Jimmy was that information given to you based off of the amount of students we have now or the amount of students we will have. If football takes 5 years to develop we will most likely have close to 27,500 students
[QUOTE=ninerID;195691]having a football program would bring in better students. A lot of good students pass over our school due to the lack of football. [/QUOTE]
I hope you mean that having a football team would make the name of the school visible to more prospective students.
As much as I want to see the athletics of my alma mater succeed, it has nothing to do with choosing a career, and the required education.
[QUOTE=The Provider;195681]Thatâs not the argument. The GA wouldnât be âpissedâ at the effort, but hereâs how I think the conversation would goâŚsort of a âfantasyâ conversation:
Erskine Bowles: So Phil, weâve got to get you out of that 15th spot in university funding. A school like UNC Charlotte is too important to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.
Dr. Dubois: Youâre right Erskine. Our school is growing by leaps and bounds and busting at the seams. Our masters and doctoral programs are bringing us recognition, and yet the state doesnât treat us like weâre serious. We should be getting funding similar to other leading universities in the system.
Erskine: So what are your priorities for UNC Charlotte this year Phil? You know, the things that you need to get help for in RaleighâŚ
Dr. Dubois: Well, I was thinking a football team should be first and foremost. I know we donât have enough research labs and salary dollars to attract the top professors in the country as a result of being pushed to the back of the funding train for so long in this state â so I think the one thing I really need your help on is football. The other academic funding shortfalls can wait until we get this priority item out of the way.
Erskine: UhâŚSo you are lacking classroom and lab space, falling behind in the arms race on professor salaries, but your top priority is footballâŚ
Dr. Dubois: Sure is. When I was in Wyoming, we had the only division I football program in the state and drew upwards of 18,000 people to our games. The banks and other corporations in town just recently told me that they would rather us have a football team than produce more qualified job applicants, so I am just following their lead.
Erskine: Ok Phil. Iâll let you know what the legislature says about improving UNC Charlotteâs funding issuesâŚ
OK â now take your shots at this. Most of this is obviously tongue in cheek, but the point is, IF Dr. Phil is working the back channels in Raleigh to move UNC Charlotte up in funding (which we DESERVE!!!), isnât it remotely reasonable that him making a priority of football could hurt his âpullâ among those in Raleigh genuinely concerned with the future âacademicâ health of UNC Charlotte? I would venture to say that panhandling for extra dollars in the halls of the legislature would be damaged IF he decided to add something that âstatisticallyâ loses major money at virtually every non-BCS school in the country? I donât care what the websites say about UAB or Wyoming or whoever else that is breaking even or making a little money. Lefty has identified how UAB âshows a profitâ.
As an example of where we are short funded â the financial aid office at Charlotte has less personnel than NC Central, Appalachian, etcâŚschools half our size. Of course it makes sense, since UNC Charlotte gets less financial aid funding from the state than those schools either.[/QUOTE]
You make excellent points.
One of the main issues is the fact that we have not received our fair share of money for academics throughout the years and now have to play catch-up.
Would unc-chapel hill be forcefully put into a situation like this? No way. They would receive whatever money they needed, whether it be for academics or athletics. The same goes for unc-r.
While Dr Phil asks the state for more of our fair share for academics, the football supporters need to continue the push for football. Then perhaps the âright time for footballâ will get here sooner than anyone thinks.
[QUOTE=The Provider;195669]UhâŚwhat office did she run for? I understand that she has to be âpoliticallyâ correct at times, but you make it sound like she is a ten term congressman with the âthese peopleâ comment. I donât follow this whole uproar. It may be possible that in her venacular, fantasy is equal to all of these other âsuggestedâ better terms. A lot easier to come up with substitute phrases when you get to sit down at a computer and have hours and a thesaurus handy vs. a microphone shoved in your face with the light on.[/QUOTE]
I mean this in the nicest possible way.
do you think Judy deserves any criticism? Whatsoever over the last 15 years? yourself and a couple obvious others do nothing but sing her praises, no matter. I would take your defense of Judy a little more seriuosly if you could admit her obvious inadequacies, that are more than obvious.
[QUOTE=ninerID;195692]I think 250 a year would be ample, funny how UNCA and UNCC have high student feeâs and neither have football. Please give me a link to this info.
The 6.5% doesnât pertain to UNC Charlotte <- You just got provided.[/QUOTE]
Why does the 6.5% not apply to UNC Charlotte?
[QUOTE=mineshaft;195693]Yeah, this is so freaking difficult Provider. I guess USF doesnât live in the real world. Oh yeah, they live in the Big East. UNC Pembroke and Old Dominion are also living in the fantasy world. If this is the case, letâs go live in fantasy land and get a football team.[/QUOTE]
USF has a publicly financed stadium and ODU is doing it with a $300 per student, student fee. I donât oppose that at all, just think it would be difficult in NC. Virginia schools have athletic fees that average almost $750 per student. NC schools are closer to $400-425. Different philosophy I suppose. As for UNCP, they are division II, which is cheaper and not an option for Charlotte.
