Judy Rose was right

X-49er · May 22, 2009, 3:56am

[QUOTE=Over40NINER;409614]I won’t argue with that, but the point I wanted to make is this;

I think FSLs would be gobbled up and paid off if it were announced the Big East wanted us in their league.[/QUOTE]

There would be 1000 phone calls tomorrow to the Athletic Department if that appeared in the Observer tomorrow.

[QUOTE=49RFootballNow;409609]X, I would not have paid $2000 on the premise of NO FBS. My $2000 FSL purchase is conditional on us having a dedication to playing at the top possible level.

I would buy season tickets to FCS football but NOT, NOT a seat license. There is no justification to expect upfront money from your fans for FCS level football.

No one expects us to be Florida in ten years but I sure as hell expect us to be at the same level as ECU in 15 years and will except nothing less and you or any other fan shouldn’t either.

If you think anyone besides you, me and Over are going to sit through 30 years of FCS in the city of Charlotte then you need to put the bong down friend. We’ll still be # 6 at best in this city as FBS. At FCS we will be nothing, ever.[/QUOTE]

You can’t make the jump to FBS with little support. Dubois has already stated that we will go when the support is there. I don’t think that he said that just to say it. We have to be financially viable to move up. We will at some point, but saying “we’re going FBS in X year” isn’t going to make people call in tomorrow and give $1000. They know we would currently be looking at Sun Belt or worse in FBS. FBS football programs lose money, the bad ones especially. Sure they generate money to the school in other indirect ways, but the income-expenses for most FBS programs is in the red and there are many good programs on that list. Starting out, I would rather have a solid FCS program looking to move up than a sucky FBS program. Everyone thinks we’re going to be the next South Florida, but the chances are as good or greater that we will be UAB, Florida International, North Texas, or San Jose State. I prefer not to be a sucky FBS football team in a sucky basketball conference.

[QUOTE=49RFootballNow;409615]FSL’s were a mistake at this point anyway.
[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with you there. I would have preferred pledges for season tickets, as many as you wanted so long as you paid, and a donation to the 49er Club now that matched that amount. I think we could have raised more money that way and got a truer gauge of our supporters.

Over40NINER · May 22, 2009, 4:02am

n/m… I forgot that Mary is gone.

X-49er · May 22, 2009, 4:06am

[QUOTE=Over40NINER;409617]Along with 4 or 5 articles about why it should not happen.[/QUOTE]

I thought Mary got canned? No?

Over40NINER · May 22, 2009, 4:06am

I think FSLs would be gobbled up and paid off if it were announced the Big East wanted us in their league. The actual hype is much less when no one knows exactly which direction we'll be headed.

There would be 1000 phone calls tomorrow to the Athletic Department if that appeared in the Observer tomorrow.

I agree, and that's my point. Lots of people will buy FSLs if they know we'll be a major player, but not when no one knows where we're going.

49RFootballNow · May 22, 2009, 4:08am

[QUOTE=X-49er;409616]There would be 1000 phone calls tomorrow to the Athletic Department if that appeared in the Observer tomorrow.

You can’t make the jump to FBS with little support. Dubois has already stated that we will go when the support is there. I don’t think that he said that just to say it. We have to be financially viable to move up. We will at some point, but saying “we’re going FBS in X year” isn’t going to make people call in tomorrow and give $1000. They know we would currently be looking at Sun Belt or worse in FBS. FBS football programs lose money, the bad ones especially. Sure they generate money to the school in other indirect ways, but the income-expenses for most FBS programs is in the red and there are many good programs on that list. Starting out, I would rather have a solid FCS program looking to move up than a sucky FBS program. Everyone thinks we’re going to be the next South Florida, but the chances are as good or greater that we will be UAB, Florida International, North Texas, or San Jose State. I prefer not to be a sucky FBS football team in a sucky basketball conference.[/QUOTE]

I’d perfer to be a sucky FBS program than to be the tallest of the Lilliputians. We have to sell this to donors to get $40,000,000, screw the FSL money. I can bet you that when they ask for money from folks with large pockets they tell them WHEN we’ll move to FBS and its not 30, or even 15 years. You can’t expect the general public or even most of our alums to get excited about FCS football. It most certainly will not attract major donors and especially corporate sponsors to our program to say “hey, your business will get advertisement on public access channels, give us $5,000,000!” FCS does not accomplish the goal of securing our other programs conference affiliation and support, it just won’t.

[QUOTE=X-49er;409616]

I agree wholeheartedly with you there. I would have preferred pledges for season tickets, as many as you wanted so long as you paid, and a donation to the 49er Club now that matched that amount. I think we could have raised more money that way and got a truer gauge of our supporters.[/QUOTE]

I would have perfered the Athletics Foundation to have a special program just for football donations to secure better season tickets through donations. Then offer seat licenses for the Club Level (Gold) seats once there’s a stadium design to show people. This stadium better be all seats and no bleachers for $1000 a seat. I could have lived with bleachers under the program I just suggested. There’s a lot of folks who are betting that they won’t have to purchase any FSL’s and will walk up on game day, buy their tickets and laugh. Right now they look to be right.

