Yep. I totally agree and it bothers the hell out of me. Ben was a terrific character, and SO much time and effort was put into developing him. Now he’s spent the entire time just following people around the jungle. Its annoying. You are spot on with the Dogen character too. Don’t spend all this time on secondary characters you are passing off as primary characters if you are just gonna blow them up or drown them in a magic healing pool. It feels like sloppy story telling to me.
I’d say that was the actual ghost of Christian, trapped like Michael. Weren’t there whispers when Christian showed up on the boat? I may have to go back and watch.
I havent been a fan of the past 2 episodes. I know I'm in the minority on this here judging from the comments. The Illana explosion really bothers me, and its a reason that this show frustrates me so much. Why introduce her so late in the game, give her backstory and spend considerable time on her only to blow her up like that?
Since she’s in the ALT they are clearly not done with her. She may also make an appearance in E15 depending on the time period they cover.
I am a little annoyed that Ben has taken a step back, but I am hoping he still has a major role to play. He did kill Jacob, and it’s hard to play a bigger role than that in the overall story.
I disagree about Dogen and other minor characters. I think it’s good storytelling that they can build them up enough that you actually care when they die.
I get that. But is it a continuity issue, just because they don't have the time to show everybody. For instance, why hasn't Libby come back to help Hurley? Or Juliet to help Sawyer? Or Miles' dad? Etc.
Only those who have done wrong can’t pass on.
How's that? They mention being on the flight back from Australia, and regaining memories from being on the island.
By flash forward, I assume you mean the bomb didn’t create the reset and something they are still going to do on the island is going to create it. I used to think this was a possibility, but it doesn’t make sense at this point. That would make the flash sideways an epilogue, and in this epilogue they would gain knowledge of the island for either no purpose, or for some purpose that renders everything else we are seeing in the OR pointless.
If this isn’t what you mean let me know.
Excellent question! Especially Jack’s dad appearing to him in the hospital. As far as appearing to Michael on the boat, you could probably argue that he was still within the island’s grasp so to speak. Kind of like when Faraday was taking people off the island, he was officially off the island but when Ben moved the wheel he was close enough to the island that he time traveled with the island.
Nova what do you mean when you state OR? Original timeline?
Maybe it is just me, but I feel like Sayid and Claire both have the ability to not be on the “dark side”. I think it’s fairly obvious that Sayid didn’t kill Desmond, which would be a turn for the better, and even Claire isn’t as crazy as she could have shot Kate, and when she speaks to Jack she comes off as her old self. Just a thought that I’d highly suspect a shot at redemption for them, like Jacob has spoken of in the past.
I always thought of flash sideways as a glance at what their life would be like had they never been on the island. The purpose simply being how their life may have or have not been different. And flash forward as the time after being on the island.
As for the bomb, yes something still has to happen to get everything back to current. Maybe Widmore’s machine. Also, Juliet said the bomb worked.
I’d say that was the actual ghost of Christian, trapped like Michael. Weren’t there whispers when Christian showed up on the boat? I may have to go back and watch.[/quote]
That’s what I was referring to about the continuity of the ghosts. MiB said he used Christian’s body. Yet Michael was a ghost. Got me to thinking he was actually using Michael’s body too.
Its not that I care about the character. Guys like Dogen and Illana don’t get a lot of people emotionally invested in them. Instead, I just get pissed off because they introduce these characters either late or with the impression that they have some bigger meaning in the lost world only to kill them off. It makes me wonder why we spent anytime on them at all? I mean, could the story have been told without Dogen ever being introduced? Barring some major revelation over the last few episodes then the answer is most certainly yes.
We’ll see I guess. I think at this point, the build up for answers has been so great and so drawn out that anyway they end it is going to feel like a let down. To me anyway.
Its not that I care about the character. Guys like Dogen and Illana don’t get a lot of people emotionally invested in them. Instead, I just get pissed off because they introduce these characters either late or with the impression that they have some bigger meaning in the lost world only to kill them off. It makes me wonder why we spent anytime on them at all? I mean, could the story have been told without Dogen ever being introduced? Barring some major revelation over the last few episodes then the answer is most certainly yes.
