I'm tired of this argument

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
1

This is sort of a football-hoops discussion, hence why its not in football forum. But this is a great link:
[URL]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebbe4b4a572c3e2/2007_basketball_attend.pdf?MOD=AJPERES[/URL]

it is the 2007 NCAA basketball attendance. We were #91 (not bad considering the stiffs we had) at 6026.

[B] Looking though at this list, I am tired of Charlotte sports radio and naysayers alway using this line[/B] [B]“the 49ers can’t even fill up Halton Arena, why would football work?”

[/B]I guess there are alot of D1 football programs that need to shut down- these average less than Charlotte/Halton in hoops:

ECU 4533
App 2530 (1AA football)
UAB 4752
Tulane 2004
Troy 2139
Toledo 5731
TCU 3732
USM 3481
Wyoming 6069 (ok better than us by 43)
Navy 1616
Ole Miss 5406
Miami Fla 3465!!!
Miami Oh 3250
Rutgers 5453
Marshall 3544
Oregon St 5165
La Tech 2288
Kent 3355
Air Force 5064

[B] oh… and a stat for you newbies to the program: in 1992 we averaged 7725! Good for 62nd in the NCAA[/B]
[URL]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebbe244a571ef37/1992_basketball_attend.pdf?MOD=AJPERES[/URL]

2

Good point Metro. My only concern with football is will fans still show up 3 to 4 years after the first season to see losing football? Will fans be patient?

Our basketball attendence has improved this season particuarly, but I still think we can do better then 91st.

3

Good find!

Also remember, the city and the school are growing. The school is expected to top 35k within 12 years, and Metro Charlotte is expected to top 4 million within the same time period.

I’m waiting on the day we begin discussing the Halton Arena expansion!

4

[QUOTE=switchfoot;297029] My only concern with football is will fans still show up 3 to 4 years after the first season to see losing football? Will fans be patient?

[/QUOTE]

Yes, but we’ll complain about it nonstop! :biggrin:

5
Wyoming 6069 (ok better than us by 43)

Their basketball arena holds 15,000 and attendance has decreased from 7,467 during their '04-05 season. C’mon coach! 500 season tickets don’t sell themselves.

You also have to consider that there is more competition for entertainment dollars in Laramie, WY.

6
Yes, but we'll complain about it nonstop! :biggrin:
complaining fans/customers are better than none
7

Aside from last year, we’ve consistently been in the top 75 in attendance for at least a decade. Back to when Halton opened. That’s better than the top 25% of all programs. (75/341 = 22%)

Nice illustration of the lack of correlation between hoops and football attendance. The honest answer is that it has much more to do with regional preferences. In the SE, football is king. However, against us is the competition with an NFL team.

If Jerry doesn’t start putting a winning product on the field, that’s gonna be a non-issue. You also can’t compare the price of an NFL gameday to a college one. A panthers game can set you back a disturbing amount of money.

And as a UT fan, let me emphasize that Pro and college football are completely different experiences, especially if you do the college part right. You have to nail the total gameday environment to have a successful program. Cater to the tailgating crowd, and put on one hell of a display - e.g. UT’s Pride of the Southland Marching Band stopping just outside of the stadium at the busiest intersection, with tens of thousands of fans crowded around them, and leading the entire throng on a raucous rendition of Rocky Top, just before they and everyone else piles into the stadium… butterflies. The Panthers wish they did something that cool.

When we do get football, we need to spend some serious time and money on the entire gameday experience. Find out what works at other schools and copy it.

8

[QUOTE=switchfoot;297029]Good point Metro. My only concern with football is will fans still show up 3 to 4 years after the first season to see losing football? Will fans be patient?

Our basketball attendence has improved this season particuarly, but I still think we can do better then 91st.[/QUOTE]

Why must it be losing? If we do the AA to A route there is no reason we cen’t do well. Costal Carolina went from starting a program to being ranked in the AA poll in year 2, they were in the playoffs by year 4, they are 38-17 since they started. It can be done.

9
And as a UT fan, let me emphasize that Pro and college football are completely different experiences, especially if you do the college part right. You have to nail the total gameday environment to have a successful program. Cater to the tailgating crowd, and put on one hell of a display - e.g. UT's Pride of the Southland Marching Band stopping just outside of the stadium at the busiest intersection, with tens of thousands of fans crowded around them, and leading the entire throng on a raucous rendition of Rocky Top, just before they and everyone else piles into the stadium... butterflies. The Panthers wish they did something that cool.

When we do get football, we need to spend some serious time and money on the entire gameday experience. Find out what works at other schools and copy it.

come on NA, I like hearing: welcome to the jungle, cat scratch fever, old time rock and roll, garth brooks, woot there it is, etc over and over like Ground Hog Day @ BofA Stadium.

10

Shouldn’t there be some sort of correlation between RPI, Students and Alumni size, and possibly arena size? Maybe perhaps the quality of opponents you bring in. Maybe some of you statistic buffs could give us an idea of how we perform against other schools in this regard. I just think that this statistic in general could be quite misleading because if you have a 20k seat arena then a few games could certainly skew things. Perhaps they should have included the standard deviation when ranking schools. I would say we are more consistent then a lot of other schools…

11

I don’t know if this is where you got your info metro, but it shows past years.
[URL]http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/[/URL]
So far this year we’re 91st.

