[QUOTE=ozmosis49er;407833]Grunge = :weep:whining in musical form.[/QUOTE]
That is just ignorant. And, for the record Grunge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heavy metal.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;407834]They may have sold 100 million records, but that doesn’t mean 100 million people bought their albums…{blah, blah, blah}…
Metallica …are the most commercially viable metal band, but that doesn’t always mean the best, just the most popular. A greatest list is almost always going to be subjective, and if you try to quantify it with album sales you’re going to lose what makes art so great.[/QUOTE]
(Just trimming it down to the high points)
Agreed.
Good post, PB.
And on the Soulja Boy example…ok, so he “only” sold 2 or 3 million. You mean to tell me there aren’t a ****load of groups/bands/artists that are 1000-fold better than he is, but haven’t sold nearly as many records? If anyone tries to argue with me in serious context that Soulja Boy is a great musical artist, I swear I will come to your house and take a dump on your front lawn.
Moreover, to use the aforementioned argument about buying albums solely for a single (e.g. Soulja Boy), how many people bought one of those 22 million copies of Metallica’s Black Album solely because “Enter Sandman Kicks ASS!!!”???
[QUOTE=ozmosis49er;407833]Grunge = :weep:whining in musical form.[/QUOTE]
So Alice in Chains is whining music.
[QUOTE=s9er;407839]So Alice in Chains is whining music.[/QUOTE]
I’m getting the impression this is a younger kid.
"Enter Sandman Kicks ASS!!!"???
I can’t stand that freaking song
[QUOTE=49erDrummer;407836](Just trimming it down to the high points)
Agreed.
Good post, PB.
And on the Soulja Boy example…ok, so he “only” sold 2 or 3 million. You mean to tell me there aren’t a ****load of groups/bands/artists that are 1000-fold better than he is, but haven’t sold nearly as many records? If anyone tries to argue with me in serious context that Soulja Boy is a great musical artist, I swear I will come to your house and take a dump on your front lawn.
Moreover, to use the aforementioned argument about buying albums solely for a single (e.g. Soulja Boy), how many people bought one of those 22 million copies of Metallica’s Black Album solely because “Enter Sandman Kicks ASS!!!”???[/QUOTE]
You brought up Soulja Boy first, not me. Soulja Boy is terrible, “eenie, meanie, minie, MO!” was an awful affront to the human ear and affirmed to many people rap had lost all legitimacy it might have had; the guy should rot in hell. Yes, album sells don’t [I]necessarily[/I] mean that one band is technically “superior” to another, yet I am pretty sure the goal music, as an art form, is to get whatever the band/ artist wants to say out to as much listeners as possible. And, you are right, I am sure the 22 million people who bought The Black Album got it because of “Enter Sandman,” but I am sure most of the 22 million enjoyed the other songs on the album afterwards. What about the Beatles, or the Who? I am pretty sure many people bought albums from them because they only heard “Hey Jude,” or “Baba O’riley.”
“We,” as in the country “we” live in, the United States, which contain 300 million people. If 57 million were sold here, thats about 1/6th of our population…that is pretty significant, right? I am also 100% certain that most of the 100 million dumb people that bought Metallica also bought many other albums from other bands like Soundgarden, does that devalue those other bands any? I think it is also very possible that those 22 million people that let other people other then themselves listen to the album.
[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;407844]I can’t stand that freaking song[/QUOTE]
A lot of people do not like “Enter Sandman” because its one of the most overplayed song ever.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;407835]And, for the record Grunge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heavy metal.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
I am pretty sure Heavy Metal is a larger genre than Grunge.
[QUOTE=s9er;407839]So Alice in Chains is whining music.[/QUOTE]
“Man in the Box” is a pretty whiny song, even the repeating riff that goes “waah, we, waah waah, waah”
For the Anthrax fans, do you prefer the Joey Belladonna era or the John Bush era?
"We," as in the country "we" live in, the United States, which contain 300 million people. If 57 million were sold here, thats about 1/6th of our population...that is pretty significant, right? I am also 100% certain that most of the 100 million dumb people that bought Metallica also bought many other albums from other bands like Soundgarden, does that devalue those other bands any? I think it is also very possible that those 22 million people that let other people other then themselves listen to the album.
Very few bands, regardless of genre, can sell a lot of albums and not be viewed as sell outs by the purists. I’m not completely sure why that is but I think it’s mostly because they get overplayed and the purists just get tired of hearing their music. But I agree with you. The # of albums that both Led Zeppelin and Metallica sold can’t be just coincidence or totally do to marketing. At one point in time Metallica was the “Up and Coming Never Been Heard Of” band.
Eric Clapton is one that comes to mind, who has had huge success, but I don’t believe is considered a sell out. Some may argue that his blues album was a sell out but I think he was just doing something that he really enjoyed. And speaking of Clapton, nobody has mentioned The Yardbirds as being one of the more influential heavy metal bands.
What about Smashing Pumpkins? I know they’re not typical Heavy Metal but they’re hard to put into a genre.
[QUOTE=Normmm;407856]Very few bands, regardless of genre, can sell a lot of albums and not be viewed as sell outs by the purists. I’m not completely sure why that is but I think it’s mostly because they get overplayed and the purists just get tired of hearing their music. But I agree with you. The # of albums that both Led Zeppelin and Metallica sold can’t be just coincidence or totally do to marketing. At one point in time Metallica was the “Up and Coming Never Been Heard Of” band.
Eric Clapton is one that comes to mind, who has had huge success, but I don’t believe is considered a sell out. Some may argue that his blues album was a sell out but I think he was just doing something that he really enjoyed. And speaking of Clapton, nobody has mentioned The Yardbirds as being one of the more influential heavy metal bands.
