Rodney White is easily better than any player Watkins ever had.Eddie Basden was as good as, if not better than any of those guys too. Only Demarco out of that group was close to NBA material.
Basden (as good as he was) was no Demarco Johnson…sorry!..just ask yourself, if Melvin had Lutz teams, would he have done any better and if so, why did he drive Texas A&M into the ground? While his replacement almost immediately turned A&M around?
[QUOTE=919R;374321]Watkins had Lutz on his bench calling the shots and had several exceptional players brought in by Mullins!..Hand, meet silver platter![/QUOTE]
Gosh, just because you don’t like Wat doesn’t mean you have to give credit to everyone else. Geez!
The man has several years left on his contract, & we aren’t rich like UNC, so we can’t buy people out, so all of this talk is premature.
Rodney White is easily better than any player Watkins ever had.Eddie Basden was as good as, if not better than any of those guys too. Only Demarco out of that group was close to NBA material.
I believe Colson did make it to the NBA. Granted, not a traditional roster spot, so I see your point. But I think if you put Colson on any of the rosters after he played, we immediately become a much better team.
I guess Galen getting drafted doesnt count either.
[QUOTE=919R;374324]Basden (as good as he was) was no Demarco Johnson…sorry!..just ask yourself, if Melvin had Lutz teams, would he have done any better and if so, why did he drive Texas A&M into the ground? While his replacement almost immediately turned A&M around?[/QUOTE]
Different situations. I am not saying that Melvin would have done any better, but the idea that those teams were so much better isn’t really grounded in reality. The 03-04 team we had was as good as any team (save one in 77) that has ever suited up in Niner green.
Also, DeMarco was no Eddie Basden either. They were different players, neither one made it in the NBA. Rodney was the only NBA level player we’ve had in this era and he was not here under Watkins.
[QUOTE=run49er;374325]Gosh, just because you don’t like Wat doesn’t mean you have to give credit to everyone else. Geez![/QUOTE]
Especially since you can flip this argument and say that since Melvin didn’t have the calibre team to win CUSA (when it was generally considered to be a weaker conference), what he did was more impressive. Two post season berths + no first round exits.
Regardless, Melvin did a great job and Bobby did as well in the early years. But, it is easier to succeed with a program that is already succeeding than to maintain or excell. Bobby has managed to regress. Melvin wasn’t here long enough to show what he could and couldn’t do.
[QUOTE=Normmm;374334]I believe Colson did make it to the NBA. Granted, not a traditional roster spot, so I see your point. But I think if you put Colson on any of the rosters after he played, we immediately become a much better team.[/QUOTE]
We haven’t had a PG as good as Colson, you’re correct. But Bobby has had his fair share of equally or more talented teams. Melvin never had a player on the level of Rodney White.
Basden (as good as he was) was no Demarco Johnson....sorry!............just ask yourself, if Melvin had Lutz teams, would he have done any better and if so, why did he drive Texas A&M into the ground? While his replacement almost immediately turned A&M around?
The players Gillespe flipped into a job at Kentucky were Watkins’ recruits. He did a good job recruiting some high profile players, but never got it together.
Watkins got the players for A&M, but was fired before they started winning. He is A&M B-Ball. His successor, Gillespie, is a coat-tail rider.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374309]Rodney White is easily better than any player Watkins ever had.
[/QUOTE]
Probably, but DeMarco as a Jr/Sr was better than Rodney as a freshman. Way, way smarter player.
Ah, the good old days.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374341]Different situations. I am not saying that Melvin would have done any better, but the idea that those teams were so much better isn’t really grounded in reality. The 03-04 team we had was as good as any team (save one in 77) that has ever suited up in Niner green.
