[QUOTE=jcl49er;376134]Teams can win Super Bowls with “average” QB’s. Ask Baltimore. We came close to being able to ask Carolina if not for some special teams miscues a few years back. I think that if you have a sound running game and stellar defense, you can go all the way if you are average at QB. Unfortunately, in the playoffs, you cannot have one of your worst games ever or it’s see ya next year.[/QUOTE]
Nice example, you quote a team that had an average QB but one of the best defenses in recent history. It would be different if the Panthers had that type of D. You could literally limit Jake’s passing #'s to single digits.
The Panthers are built to run the ball and play good defense. Period. If they do that, they win. We didn’t do that in the playoff game, so we lost. Jake is our QB to manage the offense. He didn’t do that well in the game but he was also put in a position to do pretty poorly because of play calling and game situations.
I’m so tired of people instantly blaming Jake for everything. It would make sense, maybe, if he was given credit for, well, I dont know, the fact that they went 12-4 and put themselves in position to have an easier road to the Super Bowl. They worked hard the entire season to put themselves in that position and they didn’t capitalize. It was a terrible way to end a great season, but it was still a great season.
A guy asked me today if I wanted to trade my Panthers jacket for an Eagles one, and I told him that the Panthers still had more wins than the Eagles and if you only wear your team’s gear after they win or when they’re having success, you’re not a fan. Hence why Chapel Hill gear is nowhere to be seen lately on campus…
bottom line: jake is a pretty good journeyman starter. and a very good leader. i think he was good for a relatively young team this past year. going forward? i’m not sure we need his leadership quite as much. i hope the competition for qb is wide open in s’burg, and i’m sure it will be.
The Panthers are built to run the ball and play good defense. Period. If they do that, they win. We didn't do that in the playoff game, so we lost. Jake is our QB to manage the offense. He didn't do that well in the game but he was also put in a position to do pretty poorly because of play calling and game situations.
I’m so tired of people instantly blaming Jake for everything. It would make sense, maybe, if he was given credit for, well, I dont know, the fact that they went 12-4 and put themselves in position to have an easier road to the Super Bowl. They worked hard the entire season to put themselves in that position and they didn’t capitalize. It was a terrible way to end a great season, but it was still a great season.
A guy asked me today if I wanted to trade my Panthers jacket for an Eagles one, and I told him that the Panthers still had more wins than the Eagles and if you only wear your team’s gear after they win or when they’re having success, you’re not a fan. Hence why Chapel Hill gear is nowhere to be seen lately on campus…
Well, I’m certainly not a Jake hater, but that loss was on him and he’ll even tell you that himself.
Not saying we need to get rid of him, because I think he tends be one of the most clutch QBs when we need a scoring drive in the two minute offense and I love that about him.
But he is getting up there in age for the NFL and we need to start thinking of a long-term replacement.
Nice example, you quote a team that had an average QB but [B]one of the best defenses in recent history[/B]. It would be different if the Panthers had that type of D. You could literally limit Jake's passing #'s to single digits.
Our defense was terrible at times in the 2nd half of the season. Especially before half-time this past Saturday night.
Jake then throws a beautiful strike to the Az linebacker. These plays are bam-bam-bam in sequence and demoralize the Panthers. At this point Arizona is just daring Jake to beat them - which he cannot do. [B]He was throwing into double coverage all night because Davidson had abandoned the run. Why do you abandon the run the second freakin quarter?[/B]
Jake is taking the heat today and rightfully so but there is plenty of blame to go around on this one. The defense and it’s gameplan was terrible in the first half. We abandon our bread and butter and their D is able to run wind sprints in the second half. Tell me Az is only gonna score 6 in the second half and I tell you Carolina wins that game every time. This one was a real head scratcher on many levels.
I cannot help to think of John Fox’s self proclaimed mantra - “Be the same guy”. Well he sure as ****e didn’t tell his O & D Coordinators to do that cause that was one hell of a Jeckyl & Hyde coaching job we witnessed.
DOBA Take the ball out of Jakes hands, run a reverse to Smith to get him in the game, run a screen to D Will, do something other than, up the gut, up the gut, bomb to smith, punt!! What pisses me off the most is our play calling this year was actually good, for some reason Davidson had his head up his ass Sat night.