We’ll see I guess. I think at this point, the build up for answers has been so great and so drawn out that anyway they end it is going to feel like a let down. To me anyway.[/quote]
They have used some of these characters to give us key information. Such as Dogen’s deal with Jacob and Jacob’s interaction with Illana.
Its not that I care about the character. Guys like Dogen and Illana don’t get a lot of people emotionally invested in them. Instead, I just get pissed off because they introduce these characters either late or with the impression that they have some bigger meaning in the lost world only to kill them off. It makes me wonder why we spent anytime on them at all? I mean, could the story have been told without Dogen ever being introduced? Barring some major revelation over the last few episodes then the answer is most certainly yes.
We’ll see I guess. I think at this point, the build up for answers has been so great and so drawn out that anyway they end it is going to feel like a let down. To me anyway.[/quote]
That’s exactly how I felt about Dogen. Here’s this other group of Others on the island that nobody knows about for 5 years. Dogen seems like a bad ass. Then they’re only in like 2 episodes.
Perhaps by showing these seemingly important characters as not important the producers are sticking to the theme of the island being bigger then all of them?
As for Illana, I wonder if Illana knows about the alt timeline. She seemed to know when she talked to Desmond. That would explain why she was killed off in alt timeline.
Yep -
OR - original reality/timeline (maybe OT is better)
ALT - alternate reality/timeline (I guess I should be using AR/AT)
Maybe it is just me, but I feel like Sayid and Claire both have the ability to not be on the "dark side". I think it's fairly obvious that Sayid didn't kill Desmond, which would be a turn for the better, and even Claire isn't as crazy as she could have shot Kate, and when she speaks to Jack she comes off as her old self. Just a thought that I'd highly suspect a shot at redemption for them, like Jacob has spoken of in the past.
What’s interesting about that to me is that I think the MiB knew Sayid was lying but didn’t do anything about it.
I always thought of flash sideways as a glance at what their life would be like had they never been on the island. The purpose simply being how their life may have or have not been different. And flash forward as the time after being on the island.
But do you agree that if the cause of the AR hasn’t taken place yet, for instance it takes place in the finale, doesn’t that make all of the action island pointless?
Based on what we know I suppose he could. But he’s only used bodies that he thought he could manipulate people with - Eko’s brother, Jack’s Dad, now Locke. Who could he manipulate using Micheal’s body?
Its not that I care about the character. Guys like Dogen and Illana don't get a lot of people emotionally invested in them. Instead, I just get pissed off because they introduce these characters either late or with the impression that they have some bigger meaning in the lost world only to kill them off. It makes me wonder why we spent anytime on them at all? I mean, could the story have been told without Dogen ever being introduced? Barring some major revelation over the last few episodes then the answer is most certainly yes.We’ll see I guess. I think at this point, the build up for answers has been so great and so drawn out that anyway they end it is going to feel like a let down. To me anyway.
If they don’t do anything more with Illana I will agree with you since they built her up as a main/significant character. As far as Dogen, it was pretty clear he was only one level above a redshirt and not a main character. The others needed a leader of some sort, so I do think he was a necessary part of the story. NWA did mention Jacob’s deal with him, which I am still holding onto as a possibility that Jacob and not the MiB is responsible for the AR.
nm
I’m still waiting to see if Juliet ties back into this somehow, likely in the Alt timeline.
Also, in the Alt timeline there is a constant reference to Jack’s wife, but she’s never shown. They showed her in flashbacks in past seasons, so I don’t know if there is anything there or not.
[quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1734, topic:8740”]I’m still waiting to see if Juliet ties back into this somehow, likely in the Alt timeline.
Also, in the Alt timeline there is a constant reference to Jack’s wife, but she’s never shown. They showed her in flashbacks in past seasons, so I don’t know if there is anything there or not.[/quote]
I thought for sure we’d see Juliet in this past episode, but I guess we’re now waiting until E16. And yes I do think she’s Jack’s ex wife.
She’s been busy kicking alien a$$ on V.
