Canāt you make the case that Dany still the most qualified ruler of the seven kingdoms? Jon isnāt cunning enough to be an effective leader. If all the kingdoms become independent or form a representative republic they will continue the chaos vying for power to dominate Westeros.
Your argument is sound except for the fact that she just committed an atrocity against the people she means to rule at a level Stalin would be proud of. Sheās Queen by might only.
Also, I have for years thought that the entire point of the books was to show how badly a feudalistic society (or any type of non-democratic, authoritarian society - we can get deep into the intended parallels to modern society if necessary) tramples on the lives of the masses. For that reason, a lot of people think a part of the Dream of Spring may be ending the iron throne, and monarchy for good, and replacing it with a democratic system. If you think about it, Westeros (and Essos) have been stuck in medieval development for thousands of years - and the stupid power grabs and warring are a big reason why.
The counterpoint is that the Valyrians (of which the Targaryeans were just a minor house) had a highly advanced society, and they were warlike as hell. Difference being is that they also had advanced magic / science.
But back to the Jon / Dany discussion - there is also very much the story theme that anyone who desires power is most likely a terrible candidate to receive it, and I definitely think GRRM intended that. Jon is the classic reluctant hero / ruler. I think thereās a greater debate about the soundness of his decisions, but he is definitely that archetype.
I am reminded of a quote that I am taking out of context:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. The Second Coming, William Butler Yeats
Thatās what frustrating, if she had stopped when the bells rang it would have been easy to state she was the best ruler for The Seven Kingdoms. Instead she committed mass murder of innocents for no strategic reason other than āLet it Be Fearā ?
Is she clinically insane like her father, or was it was realpolitik decision? Either way it makes no sense, thereās been no insanity shown despite everything she has endured, and if it was cold logic being used there, well it wasnāt logical.
It was beautiful and terrifying episode when you saw what the masses were enduring, but it made no sense for her to do that.
Not convinced yet he can properly close out this story given these are probably his cliff notes but he canāt do worse.
UPROXX: Just Make The Finale Of āGame Of Thronesā About Tormund And The Dog.
I got the closure I needed.
I was rooting for Ghost
Everything was fine, right up till Drogon took Daeneryās body and flew off to Narnia. After that it was a shitshow, save for Ghost and the Small Council meeting.
Why is there even a Nights Watch to send AeJon too? Its basically a prison system where you can choose to leave and become the Wildling King if you want. Now heās king of the ārealā North. Good going Grey Worm. You sure punished his ass!
Sansa is queen of the North, you know the place where the Wall is? She can pardon Jon and Bran wouldnāt say shit. Whoās going to fight for Danyās ghost now that the Unsullied are the Naathian National Guard. By Dothraki rules Jon should be their Khal now.
And donāt get started on Arya the Explorer.
āWhere in Planetos isā¦Arya Stark!ā
This episode turned me into NAā¦sigh.
Just my thoughts on the series:
Season 7 and 8 really could have, and probably should have been spread out to 4 or possibly even 5 seasons. I also live in the real world, and the success of this series was as much a curse as it was a blessing. I still think itās one of the greatest series weāll ever see. It has changed television. Star Wars is the visual media equivalent to Shakespeare in English Lit, so I get it. But itās like B&W had their neighbor as Jennifer Anniston their whole life, and she texted them to say she was moving to madagascar in 4 hours, but they had a lecture to watch for their online class so they had to watch it at 8X speed in order to do both, and then the final exam was 90% from that lecture. I think they did just enough to get by, and get to Jennifer Annistonās house.
If you donāt blame GRRM at least a little bit for B&W not having source material, thatās incorrect.
I liked what they did with Bran, but I hate we didnāt see him for a lot of this season. All the stark children really got to live out what they wanted (save Bran). that was cool to see. I think knowing more about Bran would have made this better.
I always felt like the series was at least approaching government reform, so that was interesting to see.
I liked the Nightās watch finish. I think the problem everyone has with it was the entire point. I also donāt think Jon is their king. I think heās just Jon. I also donāt think Jon wanted to be in winterfell. He definitely didnāt want to be king.
The ghost scene was iconic.
It was fine, some good parts and some cringe-worthy parts. If they hadnāt rushed everything, as is clearly obvious to everyone, it couldāve been a pretty impressive way to wrap up the stories, though I think reversing the order of the destruction of Kingās Landing and the final battle with the white walkers could have worked a little better / been a bit more interesting, with a few edits to story and settings to make sense of it.