Also, DeMarco was no Eddie Basden either. They were different players, neither one made it in the NBA. Rodney was the only NBA level player we’ve had in this era and he was not here under Watkins.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not trying to say that Lutz would have done what Melvin was able to do. It would have been very interesting to see how Demarco was utilized with Bobby as the head coach. It’s hard to compare Rodney & Demarco. Rodney was a much more inside-outside player and Demarco was a true post player (with some range). I disagree that making it in the NBA legitimizes how good of a college player they were though. Rodney White had more [B]potential[/B] than Demarco and was a better NBA fit (Demarco was too short for a NBA PF and too slow for a SF) but if you compare the two Demarco in '98 averaged more points (21.1 to 18.7), more rebounds (9.0 to 6.5) and steals (1.4 to 1.2) while Rodney lead in blocks (0.7 to 0.5) and assists (1.5 to 1.4). Demarco also had a higher FG%, 3pt FG % and FT %.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374341]
Especially since you can flip this argument and say that since Melvin didn’t have the calibre team to win CUSA (when it was generally considered to be a weaker conference), what he did was more impressive. Two post season berths + no first round exits.
[/QUOTE]
And I see winning CUSA tourneys when CUSA was regarded as a stronger conference was more impressive. I think Watkins had the caliber teams to win CUSA, he just wasn’t able to (personal opinion).
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374341]
Regardless, Melvin did a great job and Bobby did as well in the early years. But, it is easier to succeed with a program that is already succeeding than to maintain or excell. Bobby has managed to regress. Melvin wasn’t here long enough to show what he could and couldn’t do.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Mullins left Melvin in good shape and Melvin took us a step further. IMO, Lutz took us slightly farther than Melvin did in winning CUSA championships and maintaining in the NCAA. Unfortunately we are now regressing and yes that lies on Bobby. I’m not trying to defend Bobby with this post and really wasn’t trying to compare the two. I thought Watkins did a great job while he was here but to assume that he’d have kept us going to the NCAA’s every year is a big assumption and IMO an incorrect one (not saying that you have done that but a lot of people seem to).
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374341]
We haven’t had a PG as good as Colson, you’re correct. But Bobby has had his fair share of equally or more talented teams. Melvin never had a player on the level of Rodney White.[/QUOTE]
I’m not saying that Bobby hasn’t had quality players but I disagree with Bobby having a more talented team than the 98 team. Personal opinion I guess but if I picked what I felt were the best 10 players from the past 15 years 5 of those are on the '98 team and Lutz doesn’t have a year w more than 4.
I guess Galen getting drafted doesnt count either.I had someone tell me today that we've never had a player drafted except for Cornbread. I'm serious, and this person has lived in Charlotte since 1988 AND HAS SUBSCRIBED TO THE OBSERVER THE ENTIRE TIME.
Unbelievable.
[QUOTE=Over40NINER;374394]I had someone tell me today that we’ve never had a player drafted except for Cornbread. I’m serious, and this person has lived in Charlotte since 1988 AND HAS SUBSCRIBED TO THE OBSERVER THE ENTIRE TIME.
Unbelievable.[/QUOTE]
For the uniformed…
1975 - George Jackson, 2nd round, 24th selection, Buffalo Braves
1977 - Cedric Maxwell, 1st round, Boston Celtics
1977 - Melvin Watkins, 4th round, Buffalo Braves
1978 - Lew Massey, 2nd round, 38th selection, Los Angeles Lakers
1980 - Chad Kinch, 1st round, 22nd selection, Cleveland Cavaliers
1981 - Donnie Koonce, 4th round, 89th selection, Detroit Pistons
1981 - George Devone, 5th round, 94th selection, Detroit Pistons
1982 - Bobby Potts, 6th round, 134th selection, Seattle Supersonics
1982 - Phil Ward, 7th round, 155th selection, Indiana Pacers
1984 - Melvin Johnson, 4th round, 71st selection, Chicago Bulls
1987 - Mike Milling, 5th round, 75th selection, Indiana Pacers
1992 - Henry Williams, 2nd round, 44th selection, San Antonio Spurs
1998 - Demarco Johnson, 2nd round, 38th selection, New York Knicks
1999 - Galen Young, 2nd round, 44th selection, Milwaukee Bucks
2001 - Rodney White, 1st round, 9th selection, Detroit Pistons
Recruiting is a coaching issue.Agreed. I guess I meant that I think he's done pretty good with the players considering their talent level. The post above me shows that we haven't had any of our players go to the NBA in 8 years, the longest drought listed. We're not getting very good recruits. What do you guys think of next years prospects?
^^ KJ, Chris, Shamari will be very, very, very good.
I think it will be the best team Charlotte has had in some time.
That is very easy to say but we shall see.
