I dunno if the pacing has been terrible, but it has certainly been different than what we have been used to. I rather like things clicking off a bit faster.[/quote]
They’ve dragged ass on advancing the story and numerous characters before in this series. Let’s not act like its a first. I imagine Tyrion isn’t just going to sit around and wait for Dany to return. His plot and the slavery will develop.
Also, not a body double Dany. I like.
It isn’t just about advancing the plot, its character development.
Tyrion should be a changed man based on his recent experiences. Instead, he fires off one liners like a caricature. They’re kind of funny, but that isn’t character development. That’s a pull string toy.
I dunno if the pacing has been terrible, but it has certainly been different than what we have been used to. I rather like things clicking off a bit faster.[/quote]
They’ve dragged ass on advancing the story and numerous characters before in this series. Let’s not act like its a first.[/quote]
“A girl has no name”… I got it already!
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:563, topic:25259”]It isn’t just about advancing the plot, its character development.
Tyrion should be a changed man based on his recent experiences. Instead, he fires off one liners like a caricature. They’re kind of funny, but that isn’t character development. That’s a pull string toy.[/quote]
He’s in a new roll as basically a person of power. He isn’t going to ride the bike on day one.
[quote=“CharSFNiners, post:565, topic:25259”][quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:563, topic:25259”]It isn’t just about advancing the plot, its character development.
Tyrion should be a changed man based on his recent experiences. Instead, he fires off one liners like a caricature. They’re kind of funny, but that isn’t character development. That’s a pull string toy.[/quote]
He’s in a new roll as basically a person of power. He isn’t going to ride the bike on day one.[/quote]
What’s new about it? Hes basically Dany’s Hand of the (Queen). Same job he had before in Kings Landing.
He goes through a lot more crap (some of it I am glad they edited out) in the books, and it starts to change his personality. Some of it is inner monologue, IIRC, but he does struggle with it. He has had a lot of personal issues, family issues. He drinks because of these, not because its funny or he “drink and knows things”. He is battling demons, including a fair amount of self loathing.
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:566, topic:25259”][quote=“CharSFNiners, post:565, topic:25259”][quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:563, topic:25259”]It isn’t just about advancing the plot, its character development.
Tyrion should be a changed man based on his recent experiences. Instead, he fires off one liners like a caricature. They’re kind of funny, but that isn’t character development. That’s a pull string toy.[/quote]
He’s in a new roll as basically a person of power. He isn’t going to ride the bike on day one.[/quote]
What’s new about it? Hes basically Dany’s Hand of the (Queen). Same job he had before in Kings Landing.
He goes through a lot more crap (some of it I am glad they edited out) in the books, and it starts to change his personality. Some of it is inner monologue, IIRC, but he does struggle with it. He has had a lot of personal issues, family issues. He drinks because of these, not because its funny or he “drink and knows things”. He is battling demons, including a fair amount of self loathing.[/quote]
As somebody who didn’t read the books it wasn’t rocket science to understand that’s why he drinks. I understand he held a similar if not part time roll while by joffrey’s side but it was a different beast and while he did good in it from a viewer perspective it wasn’t seen that way by his family and King (adds to his drinking problem) which likely makes this time around different. Atleast that’s how I interpret it.
Last night’s episode was one of the best in the series, in my opinion. More moving across most of the plot lines than we’ve seen recently, where the events have been focused on 2-3 lines per episode. It was a nice break from the Lannisters, too.
We learned that despite being no one, Arya is still very much a Stark at heart. In one of the more interesting plot devices we’ve seen on the show, too. I wonder if part of that play was employed to inform the newer somewhat casual viewer of the show that may not have seen season one of what happened or why Arya still matters. Who knows. It seemed somewhat out of place but fitting at the same time.
We also learned that Warging is far more complex than the non-book readers thought or understood (at least to me). I understood the present-time takeover, but didn’t realize that there is some weird space-time continuum stuff going on, too. I guess that Hodor’s destiny (and Bran’s…so maybe everyone’s?) was always pre-ordained. Another weird and interesting plot device that I was trying to wrap my head around but can now see where this is going to be key to the end-game.
The Sansa/Littlefinger spat feels contrived even though I’m sure Sansa is rightfully angry with him. She knows she needs his services, but she’s playing hard to get, which might not be in her best interest because she needs the knights of the Vale but Littlefinger is an opportunist so he’ll gladly take his men where he feels wanted, I think. I am not at all convinced that even with her new-found convictions, Sansa is even 1% capable of retaking Winterfell even if she had 10,000 men. She knows nothing about leading them and Jon cant seem to muster a careface. Ugh.
Dany and Jorah was the weakest part of the episode.
More politicking in Mereen, but at least the dialogue was more interesting this time. The new priestess of the Lord of Light hitting Varys where it hurts…or does it? Phantom pains? idk.