[QUOTE=Jimmyhat49er;195695]Make that a moronic wet blanket⌠Just kidding, you bring up many excellent points all of which need to taken into consideration.
No one has suggested $250 a semester. I am told by people in the Athletic Dept. That $250 a year increase would fund football and Title 9. So that would put us at $675 and at the 1-AA level a $200 a year increase would probably be sufficent. ODU raised their fees $300 for football.[/QUOTE]
Just refering to someoneâs signature (canât remember whose) that says something to the effect of 20,000 x $250 a semester⌠I think the ODU $300 is about right - but how do we get the NC board of govs to sign off on it?
[QUOTE=ninerID;195691]having a football program would bring in better students. A lot of good students pass over our school due to the lack of football. As a senior in high school i really knew very little about UNC Charlotte except that bobby lutz coached there and that he had a decent basketball team. I didnât want to go to State and i had a serious high school girlfriend so i didnt want to go to far away.
We didnât start this school 5 years ago. We are 60 years old. A football team didnât put us at 15 on the list, of 16.
as far as NC System funding for athletics, i think that most of us just think âtheyâre doing it, why canât weâ
As for the UAB stuff i would really love for Lefty to provide a link to that information. He has posted it 3 times, but still no link. Until then I will think that he is planting that information for someone.[/QUOTE]
I donât disagree that it would help in a lot of regards, but donât you agree that since we are already the fastest growing school in the system, selling the âmore students will comeâ argument isnât going to sway too many of the power brokers in Raliegh? Theyâre coming anyway⌠As far as the funding issue, my point is most of those schools that are getting some sort of help for athletics by the state (NCSU, ECU, UNCCH) have already kinda gotten the other academic funding nut cracked. They are 1, 2, and 3 on the âbeen taken care ofâ list. With us being 15th or so, we have to scratch to get up the first list before resources can be devoted to the second one (athletics). I am NOT saying that is right, but I would venture to say that the other schools in the bottom half of the funding model are not getting âtheirsâ for athletic enhancements.
[QUOTE=metro;195705]I mean this in the nicest possible way.
do you think Judy deserves any criticism? Whatsoever over the last 15 years? yourself and a couple obvious others do nothing but sing her praises, no matter. I would take your defense of Judy a little more seriuosly if you could admit her obvious inadequacies, that are more than obvious.[/QUOTE]
I donât generallt comment on Judyâs abilities one way or the other. Seems like the litmus test on the board for some is âyou canât be taken seriouslyâ unless you jump on board the âjudyâs got to goâ bandwagon. I generally try to see the big picture and donât subscribe to the âbuild it and they will comeâ or âdo it no matter the consequencesâ theories. Your post begs the questions âDo you think Judy does anything right?â She has raised a tremendous amount of money for physical facilities because the state doesnât help out on that front. What are her âobvious inadequaciesâ? She hasnât added football? I believe that decision rests in a whole lot more hands than hers. Can she be an advocate for it? Maybe. But if #2 at Wachovia decides that he wants to take a different corporate strategy than #1, #2 usually is looking for another job. You would interpret that as being weak and not doing her job, but âadding footballâ is not her job. Running a well balanced athletic department is. Conference championships, academic all-americans, pretty strong basketball and some of the better facilities in the south are all testament that she hasnât been sitting around doing nothing for the last 15 years. She just hasnât been doing what you and some others want her to be doing, which is spearheading football.
I donât direct this specifically at you Metro, but who on this board has done fundraising? I have and its not as easy as some would think. And anyone who says they have, and it was easy, is being less than truthful. Wachovia and BofA gave $1 million each in the last capital campaign to the University. It was released today that each pledged $15 million to the Arts Council drive. See if you can figure out the corporate philosophy statement there.
I have no idea why you resorted to calling me a moron....So after this, I'll make sure not to disappoint you with any future responses to your posts.Oh, no no I wasn't calling you a moron. I wasn't trying to insult you. I was saying 'if [I]one [/I]thought fantasy dollars and pledges were equivalent statements...'
Sorry if I wasnât clear enough.
As far as the "right off the top of my head" comment -- that isn't true. You had ample time to process what she said and make a response. I don't doubt you came up with those rather quickly, but the fact remains, you weren't in front of a TV camera and you took more time typing your response than she had making her soundbite.I strongly doubt that under the minimal extra pressure of a tv interview many people would choose to call pledges "fantasy dollars" because that was the first thing that came to their head. And I'm sure Judy had been thinking about it some before the interview. Enough to know we were collecting pledges and not anything close to fantasy dollars.
forget to put the second âCâ on the name of the school on the proposalâŚ
School: UNC Agenda: To raise student fees to fund football.
Oh yeah! I love Chapel Hill, they need alot of help for their football. Let's give them this. I don't even need to read the other 10 pages of legal explanation crap. Just approve it!