I honestly believe that if Curt or Eddie were in power conference, they would have been drafted. I look at some of the players in the NBA and wonder how they aren’t playing over here.
I honestly believe that if Curt or Eddie were in power conference, they would have been drafted. I look at some of the players in the NBA and wonder how they aren't playing over here.We should probably count Eddie as drafted. Chicago came out and said they would have drafted Eddie if they had a 2nd round pick that year.
I’ll replace Lutz for 60k a year. And anyone who wants to can bag on my coaching and say whatever they want to about me.
[QUOTE=Powerbait;374593]I’ll replace Lutz for 60k a year. And anyone who wants to can bag on my coaching and say whatever they want to about me.[/QUOTE]
I have better qualifications, as I beat you in college hoops on the way to Cincy.
I honestly believe that if Curt or Eddie were in power conference, they would have been drafted. I look at some of the players in the NBA and wonder how they aren't playing over here.
I disagree. If you can play at that level, it doesn’t matter what school you went to.
Just last night I watched some of the Kings / Nets game and there were players seeing minutes from the college power houses of:
Western Carolina
Cal State Fullerton
Rider
New Mexico
Austin Peay
[QUOTE=punkrockcowboy;374582]The post above me shows that we haven’t had any of our players go to the NBA in 8 years, the longest drought listed.[/QUOTE]
Let’s clarify that a little. In the early years of the NBA draft, teams would select players until they ran out of prospects. The 1960 draft went 21 rounds. By 1974, it had stabilized to 10 rounds, which held up until 1985, when the draft was shortened to seven rounds. By agreement with the National Basketball Players’ Association, the drafts from 1989 onward have been limited to two rounds, which gives undrafted players the chance to try out for any team.
Since the draft went to two rounds, only eight second-round picks have gone on to become All-Stars: Jazz guard Jeff Hornacek (1992), Pistons forward Dennis Rodman (1992), Lakers guard Cedric Ceballos (1995), Raptors center Antonio Davis (2001), Bucks guard Michael Redd (2004), Wizards guard Gilbert Arenas (2005), Spurs guard Manu Ginobili (2005) and Sonics forward Rashard Lewis (2005). In 2003, Detroit’s Ben Wallace and Indiana’s Brad Miller became the first undrafted players to make the All-Star team.
There have been several 49ers to get NBA free agent tryouts. But with only two rounds now, you’re a pretty outstanding player to be drafted.
1988 - Dan Plondke, Charlotte Hornets
1989 - Byron Dinkins, Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers & San Antonio Spurs
1990 - Cedric Ball, Los Angeles Clippers
1994 - Cedric Broadhurst, Charlotte Hornets
1997 - Bershaun Thompson, Charlotte Hornets
1999 - Kelvin Price, Charlotte Hornets
2000 - Sean Colson, Houston Rockets & Atlanta Hawks
2005 - Eddie Basden, Chicago Bulls
Ball, Basden, Colson and Dinkins all played on NBA teams as did Demarco Johnson, Chad Kinch, Cedric Maxwell and Rodney White.
The 49ers have been more successful on the foreign basketball courts, with many from the Lutz era. There’s nice money overseas and they are not bench-warming.
[B][COLOR=Green]D’Angelo Alexander
Eddie Basden[/COLOR][/B]
Cedric Ball
Ronnie Bellamy
Jack Bolly
Cedric Broadhurst
Byron Dinkins
Malru Dottin
Shanderic Downs
[B][COLOR=Green]E.J. Drayton[/COLOR][/B]
Tremaine Gardiner
Ray Gromolwicz
[B][COLOR=Green]Diego Guevera
Wayne Helliwell[/COLOR][/B]
Ponce James
Delano Johnson
Melvin Johnson
Alexander Kuehl
Jarvis Lang
Rodney Odom
Jermain Parker
[B][COLOR=Green]Brendan Plavich[/COLOR][/B]
Dan Plondke
[B][COLOR=Green]Kelvin Price[/COLOR][/B]
Versile Shaw
Leroy Smith
[B][COLOR=Green]Jobey Thomas[/COLOR][/B]
Henry Williams
Keith Williams
[B][COLOR=Green]Curtis Withers[/COLOR][/B]