed to show in several games, but the Indiana and Houston games is where it showed the most. Nevertheless, if we don’t get butchered by the refs in the Illinois game we could have been in the Sweet 16 or beyond that season.

146

That season had a lot of ups and downs. SLU beat us twice, at home as X mentioned when Rodney was out and at their place (of course) which most Niners remember as the game where Rodney had 18 missed dunks.

We also lost on a last-second drive against Saint Bonaventure, and who can forget the ASU tournament?

But who can forget some of those blowouts? We torched so many teams that year, and made Denny Crum retire. I miss doing that.

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Nevertheless, if we don't get butchered by the refs in the Illinois game we could have been in the Sweet 16 or beyond that season.

The officiating was bad but I think that game pretty much showed how poorly we matched up against a big, physical team. They completely wore us out in the paint because of their size and aggression. It was clear after that, that we needed to focus more on conditioning. We’ve definitely come a long way in terms of our physical style of play.

The Rod injury was a bad blow. Could have easily won all five of those game if not for that and as you said, had a better seed. No way of knowing if it would have made a difference in how far we progressed but it certainly wouldn’t have hurt.

One thing is for sure: Our inability to advance in the NCAA Tournament is far more related to how we perform in November/December than how we perform in March. We shoot ourselves in the feet by our early flops that put us in that 8/9 game.

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Yep, we torched a lot of big name teams that season. We had a lot of weapons and were clicking on all cylinders in most games. We also had guys who played with heart: Diego, Jobey, Demon, Cam, Kenkay Jones, James Zimmerman.

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[QUOTE=jcl49er;151709]We shoot ourselves in the feet by our early flops that put us in that 8/9 game.[/QUOTE]

Exactly… that is the point I was trying to make. We are good for at least 3 flops per year… sometimes against really bad teams. When you only play 26 or so regular season games you can’t afford to “flop” in over 10% of them and expect to get a good (4-6) NCAA seed.

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We also had guys who played with heart: Diego, Jobey, Demon, Cam, Kenkay Jones, James Zimmerman.

I’d love for the current team to play with just half the heart those guys had. When you compare the two squads, it’s like night and day in terms of their obvious on-court passion. There was also far better chemistry with those guys and more unity.

151

So I think we’ve come to the conclusion that Lutz can win and has done it before. Assuming he hasn’t lost his passion to lead the Charlotte 49ers, it’s just a matter of finding the right guys to get us back to where we were. Playing with passion, running his system, playing defense and winning big games. I hope the 4 freshmen and 2 talented JUCOS followed by Beasley, Harman and others will point us in that direction.

I do agree with many that the system needs to be modified so that teams like this one (7 new players) can get off to better starts and beat the teams we are superior to.

Defense can win games when the offense isn’t clicking and a motion offense with more dribble penetration opens up the offense and gets you easier shots.

I hope we see more effort and better execution tonight.

152

I personally think that Lutz is having a rough year partly due to his team. I think he is extremely disappointed because he knows how much talent he has currently but they are not playing up to their potential. A lot of his poor coaching during games is probably due to his team not following what he teaches. Now don’t get me wrong. I am not 100% completely sticking up for Lutz here. He is showing a little “I don’t care” attitude and that could be due to the fact that he could be elsewhere. That should be no excuse. If he wants to get somewhere, he needs to find some way to get his team in line and win some games.

153

Lutz is an outstanding recruiter but an inadequate in-game coach. The talent on the floor dictates how far the team will go, they never over-achieve unless the three’s are falling. His chuck-and-duck offense doesn’t look so efficient when there’s no Plavich to bail it out.

154

There’s no reason to repeat all the reasons why Lutz has been a good coach for us or to repeat all the fundamental problems this year’s team has had. I think everyone sees Lutz as a good administrator of the team but a bad coach.

I’ve come to the conclusion that Lutz is not a bad head coach at all. In fact, I’ve been very pleased at his post-games lately - pointing out why he’s unsatisfied with the team, even after a win. The technicals were dumb, but I think Lutz understands that. I think Lutz understands that things are going wrong, but they aren’t getting corrected.

I’ve also come to the conclusion that if the head coach is solid, then there must be something seriously wrong with his staff. Has anyone considered replacing Lutz with Benny Moss, Bobby Kummer or Dalonte Hill??? (ok - there have been a lot of requests for Dalonte - but it’s based on his relationship with the players, not his coaching)

Can someone more knowledgable than me breakdown what exactly his assistants do? If their job is to get the team playing well together, than the team’s recent play has to reflect poorly on their coaching performances.

