High Point, Nov 9... this may help some

49ers Basketball Forum šŸ€
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[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;264512]Heā€™s not saying that HP has no chance against us, heā€™s saying b/c of the disparity between the two schools, we should not be in this predicament where we are susceptible to losing to them. Heā€™s making his case that if we do lose to them, bags should be packed b/c thatā€™s how far weā€™ve dropped. Not saying I agree or disagree, but Iā€™m pretty sure thatā€™s what heā€™s trying to get across.[/QUOTE]

Nobody would argue that we [B]should not[/B] lose to them because we should be far above them each and every year. But this was thrown out:

[QUOTE]Please stop the stats of the mighty big south. of 32 conferences (including independents) they were the 29th best conference. Winthrop had an RPI of 70, as said earlier HP was at 185, the rest of the conference was 283-330 (only 336 teams are rated total)

HPā€™s best win last year was to #172 Loyola MD, next best #249 UNC Asheville. Lost to #317 TN Martin to start the season, 307 Longwood, 283 Liberty, and ended the season to #297 VMI. [/QUOTE]

I donā€™t care who they lost to last season, the bottom line is that they were only 39 spots behind us in the RPI, and we lost 4 starters. SHOULD means nothing. If all the Bobby haters are already preparing their case should we lose, then they are ignoring the facts going into the game and simply setting up their cry of ā€œwe lost to High Point, Lutz needs to be firedā€. This is not 1997-2002 Niner basketball. I hope we get back to that level soon, but this team is very young and has a lot to learn, and to prove.

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I don't care who they lost to last season, the bottom line is that they were only 39 spots behind us in the RPI, and we lost 4 starters. SHOULD means nothing. If all the Bobby haters are already preparing their case should we lose, then they are ignoring the facts going into the game and simply setting up their cry of "we lost to High Point, Lutz needs to be fired". This is not 1997-2002 Niner basketball. I hope we get back to that level soon, but this team is very young and has a lot to learn, and to prove.

I think its a terrible thing if we lose to high point, you think its not that bad, who has higher regards for the program me or you?

Who is responsible for 2003-2007?

All I am trying to say is that the drop off from a big east team to a cusa team is not as big, especially considering 5 teams from CUSA are now in the Big East, as the drop from an a10 school to a big south school.

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[QUOTE=ninerID;264521]I think its a terrible thing if we lose to high point, you think its not that bad, who has higher regards for the program me or you?[/QUOTE]

What is that supposed to mean? You think I like it when we lose. Get real. The whole point of my posts is to make some of you believe that it is possible to lose to High Point and that BY THE NUMBERS itā€™s not a stretch to suggest it.

[QUOTE=ninerID;264521]
Who is responsible for 2003-2007?[/QUOTE]

I dunno. Who is?

[QUOTE=ninerID;264521]
All I am trying to say is that the drop off from a big east team to a cusa team is not as big, especially considering 5 teams from CUSA are now in the Big East, as the drop from an a10 school to a big south school.[/QUOTE]

If we were comparing conferences instead of individual teams I would not be arguing with you, but comparing conferences is an apples to oranges comparison when youā€™re talking about one game. Just because youā€™re a member a good conference or a bad conference does not mean you are good or bad yourself, or that you canā€™t beat said team from a better conference. Which would have been a bigger upset: Houston over Pitt in 2003, or High Point over Charlotte in 2007? Winthrop is in the Big South also. Beating them either of the last two years would have been an upset for us. :unhappy:

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Me thinks that when we play Fairleigh Dickinson and Gardner Webb, by that time those games will be seen as a mis-matches (at least I hope so).

Not so with High Point and App State - they are possible postseason candidates this year (either conference champs or NIT longshots) and have something to play for besides pride. Plus, theyā€™ll be treating it like their big game. Would an outsider see the games as easy wins for Charlotte? Probably not.

Besides, in the midnight madness scrimmage, I never thought, ā€œWow! Itā€™s like theyā€™ve been playing together forever!ā€ There were quite a few missed shots and the youth showed. Cut 'em some slack early on.

I could see close games (maybe even OT) in the first two games. They are the type of opponents that should hang on until the bitter end.

