This has to be one of the most ridiculous forums ever! Anyone that has followed Judyâs career at Charlotte; hires, facilities built & upgraded, money raised would rank her as one of the top Athletic Directors. She has had hires in many sports that have taken various programs to a national level & competed for National Champioships. Her succes at hiring womenâs baskeball coaches, now head coaches at Miami, Florida, Texas & the present oneâs team with votes in the top 25 in the nation is beyond compare. Her hires for soccer, golf, baseball coaches have also all been extemely sucessful on a national level. Facilities for basketball (Halton), baseball (Hayes), football (McColl, Richardson), soccer, softball have all been built under her guidance. There is not enough space here to name her accomplishments & no one is perfect but in my opinion she has been & is one of the best A. D.s around & we are exteremely fortunate to have her as our A. D. at Charlotte.
Eh, one of the best around? I donât hate the woman, but that is pushing it.
Eh, one of the best around? I donât hate the woman, but that is pushing it.[/quote]
Iâll admit Judy has done a good job with some hires. Especially with the coaches for the womens teams. She seems to do well in those sports she is the most interested.
Nothing against the women. Its football and menâs basketball that count. Suck at basketball and no one could care less about how many all time great womens ping pong coaches you hired.
Eh, one of the best around? I donât hate the woman, but that is pushing it.[/quote]
Iâll admit Judy has done a good job with some hires. Especially with the coaches for the womens teams. She seems to do well in those sports she is the most interested.[/quote]Biggest gripe of recent history has to be Menâs Basketballâs lack of success. Everything else has been handled pretty damn well.
Judy has been good and bad⌠Basketball has been her big fail in my opinionâŚ
On the Menâs side she botched the Watkins hire from the get go, which made the A&M move almost inevitable. Lutz wasnât handled properly on a couple of occasions⌠After the interviews and then the extension. Major- the jury is still out, but in almost 3 years I have no clue if the guy can coach a lick⌠She may be doing great in the Olympic sports, but menâs hoops, our flagship sport, has been her least successful program. On the Womenâs side the fact that we canât keep a coach more than about 45 minutes is a problem.
Iâm really curious how this one plays out, she canât afford another mistake.
I think your view of Judy really is dependent on where you think we SHOULD be.
You like Judy if:
[ul][li]You are happy that Olympic sports are performing great[/li]
[li]View the relative success of womens and mens basketball over the past 15 years as a reflection of her leadership[/li]
[li]While few, her big donors come through regularly[/li]
[li]You think our current market penetration is good enough[/li]
[li]You are pleased with how she has supported football[/li]
[li]You are pleased with how she navigated conference changes[/li]
[li]The improvement in facilities has been solid[/li]
[li]You became buddies with her/them(AD)[/li][/ul]
You donât like Judy if:
[ul][li]Olympic sports succeeding is great - but doesnât really mean squat to most fans[/li]
[li]Basketball on the mens side has collapsed under her leadership and womens cant keep a coach[/li]
[li]Big donors are great, but we arenât building a solid donor base and contributions are half of what they were 5-6 years ago[/li]
[li]Our market penetration isnât near what it could/should be[/li]
[li]She was not a visionary for football and simply jumped on the bandwagon - she didnt lead, just followed[/li]
[li]Her lack of vision and ability to convince admins has impacted the conference realignments[/li]
[li]Facilities are nice, but why could we build track, baseball, tennis facilities so easily - but a football stadium was so so so hard? (near impossible if you recall the reason$ why we didnât have football)[/li][/ul]
As far as I am concerned Judy is a run of the mill AD. She has done great at some things and awful at others. I think a better AD could have sold Woodward on football and would have us in a bigger better league right now. However a worse AD could have really messed up football and our facilities would be bad. Some people think we could be far more than what we are today with different leadership and it is hard to argue against that. Others think that she has done as well as can be expected considering resources and support, which can also be considered true.
Fact is she was a womenâs coach that got thrown the job only because Coach Mullins wanted to stay mens coach. If she was really THAT great she would have been hired away. If she had been THAT bad she would have been fired. She is the definition of mediocre. For every positive that can be listed a negative can be as well. The real question is in your eyes - is that good enough or the best we can hope for?
Again for reference:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
Eh, one of the best around? I donât hate the woman, but that is pushing it.[/quote]
Iâll admit Judy has done a good job with some hires. Especially with the coaches for the womens teams. She seems to do well in those sports she is the most interested.[/quote]Biggest gripe of recent history has to be Menâs Basketballâs lack of success. Everything else has been handled pretty damn well.[/quote]
No complaints about menâs soccer and golf, but I donât think she is very fond of our baseball program and there is no need to mention basketball. Football is still to be determined but we were VERY LATE getting into the game. Where we eventually wind up in the conference reallignments will be important and another maneuver could be one of her last acts as AD, simply because she will eventually retire.
I guess I am pro Judy, and maybe I look at things differentlyâI think maybe a little more realistically. We keep losing Womenâs Basketball coaches because they have serious success and get better offers. Amanda Butler is coaching at her alma mater and Karen Aston is back home in Texas. Both make more than $1 million/year. How did you want Judy to keep them? I do not think she gets enough credit for reloading on that program.