A game never falls on one players shoulders. He shouldered the blame because he’s a good teammate and leader. He had a terrible game, that’s not in question. To say it’s entirely on him is just an empty comment and I’m tired of hearing it from Panther fans. Understand the team concept of it, or just go root for the Cowboys.
[QUOTE=ninerball49;376398]The Panthers are built to run the ball and play good defense. Period. If they do that, they win. We didn’t do that in the playoff game, so we lost. Jake is our QB to manage the offense. He didn’t do that well in the game but he was also put in a position to do pretty poorly because of play calling and game situations.
I’m so tired of people instantly blaming Jake for everything. It would make sense, maybe, if he was given credit for, well, I dont know, the fact that they went 12-4 and put themselves in position to have an easier road to the Super Bowl. They worked hard the entire season to put themselves in that position and they didn’t capitalize. It was a terrible way to end a great season, but it was still a great season.
A guy asked me today if I wanted to trade my Panthers jacket for an Eagles one, and I told him that the Panthers still had more wins than the Eagles and if you only wear your team’s gear after they win or when they’re having success, you’re not a fan. Hence why Chapel Hill gear is nowhere to be seen lately on campus…[/QUOTE]
Jake is a guy who can get it done, he’s shown it before in the playoffs, but the reality is that he’s in his mid 30’s now or the Panthers will be the Minnesota Vikings 2.0 when Jake retires/gets hurt.
[QUOTE=49timesthelovin;376406]Our defense was terrible at times in the 2nd half of the season. Especially before half-time this past Saturday night.[/QUOTE]
Yea, my point, I was referring to the 2000-01 Super Bowl Champion Ravens. Tragovac sucks, if this was a Del Rio defense they would be a top 5 D year in and year out.
[QUOTE=ninerball49;376420]A game never falls on one players shoulders. He shouldered the blame because he’s a good teammate and leader. He had a terrible game, that’s not in question. To say it’s entirely on him is just an empty comment and I’m tired of hearing it from Panther fans. Understand the team concept of it, or just go root for the Cowboys.[/QUOTE]
Except for the one tipped interception, the other 4 were Delhomme’s fault. I don’t care how bad the play calling is, he can’t throw those balls where he was trying to throw them. Few QB’s can, and most are smart enough not to try. Every time the Panthers got a twinge of momentum, Jake Mistake struck again. I think he’s the only QB in the league that is less mobile than the Mannings, and that does not help his cause either. When everybody is covered you can a) throw the ball away, b ) take off using those two things below your waist, or c) throw the ball into coverage and likely to the other team. Delhomme chose “c” most of the game. He’s done it a lot this season, but Steve Smith saved him several times from an interception this season by making an unbelievable catch. Until Delhomme is at least able to recognize when to get out of the pocket and not throw an interception or give up a fumble because he waited too long, he will continue to have games like that against good defensive teams.
[B]A game never falls on one players shoulders.[/B] He shouldered the blame because he's a good teammate and leader. He had a terrible game, that's not in question. To say it's entirely on him is just an empty comment and I'm tired of hearing it from Panther fans. Understand the team concept of it, or just go root for the Cowboys.
[QUOTE=earlyniner;376402]bottom line: jake is a pretty good journeyman starter. and a very good leader. i think he was good for a relatively young team this past year. going forward? i’m not sure we need his leadership quite as much. i hope the competition for qb is wide open in s’burg, and i’m sure it will be.[/QUOTE]
I agree and believe that the transition to a new quarterback needs to begin. Jake may be the starter in the near future but a suitable replacement needs to be in place who is able to beat out Jake and not just be a career backup. If Moore has this ability then he needs to begin forcing his way into the lineup. He hasn’t done this yet but that could be on Fox and if this is the case it opens up the problem of Fox resisting transition and change. The game moves very fast for new quarterbacks but for the elite qbs the game slows down as they gain experience. I don’t think the game ever slowed down for Jake. Every pass he throws seems to be a desperation pass.
Jake is never as bad as his worst games and never as good as his best games.