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[QUOTE=LeftyNiner;151721]So I think we’ve come to the conclusion that Lutz can win and has done it before. Assuming he hasn’t lost his passion to lead the Charlotte 49ers, it’s just a matter of finding the right guys to get us back to where we were. Playing with passion, running his system, playing defense and winning big games. I hope the 4 freshmen and 2 talented JUCOS followed by Beasley, Harman and others will point us in that direction.

I do agree with many that the system needs to be modified so that teams like this one (7 new players) can get off to better starts and beat the teams we are superior to.

Defense can win games when the offense isn’t clicking and a motion offense with more dribble penetration opens up the offense and gets you easier shots.[/QUOTE]

BS Lefty…you still don’t get it. His “system” only works when guys are hitting 3s out of their minds, then that’s when we upset a team like Cincy or Louisville. We don’t play any defense, we don’t have patience on offense, and we don’t have any fundamentals. To top it off, this year our coach doesn’t have any passion and the players out there either don’t buy into what he’s screaming at them, or they are a victim of this horrible, junk run and gun offense. Plus, the players look uninspired and act is if they are going through the motions.

I think most opponents have figured out that all they have to do is play a solid game and we will find a way to beat ourselves because we aren’t coached well (or at all, however you want to look at it). The bottom line is that in the last 3 years, all we have done is continually regress into a streetball team with streetball talent to match. With the kind of kids we get, they don’t motivate themselves, therefore you have to have a good motivator as a coach.

The bottom line is that if all of you haven’t seen the regression, you are either a big time homer, or you aren’t paying attention. I don’t know which is worse at this point, but dammit, wake up!

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[QUOTE=ATL_Niner;151765]BS Lefty…you still don’t get it. His “system” only works when guys are hitting 3s out of their minds, then that’s when we upset a team like Cincy or Louisville. We don’t play any defense, we don’t have patience on offense, and we don’t have any fundamentals. To top it off, this year our coach doesn’t have any passion and the players out there either don’t buy into what he’s screaming at them, or they are a victim of this horrible, junk run and gun offense. Plus, the players look uninspired and act is if they are going through the motions.

I think most opponents have figured out that all they have to do is play a solid game and we will find a way to beat ourselves because we aren’t coached well (or at all, however you want to look at it). The bottom line is that in the last 3 years, all we have done is continually regress into a streetball team with streetball talent to match. With the kind of kids we get, they don’t motivate themselves, therefore you have to have a good motivator as a coach.

The bottom line is that if all of you haven’t seen the regression, you are either a big time homer, or you aren’t paying attention. I don’t know which is worse at this point, but dammit, wake up![/QUOTE]

I don’t have time to go through the last three years and bring up every game, so I’ll point to two that you brought up. In 2004 we upset Louisville at home (without Demon) and lost to Cincy at home (after having beat them up there). In both games we made 6 threes. Against Louisville we were 6-24 from downtown, and we were 6-23 against Cincy. Plavich was 4-12 and 4-13, respectfully. We outrebounded our opponent in both games, by 7 against UL and by 6 against Cincy. Withers was 8-10 from the field against Louisville and 8-12 against Cincy. We were 19-29 from the charity stripe against Louisville and 19-23 against Cincy. We had 14 turnovers against Louisville and 12 against Cincy. All of those stats would indicate that the end result should have been the same or the result should have been worse against Louisville. It reality, it was not. I use these two games because they were good opponents and the stats were eerily similar. Yet, one was a win and one was a loss. The only glaring difference in the two games was our point guard production. Everyone remembers the end-to-end gallop by Mitch in the last minute after the Garcia 3, but his play in the two games was noticably different. Against UL he had 13 points and 6 assists. Against Cincy, he had 3 points and 1 assist. He didn’t play as much in the Cincy game from being both ineffective and in foul trouble. There are some small flaws in the system, but it comes down to execution. If you want to argue that the non-execution is the fault of the coach, do so. He’s not the one missing shots and making turnovers, though. Again, the system was “brilliant” when we beat UL but flawed when we lost to Cincy. I don’t believe the system to be all that flawed, just the execution of it. A point guard that can shoot [B]AND/OR [/B]penetrate would help solve a lot of problems. I love Mitch and the way he plays when he’s got that fire, but his shooting has not improved in his 5 years here and opponents know exactly how to defend us when he’s in the lineup.