We have to do more with less because those are the resources that we have. Any idiot can hire the UNC-CH soccer coach to come in and bring you success (Creighton) if they have the checkbook. We donât, so we have to try and find coaches that will become a top coach. In our olympic sports we have had pretty good luck with that, but the nature of the beast is that we are going to lose them once everyone else figures it out and then we have to start all over. This is where Judyâs tenure and connections really help us. Not every hire can be a guaranteed winner, but as long as good young coaches see Charlotte as a good place to work and springboard to bigger jobs we will have a shot at them.
I promise you Judy could have gone to a bigger, better program many times. Sort of like Coach Hibbs (baseball), this is her school. She is a lifer. You need to hope that she does not leave too soon because it will take more than twice what we pay her to get an AD with successful FBS experience. What we can afford is to promote from within, or an up-and-coming FCS AD, or an FBS Associate AD. We are not going to get a BCS-type leader. Judy does what she does because she is a Niner and loves this school. Anyone that doubts that doesnât know her.
I get a little wound up when posters talk about firing people left and right, and we will just replace them with the right Coach/AD to take us to the tournament, get us to the conference, etc. I have to remember that maybe the fan is young and does not have a lot of life or business experience so their enthusiasm is pure fandom, and that is not really a bad thing. The reality is we have to balance a lot of things. Our funds are not unlimited, we cannot get the reputation for hiring and firing coaches that do not succeed nationally and hope to keep getting good candidates, and most teams do not have the level of success that we expect.
I think our menâs basketball program is like the old project management sawâyou can have it quick, cheap, or goodâpick two. We are stuck with cheap at this time, so pick one. Some fans would choose quick, but that usually means JUCOs and transfers. We have been there, and for a while they were the good olâ days. This time it looks like we have picked good, so be prepared for it to take a little longer.
Still, I want to win the next two, and I hope our team feels strongly the same.
Both make 1 mill???
Aston left here for North Texas⌠She isnât making a mill at Texas either, 600K⌠Butler was making 250K plus before an extensionâŚ
I understand all of what you said. This is the only thing I want to point out though. If we have limited resources, who does that fall on? I agree she has done well with what she has and agree with much of what you said.
Without knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes (which is whatâs needed to really understand performance, but what else is there to go on?), I think you could argue that Rose is a good, maybe great, but not spectacular AD.
NWAâs list above is pretty comprehensive. I would shade a few of the points one way or another, but several I agree with.
I think Rose should get some credit for menâs basketballâs success pre-A10, but that was really the program that Mullins built. That becomes less of a positive, but at least she didnât undermine it. And the Watkins and Lutz hires were initially good, even if they were obvious and Lutz eventually did poorly. A different AD might have gone in a very different direction. But a different AD mightâve addressed the Lutz situation better, particularly the contract extension followed by firing. That was definitely a huge mistake.
She gets more credit for the womenâs program doing better, but I think itâs pretty clear that isnât the money maker.
Agree that the local exposure is a problem. Certainly some of that is overshadowing from the ACC and their graduates in the local press, but there have been a number of missteps in selling the program to the city and region. A more dynamic/savvy AD mightâve been able to do a better job at that.
I think the criticism about football is unfair, unless you qualify it with the fact that the chancellor was very much against adding football. Maybe you could argue that Rose shouldâve convinced him otherwise, privately, but she canât come out against him publicly, and I know plenty of academics that would never be convinced that adding football is a good idea. For some of these folks, thatâs like trying to use a conversation to convince a diehard atheist that God exists. Everything I hear about Woodward suggests he was a true non-believer of football (but maybe those reports are wrong?).
The donor base is a typical issue of schools that are very young, start out with lower rated programs, and start out as commuter schools. UNCC has come a long way from that now, but the alumni base is still mostly(?) a product of a very different school atmosphere. I think that will change going forward if Charlotte athletics can pick up again.
I donât think the question is whether we can hope for better, because we could obviously hope for someone perfect, even at the salary weâre willing to pay. But the question is are we likely to get someone better given how you feel about Roseâs chances for success going forward and given the athletic programsâ current status. I think thatâs what NWA meant anyway, but phrasing it as the best we can hope for makes me think âof course not, we could always âhopeâ for betterâ. Iâd say itâs better for Rose to stay than to take our chances with someone new, if she continues doing about as well as she has so far.
Both make 1 mill? ??? ???
Aston left here for North Texas⌠She isnât making a mill at Texas either, 600K⌠Butler was making 250K plus before an extensionâŚ[/quote]I think good olâ Roy also makes about $250,000 if you look at his base salary because like these ladies they are all state employees.
Aston can make $875,000 if she hits her bonus marks, and the coach she replaced made $1.25 million, so it probably isnât a stretch to call that a million dollar job. http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7779803/texas-pay-new-coach-aston-600000-per-year
I thought I had seen an article putting Butler in that bracket too, but I canât find anything now.
Either way, it is safe to say that Butler doubled her salary and Aston did one year at North Texas to be closer to her parents (yeah, right), and then went to Austin for huge money. We cannot match these checks.