:shades:
WowâŚthere is so much here I donât even know where to begin.
First off, I appreciate Provider and his info. Itâs not as if I want football so badly that I want to ignore all the obstacles. In fact, Iâd like to gather as much info as possible to gauge what football could mean for the school as accurately as possible. Provider isnât a âwet blanketâ, he just argues valid points. I certainly would not call him a politician.
I cannot say the same for the administration. Have you ever really listened to Dubois or Rose (to a lesser extent) speak? Itâs utterly ridiculous at times. Trying to get any real info out of them is impossible since you have to put up with hearing all kinds of gladhanding, name-dropping, Top 10 lists that say nothing, and other political mumbo-jumbo. Then youâll read a puke-inducing Observer article where everyone on the schoolâs payroll will sing their praises about how smart, funny, and good-looking they are. Itâs enough to make you want to grab the nearest red-hot soldering gun so you can jab it in your eye.
The result is a âWe canât do it because I said soâ attitude with a Machiavellian method of job security that causes us to eventually lash out at someone like Provider. Iâm glad Judy at least admits that the school has not researched the possibility since its seems like she pulls numbers out of the sky to fight against it. I donât recall Provider ever doing that.
That said, allow me to personally attack Provider 
Someone on the board asked me if it was better for the school to start a med school instead of football and I agreed that a med school would be better. The problem is that the school seems to lack any initiative to follow through on the fantasy med school, the fantasy law school or the fantasy football team. In fact, I could pull up instances from the past where the school balked on the opportunities to push for such programs. I was even told recently that Dubois did not want to push for a med school program due to the proximity of Chapel Hillâs med school. Itâs like the med school people bicker with the law school people who bicker with the football people and nothing gets accomplished.
There is undeniable interest in football so thatâs as good a place to start as any. Erskine Bowles has no intention of providing a dime towards football facilities, anyway. My imaginary conversation would be to tell him that the school is going to try to start a Division IAA team, like our UNC Pembroke brother, and perhaps that will result in additional revenue for Charlotte and to the UNC system as a whole.
You mentioned that students pay $425 in fees. The school said that it uses $6 million from student fees to pay for the money lost for our athletics department. Is $250/semester an excessive amount of money for a football program? I donât know, and I doubt the school will know until a study is made. Just from looking at how other recent football programs spent their money, I highly doubt it would require $500 x 20K+ students. It would be impossible for little 2,000 student public schools to pay for Div IAA football if that was truly the case.
I guess thatâs enough of an answer for now. Maybe Iâll post more later.
I just want to say thanks to JHat for his continued valliant efforts and for keeping this topic in the forefront and keeping it from dying a fast death.
Why does the 6.5% not apply to UNC Charlotte?
Because of our funding level. I believe it is because more than 30% of our funding comes from tuition, meaning that if the school couldnât increase tuition to keep up with costs, the school would be in financial trouble. Basically, it doesnât apply because the state wonât give us the funding we need.
[QUOTE=The Provider;195707]Why does the 6.5% not apply to UNC Charlotte?[/QUOTE]
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15757470.htm
edit: Noreasterâs reply was better, more accurate.
[QUOTE=Roasty;195754][url]edit: Noreasterâs reply was better, more accurate, and LESS POLITICAL.
[/QUOTE]
Fixed
The political bridges Judy is worried about burning are the ones DuBois is trying to get our backed up funding over on.
The state owes us a lot of academic funding, and only now is DuBois making inroads into getting it from the General Assembly (Carolina Grads).
Even a I-AA program will send the Tarholes and Wolfpacker donors into a hissy fit, because anyone with a brain knows our goal is I-A.
These are the same donors who give to politicans, like the ones in the Gen. Ass.
Its hard enough for them to recruit in their own state against So. Car., Georgia, Tenn., and VT. Not to mention ECU and Wake doing well recruiting instate, plus they both really stink right now too.
Now here comes the 49ers in the middle of N. Car. most fertile football recruiting region! They wonât stand for it!!!
They will call their assemblymen and will hurt us in what ever way they can (academic funding).
DuBois has to secure this funding before he will ever commit to even looking at football. Wish I saw another way for it to happen.
DuBois wouldnât ask the state for football $, so Providerâs analogy is wrong. We would do football through fees & fundraising.
The GA raises tuition & fees for the privileged 2 all the time, so we wouldnât have a problem w/ raising fees.
I seriously doubt the privileged 2 alums will bitch to their state rep. about us getting football.
Provider sounds like someone in Judyâs office. Itâs called CYA.
As bad as their programs are now, with as much money as both have poured into them? The last thing they need is another instate school competing for recruits. Theyâld bitch alright, and hard!
College football is all about money and prestige, why else did ECU move up to I-A? Theyâre both already fighting us tooth and nail over the academic funds, Football would be fuel on the fire until those funds are in bank.
Does anyone know:
What the current debt on the SAC facility is?
How much each FT student pays/yr. towards satisfying the debt?