X-49er · May 22, 2009, 4:11am

[QUOTE=Over40NINER;409620]I agree, and that’s my point. Lots of people will buy FSLs if they know we’ll be a major player, but not when no one knows where we’re going.[/QUOTE]

That’s what I was trying to get across in my above posts. We don’t even know that we can get in a CUSA level conference at this point. Jumping to FBS with no guarantees to get in a legit conference is a scary proposition. I don’t like the unknown with all of this, but I would dislike a false promise of a big time conference even more if we did not actually get it after making the jump.

X-49er · May 22, 2009, 4:17am

[QUOTE=49RFootballNow;409621]FCS does not accomplish the goal of securing our other programs conference affiliation and support, it just won’t.[/QUOTE]

Not having football will certainly un-secure it.

We’re in the same stratosphere, but if I’m a big corporation and the Charlotte AD asks me to donate $5,000,000, the first question would probably be the one you asked, and the second question would be “what conference are you going to play in when you get there”? I would try not to laugh when I was told Sun Belt or Independent. We can’t control that. We can only put ourselves in a position to try to get in the Big East (or other good conference) when they decide to split again. Being an also-ran in a bad FBS conference is not the way to do that, either. That wouldn’t be good for football, and might kill basketball, too.

49RFootballNow · May 22, 2009, 4:35am

X, I would support FCS football over no football but you can’t ask people to buy seats for FCS football. It won’t sell except to your diehards and we have bought ours already.

NinerJags · May 22, 2009, 5:02am

FSL's were a mistake at this point anyway. I don't even know if a Big East gaurantee would sale those FSL's.
I do know this:

There are at least 15,000 casual fans who would buy game day tickets in this city for FCS football.

There are at least 35,000 casual fans who would buy game day tickets in this city for non-BCS FBS football.

There are at least 65,000 casual fans who would buy game day tickets in this city for BCS FBS football.

But none of them at any level want to invest in, dare I say it? FANTASY SEATS!

This U is trying to do this cheap and have US pay for this when every other U that has done this in the last 3 decades had to lead the investment in football, not follow it.

Those numbers are very hard to back up. So, an Arkansas State vs Charlotte football game would draw 35000? Let’s cut to the chase, if it weren’t FSLs or seats and the question was simply how many people would pay 1000 over a 4 year period, how many supporters should that total? Get past all of the excuses about stadium renderings, where we will play, what classification, what conference, etc. In short, assume your dollars bought you nothing other than laying the groundwork for Charlotte football. Are you willing to pay 1000 or 250 a year to start football, yes or no? The other conversation is just noise that confuses the issue. Right now, a lot of the people that were thought to be on the train are no where to be found, and every excuse in the world is starting to surface.

EE9er · May 22, 2009, 5:13am

For comparison, ECU averaged 40K for their home games last year, that’s with the likes of UTEP and Houston coming to town. I think with the little help we get from the city of Charlotte we could get 35K at the games in Charlotte.

upperdeck · May 22, 2009, 11:40am

[QUOTE=EE9er;409633]For comparison, ECU averaged 40K for their home games last year, that’s with the likes of UTEP and Houston coming to town. I think with the little help we get from the city of Charlotte we could get 35K at the games in Charlotte.[/QUOTE]

I’ll say it again…Greenville is ECU. ECU is very very well integrated into the community financially, socially, and physically. Even in sports with mediocre success they draw fans because it is their hometown team.

We have just about none of that. There are people that live less than a mile from campus that have never even driven “through the gates.”

Over40NINER · May 22, 2009, 11:59am

I'll say it again...Greenville is ECU. ECU is very very well integrated into the community financially, socially, and physically. Even in sports with mediocre success they draw fans because it is their hometown team.
We have just about none of that.

I still fail to understand why we should accept “having just about none of that”. There is no law stating we are not allowed to have hometown support.

bigb62084 · May 22, 2009, 1:35pm

[QUOTE=NinerJags;409631]…assume your dollars bought you nothing other than laying the groundwork for Charlotte football. Are you willing to pay 1000 or 250 a year to start football, yes or no?[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Would we even be having this conversation if they weren’t selling FSL’s but instead asking alumni to support the initiative without anything in return. We are a young alumni base who obviously is always asking what the school can do for us and not what we can do for the school. We have raised between 2-3 million through FSL sales. I highly doubt if we asked our alumni to just donate we would see anything near that number right now if ever. For those who would rather had the university ask for donations than the sale of FSL’s without renderings, just look at the $1000 as a donation. Except, this time you receive something in return.

I would love to see stadium renderings and such, but I would much rather see 5000 die hard niner/football fans purchase FSL’s without this demand. I know eventually we will sell the 5000 FSL’s, but the problem I see is that a high percentage of the people who are going to make up the last 2/3 of the FSL’s are the same fans who will always be asking the university “What have you done for me lately?”. The same type of fans that when the panthers aren’t doing well are not showing up at the games.

upperdeck · May 22, 2009, 1:44pm

[QUOTE=Over40NINER;409639]I still fail to understand why we should accept “having just about none of that”. There is no law stating we are not allowed to have hometown support.[/QUOTE]

I agree…just pointing it out again.