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[QUOTE=ninerID;264491]Winthrop had an RPI of 70, as said earlier HP was at 185, the rest of the conference was 283-330 (only 336 teams are rated total)

HPā€™s best win last year was to #172 Loyola MD, next best #249 UNC Asheville. Lost to #317 TN Martin to start the season, 307 Longwood, 283 Liberty, and ended the season to #297 VMI.

We should never lose to High Point. Its a good story, and it is good what they are doing, and HP49er posts things on here that make them seem like they are going places, maybe they are but in 2007, in Halton Arena, we should not lose to them.[/QUOTE]
Three wins over (36) Missouri State in a bracketbuster game, (39) Old Dominion and (64) Mississippi State were decent wins. Winthrop did have an RPI of 70, thanks only to these 4 losses: (17) Texas A&M, (16) Maryland, (4) Wisconsin and (3) UNC-Chapel Hill. Take those away and where are the Eagles?

They were lucky to have an RPI of 70 due to the Big South being so pitiful. You schedule (and beat) whomever you can get games against. Should Charlotte always beat High Point? They should, but if the 49ers are not an NCAA tournament hopeful and the Panthers are a legitimate possibility, why would it be a surprise to anyone? With all the unknowns and HPUā€™s returnees, it would not surprise me in the least. Would I be disappointed? Certainly but Iā€™ve learned not to have expectations that are unreachable.

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What is that supposed to mean? You think I like it when we lose. Get real. The whole point of my posts is to make some of you believe that it is possible to lose to High Point and that BY THE NUMBERS it's not a stretch to suggest it.

Youre calling me out on lutz bashing before the season starts, and I am merely saying that we should be in a much better position to win this game than High Point on any factor you can think of, anything else would be coaching.

If we were comparing conferences instead of individual teams I would not be arguing with you, but comparing conferences is an apples to oranges comparison when you're talking about one game. Just because you're a member a good conference or a bad conference does not mean you are good or bad yourself, or that you can't beat said team from a better conference. Which would have been a bigger upset: Houston over Pitt in 2003, or High Point over Charlotte in 2007? Winthrop is in the Big South also. Beating them either of the last two years would have been an upset for us. :unhappy:

yes but generally you have about the same capital as everyone else in your conference. I would go HP over Charlotte, hands down. HP is a mid major, Houston was not. We are talking about a Houston team that played in a national championship at one time, and we are talking about a HP team that not to long ago was Division II.

Can we please stop talking about winthrop? High Point has done nothing, including not beating winthrop since 2004, when winthrop was 14-16 and had an RPI of 210, to earn the respect of thinking that High Point has the same success as Winthrop. Winthrop has dominated that league, the best high point has ever done was 2nd and that was only one year.

Bottom line, in Halton Arena we should never lose to High Point. I mean maybe its one of those if we played 25 times HP wins 1 of those, and it just happens to be their lucky night. But I feel that it would show much bigger problems than just ā€œunluckā€.

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[QUOTE=ninerID;264528] Youre calling me out on lutz bashing before the season starts, and I am merely saying that we should be in a much better position to win this game than High Point on any factor you can think of, anything else would be coaching.[/QUOTE]

I think you got the wrong quote with this follow up, because this didnā€™t make any sense with the quote you paired it with.

But again, we SHOULD be in a better position to whip High Point, but we arenā€™t. Iā€™m arguing [I]what is[/I], not [I]what should be[/I] or [I]should have been[/I].

[QUOTE=ninerID;264528]
yes but generally you have about the same capital as everyone else in your conference. I would go HP over Charlotte, hands down. HP is a mid major, Houston was not. We are talking about a Houston team that played in a national championship at one time, and we are talking about a HP team that not to long ago was Division II.[/QUOTE]

So weā€™re resorting back to 1983 glory and saying that an 03-04 Houston team with an RPI of 187 had a better chance of beating a Pitt team with an RPI of 8 versus the chance that a High Point team of last year with a 184 RPI had to beat us with an RPI of 145. :huh: Whoā€™s youā€™re bookie? I bet he loves you. :wink:

[QUOTE=ninerID;264528]
Can we please stop talking about winthrop? High Point has done nothing, including not beating winthrop since 2004, when winthrop was 14-16 and had an RPI of 210, to earn the respect of thinking that High Point has the same success as Winthrop. Winthrop has dominated that league, the best high point has ever done was 2nd and that was only one year.[/QUOTE]

That one year was LAST year, and theyā€™re picked to win the Big South THIS year.