Hmmm. I think the island action does have a point because we don’t know how they got off the island, why they were there, any alliances that may have been made. If it had already happened then the finale wouldn’t be very good, IMO. For instance if the final 8 episodes had been all off island, post AR, there would be very little interest in the show. The “big get” is, how do they fix everything.
I think more like if the AR isn’t a flash forward then it’s sort of pointless.
[quote=“NovaNiner, post:1735, topic:8740”][quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1734, topic:8740”]I’m still waiting to see if Juliet ties back into this somehow, likely in the Alt timeline.
Also, in the Alt timeline there is a constant reference to Jack’s wife, but she’s never shown. They showed her in flashbacks in past seasons, so I don’t know if there is anything there or not.[/quote]
I thought for sure we’d see Juliet in this past episode, but I guess we’re now waiting until E16. And yes I do think she’s Jack’s ex wife.[/quote]
I just don’t see that making any sense… Then again, Sawyer is a cop in the Alt timeline. Also, in flashbacks his wife’s name was Sarah, although I found it odd she was pregnant similarly to Juliets sister (who had cancer, but her name wasn’t Sarah), and didn’t Juliet tell Jack one time that Sarah was happy or something like that? Also, if it is Juliet, why hide her away for a number of episodes? It seems like the easy pick to make is it to be Juliet (and if it’s b/c she’s been filming for that crap show “V” then give me a break). At this point Zoe would make more sense of somehow tying into the Alt timeline.
[quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1738, topic:8740”][quote=“NovaNiner, post:1735, topic:8740”][quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1734, topic:8740”]I’m still waiting to see if Juliet ties back into this somehow, likely in the Alt timeline.
Also, in the Alt timeline there is a constant reference to Jack’s wife, but she’s never shown. They showed her in flashbacks in past seasons, so I don’t know if there is anything there or not.[/quote]
I thought for sure we’d see Juliet in this past episode, but I guess we’re now waiting until E16. And yes I do think she’s Jack’s ex wife.[/quote]
I just don’t see that making any sense… Then again, Sawyer is a cop in the Alt timeline. Also, in flashbacks his wife’s name was Sarah, although I found it odd she was pregnant similarly to Juliets sister (who had cancer, but her name wasn’t Sarah), and didn’t Juliet tell Jack one time that Sarah was happy or something like that? Also, if it is Juliet, why hide her away for a number of episodes? It seems like the easy pick to make is it to be Juliet (and if it’s b/c she’s been filming for that crap show “V” then give me a break). At this point Zoe would make more sense of somehow tying into the Alt timeline.[/quote]
I was wondering if he was married/divorced prior to Sarah. His son’s age seems to be too old to be from Sarah.
[quote=“Normmm, post:1739, topic:8740”][quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1738, topic:8740”][quote=“NovaNiner, post:1735, topic:8740”][quote=“CharSFNiners, post:1734, topic:8740”]I’m still waiting to see if Juliet ties back into this somehow, likely in the Alt timeline.
Also, in the Alt timeline there is a constant reference to Jack’s wife, but she’s never shown. They showed her in flashbacks in past seasons, so I don’t know if there is anything there or not.[/quote]
I thought for sure we’d see Juliet in this past episode, but I guess we’re now waiting until E16. And yes I do think she’s Jack’s ex wife.[/quote]
I just don’t see that making any sense… Then again, Sawyer is a cop in the Alt timeline. Also, in flashbacks his wife’s name was Sarah, although I found it odd she was pregnant similarly to Juliets sister (who had cancer, but her name wasn’t Sarah), and didn’t Juliet tell Jack one time that Sarah was happy or something like that? Also, if it is Juliet, why hide her away for a number of episodes? It seems like the easy pick to make is it to be Juliet (and if it’s b/c she’s been filming for that crap show “V” then give me a break). At this point Zoe would make more sense of somehow tying into the Alt timeline.[/quote]
I was wondering if he was married/divorced prior to Sarah. His son’s age seems to be too old to be from Sarah.[/quote]
That’s one of the reasons why I feel like this whole Alt timeline isn’t totally the timeline that would have continued had they landed in LA. Some stuff has carry over, but the rest doesn’t.
- Jack and his kid
- Sawyer as a cop
- Desmond and Widmore being chums
Just to name a few.