One silver lining for fans of the books: since Benioff and Weiss made a mess of things at the end in many peopleās minds, that provides a reason to anticipate what GRRM will do with it and a greater possibility he might change things up too. If the TV show had nailed the last two seasons, thereās less interest in the bookās version. Provided Martin finally finishes the books. He may also have to contend with the potential for rushing things, given heās planning to do just 2 more books to wrap things up.
NA, last night you asked on Twitter āwhat was the pointā.
I think the point was to give us a realistic view on the fantasy genre. So many times in fantasy stories, the good guy wins and the bad guy loses. Game of Thrones was so much more real than that.
Game of Thrones showed us a much more realistic view of society, good, evil, cunning, bravery, stupidity, arrogance, mistakes and real humanity. I really think thatās what separates it.
GRRM:
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/
And Iām writing. Winter is coming, I told you, long agoā¦ and so it is. THE WINDS OF WINTER is very late, I know, I know, but it will be done. I wonāt say when, Iāve tried that before, only to burn you all and jinx myselfā¦ but I will finish it, and then will come A DREAM OF SPRING.
How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?
Wellā¦ yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.
I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before Iām doneā¦ and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, Iāll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that Iāve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the booksā¦ so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicornsā¦ of a sortā¦
Book or show, which will be the ārealā ending? Itās a silly question. How many children did Scarlett OāHara have?
How about this? Iāll write it. You read it. Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet.
Iāve left off the dozens of other projects he has going on, which is completely self serving. But it does sound like he at least thinks he is actually going to put WoW out.
Just want to take a moment to thank all the great YouTube channels that sprang up around this show. I am already anticipating withdrawal from my weekly dose of criticism, humor, theory, and just genuine love of the books and the show. These have been my podcasts for years - and made a lot of work hours slide by a lot faster.
Just a few of the dozens of really good ones that I will miss, all for different reasons, as they each have their own style:
New Rockstars - big commercial one that specializes in pointing out things you missed and context.
The Ringer - Talk The Thrones. This one was the most like Talking Dead, though I think Mallory Rubin is better than anyone thatās ever been on that show. If you are a sports fan, you know these guys too. Basically its leftover grantland staff.
In Deep Geek - I wish I had found this one before I did. This guy REALLY knows his stuff, he has the calm voice and the accent and delivery that are great, but his insight was always fantastic too. I always learned something from his videos.
Smokescreen - Kannapolis based guy. I am pretty sure he is a CHeat fan, but Chris, and his sidekick James are as devout and knowledgeable as any fans, and he brings that local flavor to his videos. He was also one of the biggest proponents of the Godās Eye / Children of the Forest endgame for the War for the Dawn, which is why I gravitated to him initially, as I had some of the same ideas. His āA Dragon Raised by Wolvesā I through V specials are kinda meandering, but they include some of the best discussion of the early secret plot points and themes of the show that anyone ever did. He absolutely killed R+L=J early on (I still cannot believe that was so meaningless in the end).
bridge4 - just another really good delivery channel with excellent knowledge and not shy about taking educated guesses about the endgame. IIRC, he was the first person I ever came across that predicted that Dany would be the ultimate bad guy in the show - and it was like 6 years ago that he said it. I was on board with him for a long time with that belief, but thought they had developed her character past that pointā¦ Oops.
Alt-Shift-X - amazingly thorough british dude, with some of the best video editing of anyone out there. His stuff was on point, and his editing images together to make jokes and explain his theories made his videos cant-miss events.
Ideas of Ice & fire - Iāll admit this guy wasnāt as high on my list, but he has been nailing the poor quality of season 8 since it started. He knows his stuff and is completely unforgiving.
A bunch of the above guys got together and wrote a book about how GoT took over popular culture.
Kim Renfro - doesnāt have a youtube channel that I know of, but she was a fun Twitter follow, and wrote a book about the show.
The Unofficial Guide to Game of Thrones
All of these guys have their stuff still archived on YouTube and are still active at the end of the show, but I am not sure how much longer. If you are a really big fan and wanna waste some time, Iād recommend any of them.
@Nineradvocate, I think it was you that posted the season 8 GOT playlist on spotify that supposedly told how the season was going to go. Have you put any thought into the list now that the show is over?