What about Smashing Pumpkins? I know they’re not typical Heavy Metal but they’re hard to put into a genre.[/QUOTE]
I think the idea of selling out is so ridiculously stupid. There are a lot of factors that go into writing and performing music. The biggest drawback, as far as artistic merit, to success is that you lose your edge because you’re not as angry. I mean, it happens to most artists. It is hard to have the same feelings of despair when you are rich and don’t have to struggle anymore. And, when a band who has made it big writes a song that harkens back to when they were not so lucky, it comes off as contrived. For a good example see Green Day’s “Boulevard of Broken Dreams.”
nickelback sells a lot of records and is very popular. case closed. i’d rather listen to people dying
Very few bands, regardless of genre, can sell a lot of albums and not be viewed as sell outs by the purists. I'm not completely sure why that is but I think it's mostly because they get overplayed and the purists just get tired of hearing their music. But I agree with you. The # of albums that both Led Zeppelin and Metallica sold can't be just coincidence or totally do to marketing. At one point in time Metallica was the "Up and Coming Never Been Heard Of" band.Eric Clapton is one that comes to mind, who has had huge success, but I don’t believe is considered a sell out. Some may argue that his blues album was a sell out but I think he was just doing something that he really enjoyed. And speaking of Clapton, nobody has mentioned The Yardbirds as being one of the more influential heavy metal bands.
What about Smashing Pumpkins? I know they’re not typical Heavy Metal but they’re hard to put into a genre.
I think the purists are suspicious of successful bands because you usually need corporate backing to sell those kinds of numbers. Corporations tend to stick to “safe” music, i.e. it is almost guaranteed to sell (or at least it’s possible through payola). The purists I think take this as a sign that the band is no longer edgy enough to be too dangerous for corporate execs, and there likely is pressure from execs to alter songs to sell to a mass audience in some cases.
Also, people identify themselves so much by the music they listen to, that those folks who strive to be unique get pissed when their music gains mass appeal, because it suggests they are not so unique after all.
[QUOTE=ninerball49;407862]nickelback sells a lot of records and is very popular. case closed. i’d rather listen to people dying[/QUOTE]
Now that is funny
Smashing pumpkins = hard rock, right?I think the purists are suspicious of successful bands because you usually need corporate backing to sell those kinds of numbers. Corporations tend to stick to “safe” music, i.e. it is almost guaranteed to sell (or at least it’s possible through payola). The purists I think take this as a sign that the band is no longer edgy enough to be too dangerous for corporate execs, and there likely is pressure from execs to alter songs to sell to a mass audience in some cases.
Also, people identify themselves so much by the music they listen to, that those folks who strive to be unique get pissed when their music gains mass appeal, because it suggests they are not so unique after all.
Agreed. Although I’m not sure that’s true for Metallica. I believe they had a hard time getting their music on the radio early on, they would drop an F-bomb or 2, and still sold well.
nickelback sells a lot of records and is very popular. case closed. i'd rather listen to people dying
Ha! Very true. I know “Rockstar” was cheesey as he** but I loved it.
[QUOTE=ninerball49;407862]nickelback sells a lot of records and is very popular. case closed. i’d rather listen to people dying[/QUOTE]
give them a break, they are canadian 
and on the topic of selling out, just listen to the song “Hooker with a Penis” by Tool, think that pretty much sums up that argument.
give them a break, they are canadian :tongue:and on the topic of selling out, just listen to the song “Hooker with a Penis” by Tool, think that pretty much sums up that argument.
Did you catch Tool back in 07? I saw them in Greenville and Winston-Salem. I’m trying to catch them at Lollapalooza in Chicago this summer.
First of all, to go back a few posts, grunge was great music. Alice In Chains is one of the best groups of the nineties. Jerry Cantrell and Layne Stayley’s vocals were unbelievable and their vocal harmonies were unheard of for hard rock or metal. Second of all, major props to Normmm for bringing up the Yardbirds, fantastic pre cursor to Zeppelin. After all, three of the greatest guitarists (in my opinion) passed through that group. Third, I think a group is good if you have a hard time putting them in a category. For example, Tool, is freaking awesome. I saw them live here in Charlotte in 2001 and they have been a favorite of mine since Aenima came out. Another example, Rage Against the Machine, may not have been the first to combine rap and metal, but they are still (again in my opinion) the most innovative group I have ever heard.
[QUOTE=CPA_Niner;407853]For the Anthrax fans, do you prefer the Joey Belladonna era or the John Bush era?[/QUOTE]
John Bush all day.
The songs during the Joey era were great, don’t get me wrong…I’m just not a big fan of Joey as a singer.
John Bush was, in my opinion, a better fit for the band. I loved Armored Saint too, but I still thought he sounded better with Anthrax.
[QUOTE=ozmosis49er;407830]I disagree, I don’t think 100 million people are dumb, otherwise the planet would be in big trouble. Soulja Boy also sold at most 2-3 million, and most of the sales were based on his only hit single. Also, apparently you can’t argue in this thread, most people who are “music buff’s” will just scoff at you because you are not cool enough to “truely appreciate” small bands, who happen to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Tool started as a “heavy metal” band with Undertow, but evolved into a Progressive Rock/ Art Rock genre once Lateralus came out.[/QUOTE]
they were delving into prog rock long before Lateralus. Aenima in particular, but even on Undertow they had some pretty crazy time signatures.
Grunge = :weep:whining in musical form.
Grunge was basically what emo is today, but a whole lot cooler. It’s all a form of counterculture. In the 60s it was hippies.
And by the way I started a grunge thread a couple months ago. Although I think I just said early to mid-nineties rock as the thread title. But you know what I was referring to.