Finally, the Iron Islands. A bunch of pissed off sailors about to be in a civil war with each other? Probs a bad idea. Good luck building a thousand ships. Also, depriving your new king’s brain of oxygen for like 3 minutes seems to be not a good start to his decision-making ability. I hoped he would have just drowned.
…Hodor…
That Hodor scene was great, really nicely ties in the goofy only saying one word to something meaningful (and sad!). What I worry though is that the show will get lost in the same time travel trap that almost every show or movie falls into when they try it.
Interesting that Meera killed a white walker.
Not sure where Theon and Arya are going now. Sansa would seem to be wise to use Littlefingers’ help and then later try to turn the tables on him, but that doesn’t always work out well. Jon seemed to react a bit odd when Sansa told him the info about the Blackfish. Wonder if it’s not true, or maybe he suspects she’s lying to him.
It was interesting to see how Arya reacted particularly to the Sansa scenes in that play.
It was good in terms of plot development, but at times the writing was ham fisted. Very evident they are off source material now. Will comment below. I do agree with a nice break for the KL storyline, but we are gonna get a big dose of that next week.
We learned that despite being no one, Arya is still very much a Stark at heart. In one of the more interesting plot devices we've seen on the show, too. I wonder if part of that play was employed to inform the newer somewhat casual viewer of the show that may not have seen season one of what happened or why Arya still matters. Who knows. It seemed somewhat out of place but fitting at the same time.
The play was obviously a test by Jaqen H’ghar. The interesting part was how Arya essentially played herself again in that play, reliving the moment, which had to have been extremely painful. I’m not sure she was completely convincing in her answers afterwards. However she was also astute enough to discern who ordered the hit. I think that impressed JH, no matter what he said. Ultimately, I do not think she is going to give herself over to the many faced god. She is going to go rogue and/or remain a Stark. Which if you think about it, will likely result in a confrontation with JH who doesn’t want someone out in the world with the skills of a faceless man but none of the adherence to their ethos.
We also learned that Warging is far more complex than the non-book readers thought or understood (at least to me). I understood the present-time takeover, but didn't realize that there is some weird space-time continuum stuff going on, too. I guess that Hodor's destiny (and Bran's....so maybe everyone's?) was always pre-ordained. Another weird and interesting plot device that I was trying to wrap my head around but can now see where this is going to be key to the end-game.
Bran isn’t just a warg. He is a greenseer. While you are right that his warging powers are beyond what we have seen from others, it was a combination of his two abilities that allowed that drama to play out.
Going to white text some spoiler-ish speculation below. It’s technically only a spoiler if it actually happens(ed), but I don’t want to ruin it for anyone:
Questions arising from last night:
Is Bran the BloodRAveN? Are they the same person? Or is it like a Neo/matrix thing where he is the XXth incarnation? Bloodraven is also the 3 eyed crow, and remember Bran was told he couldn’t kill the crow because the crow was him (Bran)
Have you noticed that the faces on the weirwood trees look like Max Von Sydow (Bloodraven/3 eyed crow)?
Is Bran also Bran the Builder? (the one who built the wall)
Who else is/will Bran be whispering to?
Varys?
The Red Priests?
Melissandre? (whereby, she made Stannis ultimately ride to Jon’s rescue).
and here is one that will absolutely cook your noodle: Was he responsible for the whispers that the Mad King Aerys II heard? Remember his, last words were Burn Them All! What if that was a similar situation to Hodor? This one is a stretch, but if true, holy mind job.
BTW, I wasn’t clear from the show if that was intended to be the end of the Children of the Forest? Was that the last of them, or are there more?
(cont’d)
(cont’d)
The Sansa/Littlefinger spat feels contrived even though I'm sure Sansa is rightfully angry with him. She knows she needs his services, but she's playing hard to get, which might not be in her best interest because she needs the knights of the Vale but Littlefinger is an opportunist so he'll gladly take his men where he feels wanted, I think. I am not at all convinced that even with her new-found convictions, Sansa is even 1% capable of retaking Winterfell even if she had 10,000 men. She knows nothing about leading them and Jon cant seem to muster a careface. Ugh.
My only comments on this were: 1) it felt contrived because the writing sucked. I am sure GRRM is nursing an ulcer watching that and probably redrafting a chapter in frustration. I don’t think she will grovel to Peter Baelish. But I think Jon is going to be getting his ass kicked by the Boltons, and the Vale is going to ride to his rescue, and then all will be forgiven. Hopefully Lysa’s bratty son gets offed in the fighting.
Dany and Jorah was the weakest part of the episode.
Soap opera level writing. Good plot point, but god awful dialogue. GRRM ulcers again. I think Jorah heads off to Assh’ai, to the east, home of the Red Priests, in search of a cure. Remember, Melissandre was able to stop the disease in Shireen (Stannis’ daughter).
More politicking in Mereen, but at least the dialogue was more interesting this time. The new priestess of the Lord of Light hitting Varys where it hurts....or does it? Phantom pains? idk.