I understand all of what you said. This is the only thing I want to point out though. If we have limited resources, who does that fall on? I agree she has done well with what she has and agree with much of what you said.[/quote]This is one of my biggest frustrations too. It is a real chicken or the egg situation and we do not seem to make any progress on it. If we win more, we should get more donations, but to win more we need more money to hire better coaches. I know the 49er Club is responsible for developing membership and they report up to Judy, so it is ultimately her job, but I think they do about as well as the alumni association (which isnât all that great), so is it their efforts or do our alumns/fans just not pony up the bucks? I donât know. I hope football really helps.
I understand all of what you said. This is the only thing I want to point out though. If we have limited resources, who does that fall on? I agree she has done well with what she has and agree with much of what you said.[/quote]This is one of my biggest frustrations too. It is a real chicken or the egg situation and we do not seem to make any progress on it. If we win more, we should get more donations, but to win more we need more money to hire better coaches. I know the 49er Club is responsible for developing membership and they report up to Judy, so it is ultimately her job, but I think they do about as well as the alumni association (which isnât all that great), so is it their efforts or do our alumns/fans just not pony up the bucks? I donât know. I hope football really helps.[/quote]
Me too. Looking at the giving is really the part that gives me the most concern about her leadership. It is hard to figure. IMO she focuses too much on being buddies and getting the big donors and we ignore the smaller donors. If you become buddies or friends with them they take care of you which is nice, but not one single time did someone talk to me about increasing my giving or anything like that. In all honesty it is amazing we have been able to launch football with contributions half of what they were 5-6 years ago. We just have not cultivated a donor base and we rely on her big donors.
How has our giving dropped in comparison to other peer institutions during the economic downturn?
[quote=âThe White Samurai, post:56, topic:27571â]How has our giving dropped in comparison to other peer institutions during the economic downturn?[/quote]Hold on, Iâm looking at tOSU and Kentucky right now.
Both make 1 mill? ??? ???
Aston left here for North Texas⌠She isnât making a mill at Texas either, 600K⌠Butler was making 250K plus before an extensionâŚ[/quote]I think good olâ Roy also makes about $250,000 if you look at his base salary because like these ladies they are all state employees.
Aston can make $875,000 if she hits her bonus marks, and the coach she replaced made $1.25 million, so it probably isnât a stretch to call that a million dollar job. http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7779803/texas-pay-new-coach-aston-600000-per-year
I thought I had seen an article putting Butler in that bracket too, but I canât find anything now.
Either way, it is safe to say that Butler doubled her salary and Aston did one year at North Texas to be closer to her parents (yeah, right), and then went to Austin for huge money. We cannot match these checks.[/quote]
Thats all well and good, but donât make shit up to prove a point. Ashton has a 600k per year job and Butler 500⌠together they are a millionâŚ
I understand all of what you said. This is the only thing I want to point out though. If we have limited resources, who does that fall on? I agree she has done well with what she has and agree with much of what you said.[/quote]This is one of my biggest frustrations too. It is a real chicken or the egg situation and we do not seem to make any progress on it. If we win more, we should get more donations, but to win more we need more money to hire better coaches. I know the 49er Club is responsible for developing membership and they report up to Judy, so it is ultimately her job, but I think they do about as well as the alumni association (which isnât all that great), so is it their efforts or do our alumns/fans just not pony up the bucks? I donât know. I hope football really helps.[/quote]
Me too. Looking at the giving is really the part that gives me the most concern about her leadership. It is hard to figure. IMO she focuses too much on being buddies and getting the big donors and we ignore the smaller donors. If you become buddies or friends with them they take care of you which is nice, but not one single time did someone talk to me about increasing my giving or anything like that. In all honesty it is amazing we have been able to launch football with contributions half of what they were 5-6 years ago. We just have not cultivated a donor base and we rely on her big donors.[/quote]I think Judy should set strategy and focus on the big donors. Hummer, Devos, Weatherman, and Garrett should be working with us regular folks with DeVos taking the lead as the Director of Annual Giving. Like you mentioned, it is a shame that they do not âre-recruitâ existing donors because I am sure they could up many of the contributions. Where I really wonder what they are doing is with new members of the 49er Club. Maybe it is because I am already here and they can count on my check that I do not hear about these efforts, but just waiting for recent alums to send in a check is not a program. We should just be copying what other schools are doing successfully. Our Gold Rush Auction is an example of where we are a leader in fundraising, but there is so much room to improve the basics that reinventing the wheel isnât worth the effort. Just do the basics very well.
In short - YES and ours hasnât return, while others have.
In Millions
Charlotte
06 5.7
07 5.2
08 4.1
09 2.8
10 3.2
11 3.1
App
1
969k
1.1
757k
1.6
2.8
ECU
4.1
4.1
4.3
4.7
4.4
4.9
ODU
1.1
1.3
1.2
1.6
4.4
3.5
UAB
3.6
3.2
3.4
2.9
3.0
2.6
Marshall
3.7
3.6
3.4
2.7
3.5
3.8
So in 2006 our giving was almost 6 times of what Appâs was. In 2011 we were only 300k apart. Think about that.