We will never have a serious AllPro QB as long as Fox and Hurney are in control It is just not their philosophy. They have tried drafting young QBs, they just have not found anything that great. Did Jake make awful throws? Yes absolutely. Everyone has to understand though the type of QB he is. If you put the ball in his hands and ask him to win the game for you this is what you get. Half the time he will have a great game, over 300 yards and we win or he throws multiple picks and we get the crap beat out of us. He is just not good enough to consistently win a game on his own. He is not an elite QB in the league. He is just a run of the mill QB with the courage or lack of judgement to make throws. Half the QBs would not attempt the balls he throws to Steve - but Jake knows his WR. That same courage though comes back to bite him and he can look really really bad.
I really fault the offensive play calling and the defense for putting us in a position where Jake could not succeed. It will be interesting to see how things shakedown. Remember they brought Carr in to compete with Jake and he failed, so they are not adverse to bringing in competition.
[B]THIS IS NOT A SHOT AT JAKE[/B] Nor is it part of the conversation, but anyway.
The Panthers have clearly never valued [B]developing[/B] the QB position if you consider their drafting history.
1995: Kerry Collins, Rd 1 #5 overall… Jerry Colquitt (6th Rd, never played)
That is the one and only day 1 pick the Panthers have EVER used on a QB.
Collins left in 1998
The only other QB’s drafted are
Chris Weinke 4th Rd, 2001 :weep:
Randy Fasani 5th Rd 2002 :scared:
Stefan Lefors 4th Rd 2004 :drool:
At some point they need to pick a QB on Day 1 and groom him. Tom Brady or Kurt Warner doesn’t happen very often… Of the 4 teams left, 3 start 1st rd pick QB’s and the other starts Warner (they have a #1 waiting for him to hang em up)… Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, 9 started 1st round draft picks at QB.
Jake is very similar to Favre in their styles. Jake’s strongest assets are his leadership skills and not being scared to try to make the tough (impossible) pass. There’s a great possibility that we try to get a new QB that won’t have Jake’s leadership skills. It’s a tough call to make. But I think they do need to try to find somebody to groom. Or else we’ll have a QB like Favre and have to live with all of the ups and downs.
Jake is very similar to Favre in their styles. Jake's strongest assets are his leadership skills and not being scared to try to make the tough (impossible) pass. There's a great possibility that we try to get a new QB that won't have Jake's leadership skills. It's a tough call to make. But I think they do need to try to find somebody to groom. Or else we'll have a QB like Favre and have to live with all of the ups and downs.
I understand your comparison, but Jake is no Favre, unless you mean the old man who wore that name on his jersey the last 3 years.
I have always been a Jake guy and Saturday night was terrible to watch. I did watch his press conference and was glad to hear Jake take it and admit it was his fault. He had his worst game of the year in the biggest game of the year. He came back from a tough injury and was pretty good for the majority of the year. I don’t think he’s going anywhere next year. However, if he struggles at the start next year, the pressure will heat up on Fox to make a change. I am not ready to throw him under the bus because of one bad game after a 12-4 season. Not yet.
Keep in mind as NinerWupAss pointed out. Panthers aren’t the type, with Fox and Hurney to go after a big All-Pro QB. They run an offense where you run the ball and set up the play action to Steve Smith. Saturday night the problem was, we didn’t run the ball consistantly well and when Jake did make throws he was terrible.
I have always been a Jake guy and Saturday night was terrible to watch. I did watch his press conference and was glad to hear Jake take it and admit it was his fault. He had his worst game of the year in the biggest game of the year. He came back from a tough injury and was pretty good for the majority of the year. I don't think he's going anywhere next year. However, if he struggles at the start next year, the pressure will heat up on Fox to make a change. [B]I am not ready to throw him under the bus because of one bad game after a 12-4 season. Not yet. [/B]
Keep in mind as NinerWupAss pointed out. Panthers aren’t the type, with Fox and Hurney to go after a big All-Pro QB. They run an offense where you run the ball and set up the play action to Steve Smith. Saturday night the problem was, we didn’t run the ball consistantly well and when Jake did make throws he was terrible.
We weren’t ready to throw Lutz under the bus after a 20 win season, even though we knew he wasn’t going to get it done year in and year out. We were blinded by a lucky season. Now we’re stuck with Lutz.
I’d prefer if the panthers didn’t take that same approach.