157

[QUOTE=X-49er;151774] The only glaring difference in the two games was our point guard production. Everyone remembers the end-to-end gallop by Mitch in the last minute after the Garcia 3, but his play in the two games was noticably different. Against UL he had 13 points and 6 assists. Against Cincy, he had 3 points and 1 assist. He didn’t play as much in the Cincy game from being both ineffective and in foul trouble. There are some small flaws in the system, but it comes down to execution. [/QUOTE]

100% dead on. If people on a message board can figure it out…why can’t Lutz ?

The personnel (at least the starting 5) & the system DO NOT fit this season.

I’m sure the following will be taken the wrong way, but so be it…at this point of the season & with everything that has happened on the court, I’m don’t really care about wins the rest of the way. Lutz needs to quit trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.

He’s given certain players on this team too many chances to prove their worth to this team. Like it or not, nobody is more important than THE TEAM.

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I'm sure the following will be taken the wrong way, but so be it.............at this point of the season & with everything that has happened on the court, I'm don't really care about wins the rest of the way. Lutz needs to quit trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.

He’s given certain players on this team too many chances to prove their worth to this team. Like it or not, nobody is more important than THE TEAM.

I agree. We’re not getting in the NCAA Tournament unless we pull off a miracle at the conference tourney and personally, I could not possibly have less interest in a NIT run. With that said, I’d much rather see us start developing the guys that are going to be here next year. I know it’s been said already but Mitch needs to sit. He’s bringing nothing to the table and there’s no reason to keep forcing the issue when he’s not even going to be here next season. Same goes for the other seniors who aren’t playing up to par. Let the other guys play and get some more experience.

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Now that the NCAA owns the NIT will they develop it into something other than the leftovers tourrnament? Don’t forget, in '76 we went to the Finals of the NIT and in '77 we went to the Final Four of the NCAA. I’d take that two year run again beginning this year. I don’t believe we are on that track, but I would happily take it.

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[QUOTE=4AMer;151626][QUOTE=LeftyNiner;151616]He/we would definitely have better talent top to bottom in one of those power conferences. Any guy that we recruited that ended up in the ACC, BE, or SEC would have been more likely to play for him. We’ve missed on some major talent and didn’t even go after bigtime players because it’s a waste of time. WE have to pick our battles. So yes, I think he would have a better team if he coached in one of those conferences. QUOTE]

Lefty, first I love your loyalty and enthusiasm.

As far as talent, we have an Honorable mention All-American who has excelled in World Competition (Withers), a Top 50 HS kid (Alexander) a NC Player of the Year (Baldwin) and a sophmore guard averaging 12 points per game (Goldwire).

The talent is there…the system is at fault. For example, do you think the talent is significantly better at Tennessee or West Virginia? They’re not stocked with McD all-americans. We’re pulling from basically the same talent pool as they are…and Withers, Alexander and probably Goldwire would start for either of them. The difference is that those teams know how to play the game, which is a direct reflection of the coach. They execute on offense - feed the post, back door cuts, ball movement, player movement, etc…play extremely hard on defense and have a clue what to do in an organized fast break with primary, secondary and tertiary options.

We do NONE of those things…and it’s a direct reflection of the coach. Do you think the kids at UT & WVU showed up with exceedingly high basketball IQ’s? No they were the same kids, who like our players, dominated at the HS level so they didn’t need to learn how to play. The difference is that they were TAUGHT how to play once they got in their coach’s system.

From a pure basketball fan’s perspective, it is a pleasure to watch both of those teams play. They both play hard and execute…and Pearl and Beilein are the reason. They both took basically the same talent as the previous coach had (Catlett and Peterson) and instilled their own SOUND BASKETBALL PHILOSOPHY and saw immediate improvement.

The problem is Lutz has a FLAWED PHILOSPHY and it is reflected in the play of our team. And sadly…he’s too hard-headed to change.

If we came out and played hard every night and executed basic fundamental basketball, do you think you would hear the number of complaints that have been growing over the past couple of years?[/QUOTE]

I honestly beleive this is the best post ever on this board. It is absolutely right on. Moderators, make this guy a Big Man on Campus right now.

Seriously, very well stated.