Wonder how many faculty and staff have purchased FSL’s? And we expect people with no association to Charlotte to “step up and buy” or give big dollars? This phase is about us. The ones that love this school. If we can’t do it ourselves, do we really deserve it?

We have enough trouble supporting current programs ourselves.

Savio · May 22, 2009, 2:25pm

Charlotte 49er Football would be competing for entertainment dollars here. Just because we build it, doesn’t mean they will come. That goes for alumni or the casual fan. Charlotte has a vast array of sporting entertainment so a family who is budgeted for entertainment is going to look for the best entertainment for the best value. It’s just that much harder since no one knows the entertainment value.

As far as Greenville, they lack what Charlotte has in sporting entertainment so they can generally pull those numbers with the general public and alums alike.

919R · May 22, 2009, 2:26pm

Sometimes when you go for broke, that's exactly what you get. [B]If you guys would be happier with no football team than a 20-year FCS team, then that mindset may just leave us without a team[/B]. FCS will not fail here. If it can work in Boone, and Statesboro, it can definitely work here. Are you going to cancel your FSL's and season tickets if we play FCS for a long while? I wouldn't. Hell, I would prefer to build up the program for more than the minimum and play in a FCS conference and try to win something rather than wander around in oblivion for the next 10 years at both levels. If we're successful at the FCS level after 5-6 years, then we can move up.
Having A football team > Having NO football team

Some need to come to grips with that and quit expecting us to become Florida in 10 years. Football will bring in its own group of supporters who don’t care about any other sport. That’s fine, but if you think that group is larger than the group that already supports an underfunded athletic program at this point I’d say you’re wrong.

That’s hogwash. We haven’t even sold the 5000 that people PROMISED to buy, and you think we’re going to add another 5000 on top of those just because we announce we’re going to FBS in 5 years? It was already announced that we will go as soon as the support is there, be it 5 years, 8 years, 10 years, or 20 years. Guess what, it ain’t there yet. We are going to FBS when it is. Anyone that does not know that has not been paying attention. Blame it on the economy, an apathetic fan base, or whatever other reason you want to conjure up, but blaming the low FSL sales on not announcing a timeline to FBS is laughable.

You’re missing MY entire point. I didn’t say I would prefer “nothing” over FCS. I will keep my FSLs no matter what division we’re in and I will still be very excited on opening day. However, this does not change the fact that according to our administration, the “tipping point” (ie; reason for finally doing this) is so we can align/join a “decision-making” conference, PERIOD!!! No ifs, ands or buts about it. This school will not do this if the plan was to stay indefinitely in FCS, I promise you that. If we do start this program (no matter what our Admin. says publicly) then that will mean we have a “plan/timetable” to get to FBS.

Playing in the FCS will help with community, student and alumni support but it will do NOTHING to get us in the Big East.

Normmm · May 22, 2009, 4:28pm

Exactly! Would we even be having this conversation if they weren't selling FSL's but instead asking alumni to support the initiative without anything in return. We are a young alumni base who obviously is always asking what the school can do for us and not what we can do for the school. We have raised between 2-3 million through FSL sales. I highly doubt if we asked our alumni to just donate we would see anything near that number right now if ever. For those who would rather had the university ask for donations than the sale of FSL's without renderings, just look at the $1000 as a donation. Except, this time you receive something in return.

The difference is, with the FSLs you have to make a $1000 (most people will want at least 2 tickets, $2,000) donation or no football. Opposed to, I want football, here is my $150 (or whatever a person can afford) donation towards the effort and I’ll buy 2 season tickets too. The $1,000 isn’t arbitrary.

LeftyNiner · May 22, 2009, 4:37pm

[QUOTE=Normmm;409685]The difference is, with the FSLs you have to make a $1000 (most people will want at least 2 tickets, $2,000) donation or no football. Opposed to, I want football, here is my $150 (or whatever a person can afford) donation towards the effort and I’ll buy 2 season tickets too. The $1,000 isn’t arbitrary.[/QUOTE]

You can donate whatever amount you want towards the football campaign. It’s just that you get a nice benefit/reward if you donate $1000. Look at it that way. Maybe they should approach it that way. Football fundraising campaign in general.

stonecoldken · May 22, 2009, 5:40pm

What do you get for your $1,000?
I don’t know: the eternal gratitude of the next 200-300 years worth of students, the same satisfaction as PSL holders have over single-ticket buyers who don’t get as good a seat, the pride in making your school able to compete with the big boys, not having to take sh*t off of A&T & Savannah St. grads on us not having a team, etc. etc.

stonecoldken · May 22, 2009, 5:41pm

Doesn’t the school have 70,000 Alums in Meck?
Contact everyone that they need to buy at least 1 FSL, or we’ll tell the HR Hiring Depts. that check resumes that they didn’t go to school here, & don’t hire them because they’re a liar.