12
I don't know if this is where you got your info metro, but it shows past years. [URL]http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/[/URL] So far this year we're 91st.
that is the same info and link I posted in post #1....its from last year not this year I suspect we are better this year- 2008
13

[QUOTE=s9er;297041]Why must it be losing? If we do the AA to A route there is no reason we cen’t do well. Costal Carolina went from starting a program to being ranked in the AA poll in year 2, they were in the playoffs by year 4, they are 38-17 since they started. It can be done.[/QUOTE]

I hope you’re right. Historically football isn’t a money maker at most schools and it takes years to build a strong program. I guess I don’t wear green colored glasses enough on here. :slight_smile:

14
that is the same info and link I posted in post #1....its from last year not this year I suspect we are better this year- 2008

:doh: So I guess next time I’ll read the entire post. It might be better to look at the numbers by percentage filled type formula, even if we sell out every game we still wouldn’t be able to be in the top 40.

15

Good post Metro. I have always thought that this was weak argument and it’s good to see the stats to prove it.

Now, let me play devil’s advocate for a moment…what is the capacity % at these schools? We can seat 9,105 so if we average 6,026 per game, that is approx 66% capacity. If a school is averaging 2,000 fans but can only seat 2,500, then that is 80% capacity. I think the percentage as well as the number of cheeks in the seat are both important measures.

I do think that a college team in Charlotte will draw people that are just football fans and want something to do on Saturday’s. Hopefully they will buy tickets and merchandise and maybe even come out to basketball if they have fun.

16

[QUOTE=switchfoot;297070]I hope you’re right. Historically football isn’t a money maker at most schools and it takes years to build a strong program. I guess I don’t wear green colored glasses enough on here. :)[/QUOTE]

My green tinted glasses = a 10-40 start.

17

[QUOTE=metro;297025]This is sort of a football-hoops discussion, hence why its not in football forum. But this is a great link:
[URL]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebbe4b4a572c3e2/2007_basketball_attend.pdf?MOD=AJPERES[/URL]

it is the 2007 NCAA basketball attendance. We were #91 (not bad considering the stiffs we had) at 6026.

[B] Looking though at this list, I am tired of Charlotte sports radio and naysayers alway using this line[/B] [B]“the 49ers can’t even fill up Halton Arena, why would football work?”

[/B]I guess there are alot of D1 football programs that need to shut down- these average less than Charlotte/Halton in hoops:

ECU 4533
App 2530 (1AA football)
UAB 4752
Tulane 2004
Troy 2139
Toledo 5731
TCU 3732
USM 3481
Wyoming 6069 (ok better than us by 43)
Navy 1616
Ole Miss 5406
Miami Fla 3465!!!
Miami Oh 3250
Rutgers 5453
Marshall 3544
Oregon St 5165
La Tech 2288
Kent 3355
Air Force 5064

[B] oh… and a stat for you newbies to the program: in 1992 we averaged 7725! Good for 62nd in the NCAA[/B]
[URL]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebbe244a571ef37/1992_basketball_attend.pdf?MOD=AJPERES[/URL][/QUOTE]

I tried to do this last year, comparing the basketball attendance to the football attendance at App, ECU, and Clemson, but I can’t find my numbers. I also included the capacity of the stadium/arena.

Here are some of the teams you listed as far as football numbers.

Basketball---- Football

ECU 4533 63. East Caro. 37,168

App 2530 3. Appalachian St. 20,546

UAB 4752 83. UAB 23,139

Miami Fla 3465 51. Miami (Fla.) 41,908

Marshall 3544 81. Marshall 26,031

USM 3481 78. Southern Miss. 28,994

And a few others with the average #'s:

NCAA DIVISION I FBS TOTALS Average 46,249

  1. Clemson 82,992

  2. South Carolina 75,630

  3. North Carolina St. 56,540

  4. North Carolina 48,857

  5. Miami (Fla.) 41,908

  6. East Caro. 37,168

  7. UCF 31,569

  8. South Fla. 30,222

  9. Southern Miss. 28,994

  10. Marshall 26,031

  11. UAB 23,139

  12. Duke 19,580

  13. Temple 15,810

NCAA DIVISION I FCS TOTALS Average 8,916

  1. Appalachian St. 20,546

  2. Furman 12,442

  3. Massachusetts 11,663

  4. N.C. A&T 11,596

  5. Wofford 8,334

  6. Coastal Caro. 8,134

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/ebbd7c4a53b621f/2006_football_attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Good find metro!! I 'll have to bookmark this and make a spreadsheet some day comparing the 2 sports.

18
I do think that a college team in Charlotte will draw people that are just football fans and want something to do on Saturday's. Hopefully they will buy tickets and merchandise and maybe even come out to basketball if they have fun.

Exactly. I dont think panthers games will have much of an impact on our football attendance because they are completly different in all aspects, the most important being on different days.

We can certainly do a little strategic planning to have home games when panthers are away most of the time anyway.

19

[QUOTE=uncommon-niner;297146]Exactly. I dont think panthers games will have much of an impact on our football attendance because they are completly different in all aspects, the most important being on different days.

We can certainly do a little strategic planning to have home games when panthers are away most of the time anyway.[/QUOTE]

Cost and ticket availability will also be a plus. I’m assuming our single game and season tickets will be much less expensive than Panthers tickets and mostly easier to get (although Panthers tickets last season were very easy to find considering how bad they were!).

20

[QUOTE=uncommon-niner;297146]We can certainly do a little strategic planning to have home games when panthers are away most of the time anyway.[/QUOTE]
And how do you do that? Most college schedules are signed at least three seasons out. The complete ACC football schedule for next season is set and announced. The NFL schedules are made by the NFL office in the spring, and they certainly don’t care when any college plays.