[QUOTE=ninerID;264528]
Bottom line, in Halton Arena we should never lose to High Point. I mean maybe its one of those if we played 25 times HP wins 1 of those, and it just happens to be their lucky night. But I feel that it would show much bigger problems than just ā€œunluckā€.[/QUOTE]

Over the last 20 years that would be true. Weā€™re talking about Nov 9, this year. Any future or past matchups matter not. Whether you want to believe it or not, we have our work cut out for us.

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I think you got the wrong quote with this follow up, because this didn't make any sense with the quote you paired it with.
whoops, sorry.
But again, we SHOULD be in a better position to whip High Point, but we aren't. I'm arguing [I]what is[/I], not [I]what should be[/I] or [I]should have been[/I].
sad isn't it.
So we're resorting back to 1983 glory and saying that an 03-04 Houston team with an RPI of 187 had a better chance of beating a Pitt team with an RPI of 8 versus the chance that a High Point team of last year with a 184 RPI had to beat us with an RPI of 145. :huh: Who's you're bookie? I bet he loves you. :wink:

yeah its a stretch. They did beat #38 LSU that year. Again, 5 teams from the conference they were in were taken to be in what is in Pitts conference. They didnā€™t take 2 from CUSA, 1 from the acc, and 2 from the a10, all 5 from the CUSA.

That one year was LAST year, and they're picked to win the Big South THIS year.

Over the last 20 years that would be true. Weā€™re talking about Nov 9, this year. Any future or past matchups matter not. Whether you want to believe it or not, we have our work cut out for us


it earned them the #184 ranking (cue fireworks). They are picked to win the 29th best conference, in the NATION! (cue more fireworks). Who gives a crap. If you throw us in the big south, would we be picked to win it? NOW THAT IS SCARY!

I mean we talk about the recruiting drop from going from old cusa to a10, talk hypothetically about how much the socon would hurt recruiting, and then we worry about an instate big south team?

Hopefully we stomp them and then laugh the next day.

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:popcorn::drink:

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I think Wilderness will man up on New Mexico Reid or Montanna Moe or whatever the hell that jokers name is and show the punk who his daddy is. Niners win by 18.

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[QUOTE=Chisox17;264800]I think Wilderness will man up on New Mexico Reid or Montanna Moe or whatever the hell that jokers name is and show the punk who his daddy is. Niners win by 18.[/QUOTE]
I believe heā€™s the same joker who had 29 points and 16 rebounds in a game against Kentucky during his sophomore season.

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I believe he's the same joker who had 29 points and 16 rebounds in a game against Kentucky during his sophomore season.

Thatā€™s because Anjuan wasnā€™t guarding him. :shades:

:49ers:

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[QUOTE=Chisox17;264821]Thatā€™s because Anjuan wasnā€™t guarding him.[/QUOTE]
I hope youā€™re right. Otherwise, he may surpass his game of 32 points and 25 rebounds he had against VMI last season.

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I believe he's the same joker who had 29 points and 16 rebounds in a game against Kentucky during his sophomore season.

Not saying he isnā€™t any goodā€¦ but UK has hardly been THE UK of the past.

And it is all for not if they were blown out (donā€™t know if they were, just throwing it out there).

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[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;264853]Not saying he isnā€™t any goodā€¦ but UK has hardly been THE UK of the past.

And it is all for not if they were blown out (donā€™t know if they were, just throwing it out there).[/QUOTE]

Want some more, 26 pts and 8 rebounds against Chapel Hill last year, 19 and 5 against Maryland. Averaged 21 pts and 9.5 boards a game last year.

Scored 20 or more points in 16 games last year and had 5 games where he scored 30 or more. Big South Player of the Year.

As a sophomore had 12 games with 20 or more points and averaged 18.3 ppg and 9.1 rpg.