See my spoilery comments. I do wanna know what could possibly horrify the Spider. Varys is not easily shaken. Also, this high priestess (outranks Melissandre) also wore a necklace like hers. Likely old as dirt too.
Finally, the Iron Islands. A bunch of pissed off sailors about to be in a civil war with each other? Probs a bad idea. Good luck building a thousand ships. Also, depriving your new king's brain of oxygen for like 3 minutes seems to be not a good start to his decision-making ability. I hoped he would have just drowned.
Just a couple of book things here:
The Damphair (old dude white hair) is the high priest of the drowned god. They drown their priests to make them priests. I was hoping they would show this on the show. “What is dead [already], can never die.” That’s really messed up when you start thinking about the White Walkers and their walking dead army.
They combined Euron and Victarion. Balon had 2 brothers. One was a pirate (Euron), the other was more like Balon. I’m not sure what this means, other than they named him Euron, which suggests Eurons pirate past matters. There’s more in the books about him, so I’ll stop there.
It seems like this is likely going to be a race to get to Dany, though I don’t like Theon’s/ Yaras chances there. They cant go help Jon. No way Yara’s men will got for that. BTW, her name is Asha in the books, so if I slip into saying that, sorry.
As emotionally gut wrenching as the Hodor stuff was, the huge reveal of this episode was the Children/WW/Bran, and I now understand why the Tower of Joy scene was handled the way it was. This is going to get very interesting.
Also, realize that GRRM thought the Hodor thing up about almost 20 years ago. Talk about patience. Just amazing.
Biting my tongue so hard. Do realize that she used a dragon glass weapon though. The Children had them laying around.
For that matter though, it showed why Obsidian is the WW’s Kryptonite. Almost literally. Same deal as Supes.
I think you are overthinking the Bran/3EyedRaven thing. I think Bran is just the next 3EyedRaven.
Littlefinger will come to Jon/Sansa’s aid because that’s part of his plan, whether Sansa likes it or not. With Lord Robyn on his side FL will feel safe even if Brienne is standing behind him.
I think Yara/Asha’s supporters went with her because they are already on Team Yara or afraid of Euron that much. Theon will convince her to help Jon/Sansa/Tormond and then they’ll have their fleet. There is a good chance they go to Dany instead though. Euron has to build the boats to get to Dany first so they’ll beat him by years if they do.
I know why you’re biting your tongue about Meera, though I’m not on board with that theory just yet. How many damn heads does the Dragon have?
I have not read the books, or claim to even understand all of the plot lines in the show. But this is what I am guessing will eventually happen (and no this is not a spoiler I’ve heard elsewhere - it’s purely made up)
White text spoiler below:
White walkers are gonna kick a lot of ass. The Dragons will scorch a desert, creating a ton of dragon glass, which will be used by Dary’s army to subdue them. Close-ups of random dicks will be sprinkled in. Cue credits.
[quote=“donkeyjaws, post:575, topic:25259”]I have not read the books, or claim to even understand all of the plot lines in the show. But this is what I am guessing will eventually happen (and no this is not a spoiler I’ve heard elsewhere - it’s purely made up)
White text spoiler below:
White walkers are gonna kick a lot of ass. The Dragons will scorch a desert, creating a ton of dragon glass, which will be used by Dary’s army to subdue them. Close-ups of random dicks will be sprinkled in. Cue credits.[/quote]
When the actor was showing off his two new warts last night, my wife and I both started to sing the altered GoT theme song from the South Park parody episode.
I think its also significant that she is one of 3 people alive who have killed a WW.
[quote=“NinerAdvocate, post:572, topic:25259”]Also, realize that GRRM thought the Hodor thing up about almost 20 years ago. Talk about patience. Just amazing.[/quote]Figures that the explanation for “Hodor” was first thought up by GRRM. The best scenes from the show continue to be his ideas. Hopefully he has major input into how the t.v. is going to end.
I think its also significant that she is one of three people alive who have killed a WW.[/quote]
I just don’t think there’s enough evidence to support it at this point. Perhaps they’ll reveal more later (books or TV) but it’s not that convincing yet and everything I’ve seen related to it is that the actors playing them look similar and their characters are about the same age.
Pretty sure one of those three people have no relationship to the other two at all genetically, but I admit that the idea of Samwell being a closet Targaryen is amusing to me. Having obsidian at hand seems to be the only important factor in killing a WW.
Side note: Can’t wait to see Sam’s homecoming next week.
[quote=“49RFootballNow, post:574, topic:25259”]Littlefinger will come to Jon/Sansa’s aid because that’s part of his plan, whether Sansa likes it or not. With Lord Robyn on his side FL will feel safe even if Brienne is standing behind him.[/quote] I don’t know if the writers will go this way, but it would be pretty easy for Sansa to turn the teenage boy Lord Robyn against Littlefinger.
I wonder if that’s how Littlefinger goes down, upended by someone he tutored in the art of scheming.