As a freshman reached double figures 5 times and tallied 2 double-doubles. Named to Big South All Freshman team.

Might be the best player we see in Halton this year (Stephen Curry could be argued here), but AZ Reid didnā€™t just do it last year. He has progressively been getting better year after year, so I wonder how heā€™ll do his senior season?

We have been known to give up career nights to guys, and if AZ has a career night, then you might as well just go ahead and mark down an L.

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Want some more, 26 pts and 8 rebounds against Chapel Hill last year, 19 and 5 against Maryland. Averaged 21 pts and 9.5 boards a game last year.

Scored 20 or more points in 16 games last year and had 5 games where he scored 30 or more. Big South Player of the Year.

As a sophomore had 12 games with 20 or more points and averaged 18.3 ppg and 9.1 rpg.

As a freshman reached double figures 5 times and tallied 2 double-doubles. Named to Big South All Freshman team.

Might be the best player we see in Halton this year (Stephen Curry could be argued here), but AZ Reid didnā€™t just do it last year. He has progressively been getting better year after year, so I wonder how heā€™ll do his senior season?

We have been known to give up career nights to guys, and if AZ has a career night, then you might as well just go ahead and mark down an L.

I didnā€™t need more did you read what I wroteā€¦

Not saying he isn't any good...

They lost that game to UNC-CH 94-69.

They lost to Maryland 81-63.

Like I said before, he may be good, but if youā€™re going to drop 30, you better win or come damn near close. Iā€™d rather score 5 pts and win then drop 40 and lose, especially by 20.

Iā€™m not saying heā€™s horrible. I agree he may be the best player weā€™ll see this year but donā€™t bring stats from a meaningless game that wasnā€™t a contest. If you think those fairies in blue were actually trying to guard him while they were winning by 25 then I want what youā€™re drinking. :drink:

Heā€™s also very foul prone. Fouled out of 5 contests (the first 3) and had 4 fouls in 7 others. Star players canā€™t continuously have those types of foul problems. Some will say he plays hard, I say he needs to focus better.

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Withers dropped 20+ rebounds and 20+ points. We werenā€™t good in 05-06. One player doesnā€™t make a team.

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[QUOTE=eason49;264870]Withers dropped 20+ rebounds and 20+ points. We werenā€™t good in 05-06. One player doesnā€™t make a team.[/QUOTE]

Yea, one team doesnā€™t make a player but it sure improves it by leaps and bounds. Look at what we did in 05-06 with Withers. Second in the conference and NIT birth. Virtually the same team with EJ back and look what we did last season.

Curtis made a huge difference his senior year. Could it have been a bigger impact? YES, but Curt still was grabbing boards and putting up points. He was right there for conference player of the year, and had Steve Smith not had a great season, he would have won it.

Anyone on here would have loved for the team to have finished 2nd in the conference last year.

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[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;264869]I didnā€™t need more did you read what I wroteā€¦

They lost that game to UNC-CH 94-69.

They lost to Maryland 81-63.

Like I said before, he may be good, but if youā€™re going to drop 30, you better win or come damn near close. Iā€™d rather score 5 pts and win then drop 40 and lose, especially by 20.

Iā€™m not saying heā€™s horrible. I agree he may be the best player weā€™ll see this year but donā€™t bring stats from a meaningless game that wasnā€™t a contest. If you think those fairies in blue were actually trying to guard him while they were winning by 25 then I want what youā€™re drinking. :drink:

Heā€™s also very foul prone. Fouled out of 5 contests (the first 3) and had 4 fouls in 7 others. Star players canā€™t continuously have those types of foul problems. Some will say he plays hard, I say he needs to focus better.[/QUOTE]

Okay, w/e, HP won every game but 4 that AZ scored 20pts or more in. You want a close game against a good team? 64-63 loss against Winthrop, AZ scored 24 pts and had 9 boards.

FOUL PRONE? Are you on crack? Any player that plays 30+ minutes and averages 2.8 fouls per game isnā€™t foul prone. Look at Withers when he was here, 3.1 fouls/game his junior and senior year.

Any player that rebounds at that high of a level and only commits 2.8 fouls/game isnā€™t foul prone.